tsl602000 Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 yes the quality of the routes really jumps out at me in the picture, even if they will be covered, i think it would be hard to live with the fact that every time you pick up the guitar youll think about a glaring flaw you left in it Although I agree with Drak, I must say that Jeff is trying and definately is improving. And you, Truerussian, I don't think your comments are appropriate if you take a close look at your guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVDL Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 yes the quality of the routes really jumps out at me in the picture, even if they will be covered, i think it would be hard to live with the fact that every time you pick up the guitar youll think about a glaring flaw you left in it just my $.02 NO COMMENT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 C'mon, guys, let's not fall into this kind of thing again... I think it looks good. Sure, go ahead and clean up those routes, it'll make it look more professional like a good "custom gutar", right? How bad is the glue line in the center? With all the excess around it, I can't really see all that well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 C'mon, guys, let's not fall into this kind of thing again... We're defending a long time forum member here. He took alot of **** and rather than being a stuborn ass, he took it as a man and works hard to improve his work. I really don't think he needs that kinda "advice" from a noob who can't do any better himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 ...and were giving constructive criticism, I don't see anyone jumping on him in a negative way, so wuddup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litchfield Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 As far as the interior routs go....I glued on the top. I did decide that I shoud use a template or something similar next time. It looks ok freehand, but I could have done better. Just shows ya. I didnt have a good idea how to make a template, so I modeled after the warmoth diagram: As for the tele bridge pickup, I played a mahogany thinline tele and liked it. I dont know how the Tone pros will affect that, or even the neck woods. And thanx to all for the comments. I still need to sand the sides, if those look a bit rough. And the glue line still needs sanded a bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 This is how I free-hand the edges of my interior chambers. I first trace the outline of my chambers in pen. Then I use a big 1/2" straight cutter bit to hog out all the 'innerds', staying away from the pen lines by about 1/4", but hogging most of the depth of the core wood first. Leave yourself an 'island' in the center if you need it to stabilize the router base for the wider areas. For the straight inside edges, I just clamp a straight piece of scrap wood on the line and route away, using the bearing on the pattern cutter bit to ride along the straight edge down to about 3/16. That takes care of that. Then for all the curves, I set the bit to only be cutting about 3/16", going slow and taking very thin passes until the line is reached. Only cutting 3/16" depth allows you a -lot- more control over the bit and router compared to trying to route, say, the full depth or anything deeper than 1" on your initial pass to meet your line. Once I meet the pen line, then I drop the router down and use my freehand cut as my guide for the bearing for the rest of the trip down. The way to get a smooth clean line is to only take 3/16" on the first pass and meet your pen line slowly, ease into it pass after pass getting closer to it each time. I always hand-sand it when done routing to smooth it out a bit. Also I recommend sealing the wood lightly with something, just a real light sealer coat of shellac or lac or something. Very light coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 ...and were giving constructive criticism, I don't see anyone jumping on him in a negative way, so wuddup? I was commenting on the fact that TSL, Alex, and Weezerboy, three well established members of this site, were openly ridiculing TrueRussian's work. What Truerussian said wasn't offensive IMO. He was pointing out that in his opinion, it isn't worth cutting corners because you will always know that you did, even if others didn't know that. He was reinforcing what Drak said about professionally built acoustics with his view of why Litch should neaten up the routs. This is a valid point, and one on which I agree with him. Constructive criticism is a great thing. We were giving Litch constructive criticism, as was TrueRussian. Others were not paying that same respect to Truerussian, and proceeded to openly ridicule his work as a brash response to his misunderstood statement. I don't mean to inflame, and I'm trying to be civil. Maybe I missed something, but if Truerussian is not allowed to give constructive criticism despite the fact that he is still learning himself, then the entire forum community has lost its purpose. If only custom builders can express their opinions of the work of others, we might as well make this a 9-5 Monday through Friday "ask the experts" help line. It is the fact that anyone of any skill level can express an unbiased opinion of custom guitars that forms an integral backbone in the very structure of this web community. Dan D skibum5545 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litchfield Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Sanding would have improved. I did go past my pen line in some places, and I felt safest leaving them a little rough rather than trying to touch it up and risk a FUBAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 well said,skibum...but which criticism do you think litchfield would rather hear...drak's or truerussian's? itis like back in high school when you see a nerd making fun of another nerd for being a nerd...it is the height of hypocrisy,don't you think? the only reason litchfield is being held to a higher standard than most is because he wishes to become a custom builder and sell his work,so those who have a high standard of workmanship offer their advice...truerussian does not meet the criteria of one who can critisize sloppy routs when he,himself,is guilty of sloppy routs by the way i am not presuming to moderate this...this is just my opinion,and your opinion is just as valid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litchfield Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Thank you wes. And everyone else. I definately have some work to go, but tell me, do think its better than my previous work so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Thank you wes. And everyone else. I definately have some work to go, but tell me, do think its better than my previous work so far? yes...definately no doubt about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Definitely no doubt about it. As for templates, I made one for my chambers, and even though I'm not 100% sure I'm not going to make them a bit bigger, the end result was still fairly clean. All I did is rough out the shapes using a scroll saw, then used a rasp to bring it out to the line, since I used MDF. It only took a little more time than freehanding with a saw or a router, but didn't introduce the stress or worry of f---ing it up by losing control of the tool. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I definately have some work to go, but tell me, do think its better than my previous work so far? YES, thankyou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Although I agree with Drak, I must say that Jeff is trying and definately is improving. And you, Truerussian, I don't think your comments are appropriate if you take a close look at your guitar. painters critics are ralrely painters, just because i cant do better doesnt mean i cant critizise, and besides hese been doing it for a while, and whould know better then to not use freehand routes, and i have gone over them later, and smoothed them out a bit . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Critics of painters are actually quite often painters. Sometimes they happen to be more famous as critics than as painters. Just as, contrary to popular notion, most literature critics are writers (ie. other than their criticisms). They're just not famous ones, due either to talent or chance. However, I don't think the point was that you're not allowed to criticise. I think most people here would grant you that right. It's just that the tone might not have come out right; but that's OK, tomorrow's another day. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 if it came off as arrogant then, sorry it was ment as constructive criticism, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litchfield Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I will be making some hollowing templates in the near future. And for all who have help and criticized, thank you again. Perry, all of this is a result of things you (and others) said. Thank YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Professional acoustic builders ALWAYS inspect others' guitars armed with a little flexable mirror and a flashlight, they spend more time looking at the interior (bracing, glue joints, etc.) of the build than they do the outside. The real story of an acoustic is told from what you see inside when you know what you're looking at/for. Well, kind of. However, there is nothing more guaranteed to offend an acoustic builder than getting hold of his guitar and poking your nose straight into the soundhole to check for glue. It's the musical equivalent of kicking the tyres when you buy a car. The test of an acoustic guitar is it's sound, not how much squeeze out you left round the kerfed lining or braces. The same should be true of any guitar - if it sounds great then rough interior routes etc can be ignored. That said, it is nice to try and get even the insides looking beautiful, if a little **** retentive and creepy (I'm allowed to say that, I do it ) from The Builders by Longfellow: In the elder days of Art, Builders wrought with greatest care Each minute and unseen part ; For the Gods see everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litchfield Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Now after I omitted the f hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I was commenting on the fact that TSL, Alex, and Weezerboy, three well established members of this site, were openly ridiculing TrueRussian's work. What Truerussian said wasn't offensive IMO. He was pointing out that in his opinion, it isn't worth cutting corners because you will always know that you did, even if others didn't know that. He was reinforcing what Drak said about professionally built acoustics with his view of why Litch should neaten up the routs. This is a valid point, and one on which I agree with him. Constructive criticism is a great thing. We were giving Litch constructive criticism, as was TrueRussian. Others were not paying that same respect to Truerussian, and proceeded to openly ridicule his work as a brash response to his misunderstood statement. I don't mean to inflame, and I'm trying to be civil. Maybe I missed something, but if Truerussian is not allowed to give constructive criticism despite the fact that he is still learning himself, then the entire forum community has lost its purpose. If only custom builders can express their opinions of the work of others, we might as well make this a 9-5 Monday through Friday "ask the experts" help line. It is the fact that anyone of any skill level can express an unbiased opinion of custom guitars that forms an integral backbone in the very structure of this web community. Oh give me a break. I didn't like the tone of that post. Mosts of his last posts have this "know it all" tone anyway. If you can't make a straight neck and a decent rout yourself you should shut up about somebody not making straight routs. It'd pretty much be like me criticizing Clavin's inlays because my inlay work suck ass! Now back to the topic, before I start a real rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanKirk Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Thank you wes. And everyone else. I definately have some work to go, but tell me, do think its better than my previous work so far? I'm too new at this to have an opinion with much weight but the shape of your tele body looks excellent to me You definately look like your improving more and more. I like it and am looking forward to seeing it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 It'd pretty much be like me criticizing Clavin's inlays because my inlay work suck ass! I'm allowed to not be able to play baseball worth a damn and yet still think the Detroit Tigers suck ass, too. Truerussian wasn't criticizing as a "sour grapes" attack, or as a deeply subconscious psychological response to his current inferiority as a luthier, but as a third party commenting on what COULD BE IMPROVED about another luthier's work. However, this is an argument over tone of voice on a web forum. I think that none of us can accurately vouch for Truerussians intentions better than Truerussian. Dan D skibum5545 PS Litch, It's a really nice guitar. I especially like the look of the heel shape. What kind of neck are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I'm allowed to not be able to play baseball worth a damn and yet still think the Detroit Tigers suck ass, too. Truerussian wasn't criticizing as a "sour grapes" attack, or as a deeply subconscious psychological response to his current inferiority as a luthier, but as a third party commenting on what COULD BE IMPROVED about another luthier's work. whatever, but this is not the baseball forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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