fryovanni

Something like metal binding? I saw some thin strips (1/16" thick or so x 1/4" tall) at either a Lowes or Home Depot once apon a time and wondered how it would work as binding. If I was to try that I would probabaly use .02"(or a BWB layup) black fiber side and bottom purfs. That would probabaly make for a nice transition, and make for easier finishing.

Very nice results! I bet the owner was happy as a clam Rich

Hope you have a great birthday my friend

Neil, I dug up a couple pictures of a project I am working on that has a hand rubbed finish (French Polish, Shellac). I sand to 240, then I fill with epoxy, cut that back and level with 800 grit, then go to building sessions with hand rubbed shellac. After the building sessions(which is actually where the guitar pictured is at) I level sand with 1500 and work my way up to 12000 grit and buff. One nice thing about shellac is it is dirt cheap to get set up. Shellac flakes for about 15-20 guitars will run $15, Denatured alcohol or Everclear is used to cut the shellac(again not too expensive), Extra virgin Olive oil(a little goes a long ways), old cut up white T-shirts, and wool(second hand store, old sweater lasts for many guitars), Sand paper, and I like a dense felt block, and finally Epoxy coating(not glue, this is finish, it dries much slower and is also much thinner) which probabaly costs as much as all my other supplies(but a table spoon or two will fill a guitar, so it is still relatively cheap per. guitar). The picture should give you an idea as to how important fill and prep is, as the finish is only built up it has not been leveled or polished(ruff so to speak). Look at the color also, this is one of the lighter shellacs(you can get slightly clearer), but true oil would introduce less color. Here are a few better shots of the body, look at the Maple to see how the color of the shellac looks(it is pretty white maple binding). link1 link2 link3 link4 Hope that gives you some answers, and a better idea of what you can expect from hand rubbed a finish. You likely can do a better job than me finishing, as finishing is really not my strongest suit . Peace,Rich

Check the date on your Titebond, it does have a shelf life and will go bad. I would use a scraper to clean the surfaces, and the suggestion about making cauls that was given above sounds good. I doubt the problem was with the wood, as a properly prepaired joint(you would surface these clean) would not be effected. Parrafin can be a bugger if it gets in the way during finishing though. A couple things that could be mentioned about prepping a glue joint for Titebond. One freshly surfaced is important. You want to surface the joint faces shortly before glueing. After a surface is prepped oils and such from the wood start to make their way back to the surface, so freshly prepped is going to give you a better surface. Lightly wiping the prepped surface with a moist rag will help when working with Titebond. Titebond needs a very tight fitting joint(Titebond is a lousy filler). Be careful not to use too little glue and starve the joint, too much glue makes the joint hard to manage during clamping(either way be sure to re snug up your clamps again after a few minutes, and monitor your alignment several times over the first hour or so it is clamped).

Here is a link to LMI's descriptions of different finishes-link Most of the oil finishes you will find are polymerized linseed or tung oil. Basically a varnish/oil blend. The varnish is what builds and provides a film finish. To me the oil is not really something I want in a finish on my instruments (my logic is really simple, tap a piece of oil soaked wood, it sounds dead as a doornail. That is my only logic in not wanting much oil penetrating my instruments* only my opinion be it right or wrong). Shellac(wash coat) is a light surface finish that can also be used as a sealer to limit penetration of oils. Oil finishes can have the best look in terms of allowing the natural look of the wood to come through very well. Most shellac has a more color, and is not going to have that clarity. That can be good or bad (I often want a bit of color from shellac). These finishes do not have the durabiity that you get with many other sprayed finishes, but they are easier to repair in most cases. Both Shellac and Polymerized oil finishes are designed to be applied thin and build to a light finish(you do not brush these on heavy as they will not cure properly). You can grain fill if you prefer a smooth finish(Z-poxy fill is a nice and easy), or you can use them without filling also. Any film finish catalized Polyester to True Oil will not stop the transfer of moisture vapor. They all offer great liquid moisture protection. Depending on the finish and how evenly it is applied you will slow the transfer of vapor at different rates. No matter what your goal should be to apply an even coat, as this optimizes the protection to thickness ratio. Thin very even film finish protects as well as a thick sloppy finish. Good surface preperation is very important with hand rubbed finishes, and because they are so thin great care should be taken to not sand/polish through them. Rich

You could use a printed computer generated fret layout(look up online fret placement calculators, or use drafting software), then check it with your ruler. Things can go wrong with printed layouts (some printers scale 1-3% off, paper can distort), but as long as you have a good drawing to start with it can be more accurate than a ruler. You can also buy machine cut templates, which are usually extreamly accurate. I have found most marked rulers are hit and miss for accuracy at a very high level, etched rules sometimes are much better, slotted seem to be very accurate(but your slots only allow you a certain degree of accuracy, because you can only put so many slots in a ruler). Then you have to consider what you are marking with(it has a thickness) and how your slotting saw blade aligns with the mark you make. It is pretty easy to be off .03125" with ruler and marking unless you are really careful, That is close to the width of a fret tang (which is about .023"). If you did get it that close and you noticed a problem, you could shape the fret crown to counter some of that innacuracy(although I doubt most would notice if you were within a tangs width, since even spot on is not going to be perfectly intonated up and down the neck). So accuracy is hugely important. 1/64" off may not be problematic, but it is not easy to hold that level of accuracy unless you use an accurate method of marking and cutting.

Now I think the discussion is getting somewhere. There is no true or false answer to your question. There are small differences, how small has a lot to do with the style and player. Your effects and amp are going to easily walk all over these small differences, with a small adjustment. Not to take the wind out of the theory you are trying to develop in your head, but it is worth taking in the big picture, before you convince yourself there is more there than what is really there. Leave that to the people who come up with the marketing angles to sell guitars. Skulls, points, and all that B-horror film/ dungeons and dragons stuff. Probably will work wonders on one of these metal guitars. Rich

I have a Colt, and it is a nice solid laminate router. I prefer My Hitachi router for most work, mainly because the power and weight make it nice and stable, plus it holds its setting better. Biggest downside to a lam. trimmer is they don't lock in as well, but the Colt is about the best laminate trimmer I have found. Good buy Peace,Rich

More likely to be closer to two years. If you own a mill, and have logs, have the space, are willing to put in some work. It is worth while if you want to use a lot of the wood or can sell the extra, and recoupe some of your expense. You will only get a certain percentage of the wood that would be suitable for instruments(assuming you have fairly good logs to work with), so it is really more worth while if you have an outlet for the extra lower grade wood. If you have a mill though, and tooling to process logs I am sure you know all of this already. After you have dropped and cleaned up the log and extra limb wood and what not. De-bark the log, seal the end grain if your waiting a spell to mill it. Mill the log, stack and sticker the log in a dry well ventilated area, be sure the end grain is well sealed. Let it set for about a year per. inch.(couple years for 8/4 stock, give or take 6 months depending on your climate),maybe check up on it to make sure bugs are not making it their new home. When it gets down around 12-14% moisture content, you can bring it into a warmer heated space, and bring it on down to around 6-8%(air drying 8/4 stock should take about 6 months give or take a couple months). Then you can plane the wood to square up the warpage, twisting and uneven shrinkage. Then you can start thinking about making a body blank. For one body blank this would be a silly process. A kiln dried piece of Alder, Maple, Ash, or Khaya that you can hand select to get just what you want will run between $3-7 bd. ft(body takes about 4bd. ft.) at least that is retail in my area. If your lumber retails for twice that in your area, it is still not worth going through all that work for one blank. Peace,Rich

Happy Birthday You are a lot more patient than me. I grabbed my learners permit at 15, my license at 16. You probably saved yourself a ton of money on insurance, gas and so forth(thousands of dollars) . Rich

Maybe this would help -topic

There you go, we have a winner

Well, thanks for the reply It is with a neck-thru which I can't /really/ make angled, I know it's possible except I'm a further down the line. The two questions that I jsut wanted confirmation on are: So is recessing an edge any different from recessing any other trem? If I can have it recessed, does it make up for the action lost by not having the neck angled? Thanks in advance What type of edge are you using?(there are several trems models that are called "edge"). You are learning a good lesson about neck throughs. You have to plan ahead fully before starting, not a design that can be done without having all your ducks in a row. Since many "edge" trems are normally recessed a bit, you have to give information about the model or nobody is going to be able to help. There are tutorials on routing for some models You can and SHOULD draw your guitar up, full size, in profile. This will tell you EXACTLY how the strings will align. You should have done this before making your first cut(at least that is what just about everyone else does). There is a tutorial on how to go about drawing this up. If you don't put in the work to do this, your winging it, and your guitar may be a disaster or you may by sheer dumb luck make it work.

You could probably go check the OLF for this topic, I believe it has come up before. As far as your liability for work done, it is better to have everything clearly stated in a written contract. A basic invoice is not going to due much good, although it will make for a nice document come tax time (I assume you are paying taxes on your income as a business, since you have taken this beyond the hobby level). You are not going to remove your liability with these documents (your work is your work, if damages are done due to your services you are liable. One can't enter into a good faith arrangement, and not satisfy their end), but it will hopefully move you away from just he said she said in small claims court. You can define the limits of your warrenty, and help define what is in the scope of your service(hopefully a judge will be able to understand or believe you that something was "normal" wear or "not altered by your service" (never really know if a judge is going to have a clue about the product or its useage). Rich

I have added a quick coat of shellac to the interior and I have done it without. Really there is little difference from what I can tell. That would be expected though, because the only thing a finish is going to do as far as the effects of humidity changes is slow the process a bit. If you don't subject a guitar to radical changes in humidity it will never make much difference. If keep your acoustic in its case then go out and play for a few hours(potentially outdoor events or what have you), then it may slow unwanted changes over than short haul. If there is an advantage I suspect that would be it. It is more work. Some customers would view it as "not traditional", although few would consider unfinshed as such. For those reasons there is little advantage to a builder to finish the inside of a guitar. Functionally the potential to do harm seems slight(a light coat of shellac has little effect on the shape of the surface, weight or stiffness). The potential for benifit will occur only under conditions that are extream, and short in duration(something we try to limit from happening, so this benifit may not be seen by most users). That is my take on the subject, FWIW. Rich

Todd, I didn't want to imply you had to use or not use one set over another. I was just wanting to point out that you can get or make up sets that are very close to balanced across the neck. Some sets that are offered are not put together based on a well balanced set, but for the wants or preferences of certain players. As far as the concept of balancing the string tension, it is a good thing obviously. I can't say for sure if a heavily out of balance set would or would not distort a neck over time, but I suppose there would be a greater chance of it happening (although reasonably close would certainly not seem likely to cause a problem). It is a good oportunity to look over string construction, scale, tension, density, elasticity, intonation. At least if you had never had a chance to do so. Rich

They offer many "off the rack sets" some will be closer than others. They are making up the sets to fit a customer wants, not best balanced set. This page has more info on what they make and how to calculate what your tension will be based on the scale you are using. link You can select strings that are very close to equal in tension, and that is a very cool byproduct of how good string manufacturers are today. Rich

String tension will be very close across the set of strings, at least if you are using a set of modern strings. They are built with this in mind. You can have a look at the specs (tension to pitch, gauge and such) on the Daddario web site. They also have information on how strings work, are built etc... It is worth while to go do some research, as strings are such a huge part of your instruments. Peace,Rich

I love those rules for marking, just makes life easy. Good measuring tools allow me to have confidence when cutting. That allows me to ruff cut closer(less work finishing up). It also is really helpful for making and checking jigs. Other tools like machinsts squares, machinist square and thickness blocks, straight edges, calipers and so forth are all great. Rich

The whole idea behind using dishes is to minimise focused stress. By that I mean at the joint itself, and matching the curvature of the shaped braced to the shape of the rim. If you used a flat soundboard, you would want to match the rim also. If you are talking about forcing the soundboard into a radiused shape vs using flat braces. Nothing wrong with either. However, the radius has advantages. If a top is flat, then becomes dryer than it was when assembled it will pull on the sides creating stress, with a radius it will flatten a bit. If a flat top becomes wetter than it was when assembled it will pop in or out(under string tension you would expect out), with a radius it just flexes a bit more(with the radius it was given). This movement is totally normal and will happen. Your top will experience this expansion and contraction creating stresses no matter what. A radiused top will also have more strength than a flat top, which seems to be nice. As Setch mentioned a soundboard will also face string tension, and rotating forces when strung up and tuned. Stress is what a soundboard is all about, there is no way to get away from that. You can just build it to deal with stresses as well as you can. As far as using heat to form a top. You could, but I doubt the top would be better suited to content with forces acting on it. Even if you left it unstrung it will face natural dimensional changes that will introduce the stresses you tried to relieve, and then it may or may not contend with them well. Also heating wood to a high enough temperature to allow bending does create a small loss of strength, repeated heating will significantly weaken wood. That would be a consideration. Just in case that brings to mind a question about "baking" tops. The level of heat is not high enough to break down the lignun(it is more of an overdrying process), and it seems that at least initially there is an increase in strength. Slightly overdrying a top during assembly may aslo have the benifit of reducing the chances the top will want to pull with as much force against the rim if it shrinks due to drying(tops like to split if that becomes drastic). That is just what my understanding is, for what it is worth. Rich

Those crazy traditions

A hand plane is good, a jointer can do the job, a flat sanding block. Out of curiosity, why 1/8"? Are you going for a look on the side of the headstock? If not, you could use a thinner veneer, and have to remove less material(easier to thin a veneer than a headstock). Good luck, Rich

Rich, I understand what you are saying and I have had that problem ( mainly with ambrosia maple because it is a stain and not grain), but I would not sell that to anyone as Book matched. Maybe as slip matched which is what it looks like at best, but I wouldn't call that book matched. Sorry I'm not trying to be negative but, It just don't JIVE with me as to what I am seeing in the pic. They are still nice pieces but not as a joined top in my opinion. Sincerely, Mike Mike, I see the same things you are seeing. It is possible he has one of the pieces flipped over, or that whoever cut that may have had a sloppy cut. Then again it could have also been a wonderful cut, shoot this may even have something to do with how the wood was surfaced after recieving it, it is possible to get that look from very flat wood also. Depending on the spacing of the growth rings, and how flat the grain is to the surface. Flatsawn has never been idea for getting a flawless mirror image(homogenous quarter is easy). It is certainly not slipmatched, and I see no reason why it would be wrong to sell it as bookmatched(it is cut bookmatched). The grade of the set and price should have reflected the look. This is why quartersawn curly maple with even vertical grain and full even figure sells for the highest price. It makes the most homogenous match. As far as you selling that set(if you had cut it), I am sure your price would reflect the look, but I doubt you would call it something it is not(slip vs bookmatched flatsawn). I think it is a cool looking top. Make sure you have the faces correct, nothing flipped. Then trace the shape of your body on the top (taking into account where hardware and such will be placed), and see how it will look as a finished product. Peace,Rich

It can be really hard to get a good bookmatch with very flatsawn wood. That could be what you are seeing. Even the best resaw is going to burn about .060" and very flat wood sometimes looses a tight match.