tele for a cop...

[Bizman62]

I'd really like to see them in real life, there's a nagging in the back of my head saying that your photos don't do justice to the colours!

The size of the f-holes seems to be just right to me, apparently you've got the proportions right. Agreed. they're long and visible but they don't look like they'd risk the structural integrity.

[mistermikev]

28 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I'd really like to see them in real life, there's a nagging in the back of my head saying that your photos don't do justice to the colours!

The size of the f-holes seems to be just right to me, apparently you've got the proportions right. Agreed. they're long and visible but they don't look like they'd risk the structural integrity.

thanks for the encouragement biz.  if yer ever near az... def shoot me a pm.  would love to get some in person feedback on any of my builds - would be a real thrill for me. 

it's funny... on this one -in person the color really matches that inlay very well... but then in pictures, even without flash, it doesn't match quite as well altho you can see the sm color here or there in some of the flames.  

hehe, I'm very comfortable with the size of my f holes!  actually, the first version of this build (one where I cracked the top bending it) there wasn't quite enough support around the f hole.  It wasn't like you could break the wood with your finger... but you could flex it.  On this version I added some strategic supports to stiffen right under the f hole.  Pretty well supported now.

[Bizman62]

1 minute ago, mistermikev said:

On this version I added some strategic supports to stiffen right under the f hole. 

Is it a secret or did you use gauze? Or perhaps braces?

[mistermikev]

Just now, Bizman62 said:

Is it a secret or did you use gauze? Or perhaps braces?

no, just changed the semi hollow route and moved supports a little closer to edges.  also... moved the underside cut of the relief at the edges of the f hole a little closer to the edge.  basically there is only 3/16" of 1/8+-" thick top right there and it fans back out to full 1/4" thickness.

[mistermikev]

so... don't want to hog the spotlight here in this sub-forum... but had a few things I wanted to ask about.  

so... up until this body I had always finished with rattle cans.  first time using my compressor and gun to spray anything... have never gotten a final coat that was this smooth.  there is some very tiny ripple... but as a novice pretty pleased.

so... normally I would start at 600 or 800 afa wetsanding... but I'm thinking it might be better to jump to 1k right off the bat.  I had the finish almost perfectly smooth prior to this last shoot.  what say you?  start at 1k?

also thinking of snagging an air sander.  I know the convention on guitars is a wheel buffer... but lots of folks in the auto industry seem to get some pretty good finishes using an air sander.  a wheel buffer has a single use... whereas an air sander - I would get lots of mileage out of.  I have a 3" air sander already and it works pretty good with my compressor... thinking of snagging a low cfm 5" da sander.  what say you?  why aren't more guitar builders using an air sander for buffing?

Admittedly the best guitar finishes I've seen have all been a wheel buffer afa I know... or elbow grease... but lots of things like pianos, cars and epoxy pour table tops - not using a wheel buffer on those and yet folks get great finishes on them.  Most I've seen either use an air sander or an electric buffer.

any/all feedback encouraged.

[Bizman62]

If your finish is smooth already, there's no problem to start with a higher grit. If you find out that it doesn't seem to do the job you can always go down to a coarser grit.

I had to look what an air sander is and for what I understood it's similar to a (random) orbital sander, only lighter because there's no motor. I've used my random orbital with a hook and loop lambswool pad. A fellow builder uses an automotive polishing machine, the type with a large sponge attached to a slow angle grinder - he fastens it to the jaws of the workbench. If it's intended for polishing it will work, no matter what the convention says.

[Andyjr1515]

I can't advise on buffing, I'm afraid...none of my finishes are buffable - but just to say those 3 photos above are sparkly good.  Lovely stuff.

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

If your finish is smooth already, there's no problem to start with a higher grit. If you find out that it doesn't seem to do the job you can always go down to a coarser grit.

I had to look what an air sander is and for what I understood it's similar to a (random) orbital sander, only lighter because there's no motor. I've used my random orbital with a hook and loop lambswool pad. A fellow builder uses an automotive polishing machine, the type with a large sponge attached to a slow angle grinder - he fastens it to the jaws of the workbench. If it's intended for polishing it will work, no matter what the convention says.

thanks for the reply biz.  yes air sander aka da sander - for sanding wood there is nothing like it.  literally the best thing ever because they are light (as you mention) and you have a ton of control with them.  Used in the cabinet and auto industry.  In auto industry they use them all the time for wetsanding. 

slow angle grinder - that seems to be a popular option too.  thanks again for chiming in.

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I can't advise on buffing, I'm afraid...none of my finishes are buffable - but just to say those 3 photos above are sparkly good.  Lovely stuff.

thank you thank you 

so you've never buffed any of your finishes?  not even that gtr in your avatar?  wow, that's a lovely finish and I would have guessed it was buffed.

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

so you've never buffed any of your finishes?  not even that gtr in your avatar?  wow, that's a lovely finish and I would have guessed it was buffed.

You are most kind.  No - not even this one:

It's because I'm not clever/skilled/equipped enough to spray nitro, etc and so do all my gloss-finishes with old-fashioned polyurethane varnish, either wiped on or brushed on. 

And the problem with that method is that the toughness and light diffraction properties come from the underlying, flattened, layers of varnish but the gloss itself comes from the very top last couple of coats.  So if you try to buff, it quickly cuts through the gloss to the underlayers - which are matt from the flattening - and at best you get blotchy patches of satin finish and at worst you get contour lines like a topographical map 

 

[mistermikev]

6 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

You are most kind.  No - not even this one:

It's because I'm not clever/skilled/equipped enough to spray nitro, etc and so do all my gloss-finishes with old-fashioned polyurethane varnish, either wiped on or brushed on. 

And the problem with that method is that the toughness and light diffraction properties come from the underlying, flattened, layers of varnish but the gloss itself comes from the very top last couple of coats.  So if you try to buff, it quickly cuts through the gloss to the underlayers - which are matt from the flattening - and at best you get blotchy patches of satin finish and at worst you get contour lines like a topographical map 

 

wow, that' is about as glossy as it gets.  respect.

[Prostheta]

3 hours ago, mistermikev said:

thanks for the reply biz.  yes air sander aka da sander - for sanding wood there is nothing like it.  literally the best thing ever because they are light (as you mention) and you have a ton of control with them.  Used in the cabinet and auto industry.  In auto industry they use them all the time for wetsanding. 

slow angle grinder - that seems to be a popular option too.  thanks again for chiming in.

Yeah, we use a mixture of electrical ROS (Mirka DEROS) and pneumatic ROS (also Mirka). The pneumatics are great for Corian and solid surface polishing, so not too different any of that. I prefer my DEROS purely because I hate compressors

[ScottR]

7 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

A fellow builder uses an automotive polishing machine, the type with a large sponge attached to a slow angle grinder - he fastens it to the jaws of the workbench. If it's intended for polishing it will work, no matter what the convention says.

True statement. I have used an automotive buffer with excellent results. I tend to worry about it cutting through the edges of cavities so have just gone back to doing it by hand.

Micro mesh and this Meguiars:

https://www.meguiarsdirect.com/meguiars-m4-mirror-glaze-heavy-cut-cleaner-16oz.html

Once you get to the Meguiars, it takes surprising little time and effort even by hand.

And my stuff comes out pretty shiny......

SR

[Prostheta]

The only thing I would be careful of is the slip that buffing wheels generally tend to have. Angle grinders don't really stall out off the belt! It'll work. It'll KEEP WORKING. haha

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Yeah, we use a mixture of electrical ROS (Mirka DEROS) and pneumatic ROS (also Mirka). The pneumatics are great for Corian and solid surface polishing, so not too different any of that. I prefer my DEROS purely because I hate compressors

those is crazy fancy!  so... I used an air sander to shine up solid surface and it worked pretty good... esp for 3 d surfaces.  do you use either above on guitars?

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, ScottR said:

True statement. I have used an automotive buffer with excellent results. I tend to worry about it cutting through the edges of cavities so have just gone back to doing it by hand.

Micro mesh and this Meguiars:

https://www.meguiarsdirect.com/meguiars-m4-mirror-glaze-heavy-cut-cleaner-16oz.html

Once you get to the Meguiars, it takes surprising little time and effort even by hand.

And my stuff comes out pretty shiny......

SR

your elbow must be super human if your finishes are any indicator.  that stuff kills me. 

I have several of the different cuts of ... huh, it is spelled meguiars!  the one I don't have is the heavy cut but have been using turtle heavy for that.  should prob get the maguiars. 

very much appreciate your advice. 

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

The only thing I would be careful of is the slip that buffing wheels generally tend to have. Angle grinders don't really stall out off the belt! It'll work. It'll KEEP WORKING. haha

so... buffing wheels... they don't lock them in tight?  is that what you mean by slip?

[Prostheta]

I'm not sure about in general, however I've seen more than a couple of people have the belt relatively slack so that it gets up to speed by friction, but the wheel can't drag. I'm trying to recall who made one recently here (recently meaning, last five years) as I recall them having a slack belt system.

I haven't machine buffed anything larger than fretwire yet, but I imagine that a "catch" would be "pretty jarring" regardless of a slack belt or not.

[Prostheta]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

those is crazy fancy!  so... I used an air sander to shine up solid surface and it worked pretty good... esp for 3 d surfaces.  do you use either above on guitars?

 

I use my DEROS religiously. It's the only sander I have but also the only sander I need. It's usually to-hand for most things and its paid it's weight in gold. Plus, it's gold!

[mistermikev]

35 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I'm not sure about in general, however I've seen more than a couple of people have the belt relatively slack so that it gets up to speed by friction, but the wheel can't drag. I'm trying to recall who made one recently here (recently meaning, last five years) as I recall them having a slack belt system.

I haven't machine buffed anything larger than fretwire yet, but I imagine that a "catch" would be "pretty jarring" regardless of a slack belt or not.

ok, yeah that makes a lot of sense.  I hear a lot of talk about catching and how that would be potentially troublesome and I am gathering that that is the whole reason the wheel is so popular.  makes sense.  

[mistermikev]

20 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

 

I use my DEROS religiously. It's the only sander I have but also the only sander I need. It's usually to-hand for most things and its paid it's weight in gold. Plus, it's gold!

yeah, those are really nice.  pretty much all the benefits of a da sander with the ease of an elec sander. 

[Prostheta]

The ergonomics are great as well. I hate tools that are top-heavy such as plunge routers. I like a tool to have a low centre of gravity so that it feels (and is) planted on the workpiece. Both for safety and ensuring that the work is performed without hitch or effort. Physics and ergonomics are a big part of good woodworking.

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

The ergonomics are great as well. I hate tools that are top-heavy such as plunge routers. I like a tool to have a low centre of gravity so that it feels (and is) planted on the workpiece. Both for safety and ensuring that the work is performed without hitch or effort. Physics and ergonomics are a big part of good woodworking.

that is a very good point.  tis why I don't care for my orbital sander... or any of the electric ones that aren't $600+.  the hand is so high off the material you just don't have control.  

[Prostheta]

That's exactly why I have never liked the Festool equivalents. The closest you get to a DEROS is a pneumatic ROS in terms of profile. The direct drive brushless motor in the DEROS was designed with that application in mind, so it's as compact as it gets. Anyway. Back on topic?

[mistermikev]

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

That's exactly why I have never liked the Festool equivalents. The closest you get to a DEROS is a pneumatic ROS in terms of profile. The direct drive brushless motor in the DEROS was designed with that application in mind, so it's as compact as it gets. Anyway. Back on topic?

no worries - in my threads derails are encouraged!  this is exactly why I setup my first post with all the most relevant build pics... I want to meandor and encourage meandoring because I'm certain it's not only me learning things!