Juntunen Guitars Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 I know we have been over this. You bring up a good point I was taught that acoustics should be able to be disassembled and worked on. I agree with that. For the S9 I just can't use hide glue and have it come apart while packed in a trailer or a car trunk or under a bus traveling across the States from gig to gig. Don't tell me it won't because I just watched an epoxied top separate from a body . I have been at this a long time and seen a lot of silly things happen. Epoxy comes apart just as hard as Titebond comes apart. Only hide glue comes apart easily. The same amount of heat that it takes to make Titebond let go will make epoxy let go. Epoxy doesn't respond to steam but the heat from the steam will loosen it. I try to only use epoxy where I do not want water introduced to the joint. Fretboards. I have used it on neck joints recently because it has the ability to span gaps and voids. If I am not going to use traditional methods (read: Hide Glue) then I am going to use the best technical solution I can. I prefer Titebond for everything but there are cases where epoxy is appropriate. Go back through my builds and see how much Cocobolo I use. Over the years I have seen all types of Cocobolo... I have pieces that are dry and after a little acetone Titebond works fine. However I have pieces that Acetone pulls all the oils to the surface and makes Titebond impossible. Now I try not to use these pieces until they are drier (which can take years) but when I have to epoxy is the only solution. I would love to build a Single Cut that is LP like and use hide glue for the joints and fish glue for the frets but can't see me getting to it anytime soon. Good point on the hide glue coming apart. That's why I only used it on joints that would need to eventually like a dovetail joint otherwise I use titebond. I way have to try epoxy at some point. I've seen you use it for electric set necks which seemed like a good idea. I have never used it as glue though because the one time I did I had to remove a board that slipped while glueing and it just wouldn't let go cleanly at all so I haven't used it since. Might have just been the stuff I used though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Good point on the hide glue coming apart. That's why I only used it on joints that would need to eventually like a dovetail joint otherwise I use titebond. I way have to try epoxy at some point. I've seen you use it for electric set necks which seemed like a good idea. I have never used it as glue though because the one time I did I had to remove a board that slipped while glueing and it just wouldn't let go cleanly at all so I haven't used it since. Might have just been the stuff I used though. The main problem I have with epoxy other than mess is cost. There is no entry level epoxy worthy... Z-Poxy is ok... T-88 is the best low cost epoxy I have used. But so far nothing comes close to West Systems. I was always hesitant to make the investment so I stayed away from really good epoxies. Now that I have made the commitment I am enjoying the returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Like I said, the only problem I ever found with West System epoxy in its most basic form is the short open time for "reasonable" quantities due to thermal runaway. I'm sure that the many other additives WS make in combination with slower hardeners might make it easier as a finish, but I find it like trying to flick a particularly gooey bogie. It just gets bigger and messier, spreads forever, sticks to everything and just when you think it is gone you find some between your fingers. Joking aside, it is fantastic stuff but needs your fullest concentration and a plan of action. You might want to check out the 207 Hardener as an alternative to the "standard" 205. I eyeballed it myself as I think it would look perfect for laying a carbon fibre fingerboard to achieve the maximum strength and "glassiness". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Honestly, I don't feel 'cost' is all that significant a factor. I've never had real trouble with thermal runaway, but I tend to mix up a small batch (weighed exactly using a digital scale) and use it pretty much immediately. I'm used to using titebond and getting more comfortable with hot hide, so I tend to work fast by default, and use gloves. As a cost comparison based on local prices: Z-poxy 30 minutes, 237ml: 20 euros West System 600 gr: 22 euros West System 1200 gr: 38 euros Titebond is about half the price, volume for volume. Still looking for a local place that carries the 207 hardener, but the 105/205 kits (boat supply stores) are easily found and good value. The amount of actual glue per guitar is maybe a dollar or two. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Honestly, I don't feel 'cost' is all that significant a factor. I've never had real trouble with thermal runaway, but I tend to mix up a small batch (weighed exactly using a digital scale) and use it pretty much immediately. I'm used to using titebond and getting more comfortable with hot hide, so I tend to work fast by default, and use gloves. As a cost comparison based on local prices: Z-poxy 30 minutes, 237ml: 20 euros West System 600 gr: 22 euros West System 1200 gr: 38 euros Titebond is about half the price, volume for volume. Still looking for a local place that carries the 207 hardener, but the 105/205 kits (boat supply stores) are easily found and good value. The amount of actual glue per guitar is maybe a dollar or two. Maybe. Good to know.Over here it is well over $100 dollars to get started. That is with a digital scale and enough resin and hardener to actually get some stuff done. Once the initial investment is over it is not so bad. Thermal Runaway happens when I mix up enough to do three or four glue ups at one time... I just need to adjust my batches so they do not runaway. Also need to stage my clamping better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 And it has a name... meet the Sentinel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Control plate start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Did you cut the curves in that plate and put maple veneer between the pieces and glue it back together? Very cool! I like the font on the plate and on the name decal on the headstock. I'm not convinced you should go with both on the same guitar. I'm not really disturbed by it...but I'm not convinced either. I can't see them both at the same time here, but one will be able to do so when holding the guitar. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Nice touch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Did you cut the curves in that plate and put maple veneer between the pieces and glue it back together? Very cool! I like the font on the plate and on the name decal on the headstock. I'm not convinced you should go with both on the same guitar. I'm not really disturbed by it...but I'm not convinced either. I can't see them both at the same time here, but one will be able to do so when holding the guitar. SR The control plate is ebony with maple veneer stuffed in it. Even with a CNC machine there is always a place for a good scroll saw. The decal on the back of the headstock was so I don't forget which one it is... ha I ordered some new smaller end mills so I may try the Space Looking font on the headplates in the future and basically bail on decals all together. I like water decals but they are a pita to work with. You have to let them dry for a full day or more before clearing over them. Then to make them invisible you have to build up finish over them. Just not what I want to do... I am also going to start experimenting with a name plate on the headstocks as an alternative to letters carved in the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diffidentia Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Looking sharp as always, RAD. I'm loving the colors on this one; the contrast in the neck lams, the scroll saw magic with the control plate... Good stuff! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntinDoug Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Yeeeees... The "assimilation" is nearly complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Yeeeees... The "assimilation" is nearly complete. You are right Doug... This is the last fully hand built guitar and I still managed to stick some CNC work on it somewhere. I am not sure how I worked before without my machine. I have it assembled now so pics on the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Lets finish this thread.... I know these are posted in the 2013 thread but this thread should be complete. Sentinel Maple neck with Ebony laminates Gabon Ebony Fretboard Gabon Ebony top and headplate Limba Body Locking tuners Hipshot Bridge Guitar Logistics Diablo Humbuckers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Nice to see this again. I've always felt it was one of the classiest looking ones you've built. It looks like it ought to sound massive. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 It is an incredible instrument. It has sustain and clarity that puts it at the top of my 30 something guitar collection. (They are all special but some are more special than others) The main reason for posting the finished shots is I really wanted to make sure the thread was complete. This was the last completely hand built S9 guitar I did. I think I did a really decent job documenting the build process as well... full of tips and tricks. To often our search function fails us so having it bumped for a few days will be nice for the noobs I hope. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 GOTM for sure! no, seriously... I ****in want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I think I did a really decent job documenting the build process as well... full of tips and tricks. So that comment got me curious enough to revisit the whole thread.....and it is truly a great thread. Very full of info for those getting started. I understand the reason for doing a multi-guitar thread when you build a buttload of guitars each year, but man I miss your complete one guitar start to finish threads. It is so much easier to find info related to specific stages of the build than in those all year long threads. I recommend we pin this one. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I think I did a really decent job documenting the build process as well... full of tips and tricks. So that comment got me curious enough to revisit the whole thread.....and it is truly a great thread. Very full of info for those getting started. I understand the reason for doing a multi-guitar thread when you build a buttload of guitars each year, but man I miss your complete one guitar start to finish threads. It is so much easier to find info related to specific stages of the build than in those all year long threads. I recommend we pin this one. SR Yeah good thing about me scaling back to a few builds a year means I can go back to single guitar threads. However I am pretty sure that the CNC makes my newer build threads much less useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 GOTM for sure! no, seriously... I ****in want it. Ha! No you can't have it! It is mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renkenstein Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Glad this got bumped. Great thread, RAD. I enjoyed your methods and process flow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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