Bizman62 Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 Poplar has been widely used for painted guitars due to the greenish hue. It's a little heavier than alder, otherwise pretty similar both for workability and tone. The weight and grain pattern can vary from piece to piece as with any wood. The ones you have look like "wood" to me, no fancy flames but a solid grain pattern. They look like been sawn from a relatively thin tree, rather slab sawn than quarter sawn. That may or may not pose issues such as guttering, it depends on how well dried the wood is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 I wouldn't say that it is about how dry the wood is unless we're talking initial drying, it's more about how different an environmental moisture content the wood will experience between seasons. Yes, cupping (guttering) is common when you have tight growth rings close to the pith/heart like that, and that growth ring pattern will keep moving in and out with and without environmental moisture. Poplar is soft though (pretty much like Aspen/Haapa) which means the Limba/Korina back will present more resistance to the deforming force of the Poplar top (is it a top on a Korina back?). The cheat I use to see if wood is dry enough between transport moisture (12-15%) and indoor use (6-9%) is to press your boot sole pattern into a pile of freshly-cut dust. If it's a non-oily/pitchy wood, being able to see your sole pattern implies moisture keeping the sawdust in shape. Obviously this doesn't work as well if it's Fir, Pine or some other stickier debris. I've got some really nice Poplar boards at work which have that really nice pistachio mineral staining going on. I might have to buy some off work, however I really don't want to tempt myself into magicking projects into existence purely on the basis of some nice wood or spare hardware....which happens a lot.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Prostheta said: I wouldn't say that it is about how dry the wood is unless we're talking initial drying, The initial drying is what I meant. Or, if it makes any sense, the level of death the wood is at. A fellow once told me that he used to turn plates of birch disks. To avoid splitting which is very common if you cut a disk from a stem was to leave the felled tree on the turf for a year. During that time the fungii could enter the wood cells and "kill" the tree, yet leaving it strong enough instead of rotten and decayed. As @Prostheta said, laminating the Korina will resist the deforming force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 I think that's a case of allowing the wood to lose its free water within the lumen more naturally. If the moisture is above 15% EMC then fungi can be actively metabolising sugars from the cells, which is where the bound water is. Reducing the integrity of the wood cell structure disrupts movement within seasons to a degree, but it's a balance between true integrity and accepting that wood does what it wants when moisture is around. A lot of wood turners rough work the wood wet so that it can move in a more finished form without excess material catching it up and causing fractures. Deformation rather than splitting. I'd rather not lose structure of wood in that way for anything other than a top, which applies in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayT Posted December 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 On 12/27/2019 at 1:26 PM, ADFinlayson said: Chances are the slot was too shallow in one spot, or there was some dust in there that compressed under the fret creating a shallow spot, I found myself cleaning the fret slots often, I slotted first then sanded radius....should I just leave the sandings in the slots until the radius is 100% done? Can I "overwork" the slots making them too deep/wide? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, JayT said: should I just leave the sandings in the slots until the radius is 100% done? Can I "overwork" the slots making them too deep/wide? Leaving the sandings in the slots is not a bad idea. The dust might even protect the edges of the slots from tearout caused by a falling tool and such. Further, the more often you rub the slots, the more you'll be taking material off. Making the slots too deep is not a big issue as it can be filled with wood shavings and dust, making them too wide can damage intonation as there'd be room for the frets to be a tad forward or back in an uneven manner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 8 hours ago, JayT said: I found myself cleaning the fret slots often, I slotted first then sanded radius....should I just leave the sandings in the slots until the radius is 100% done? Can I "overwork" the slots making them too deep/wide? for some reason I always have to fight temptation to constantly clean my slots... probably because once you have binding on (if you do binding) you want to have them clean. I usually blow them out repeatedly, and freq go in with a razor blade that I've dulled down. ok, ok... perhaps it's just because I'm ocd about it. If you ever want talk about it... you know... just rap... I'm here. (Fret dust haters anonymous - I might be the only member). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 31, 2019 Report Share Posted December 31, 2019 Take a snapped Exacto blade (these happen), file the thing into a blunt hook scraper and you have a handle! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayT Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Well, I'm finally recovered enough from the most painful event of my life and have returned to this build (spinal stenosis is no joke, be smarter than I and don't try to lift heavy, awkward junk all day without help!) I'm having trouble getting the 2 body halves perfectly square and am afraid to join/glue them. On their own, each one seems to have a perfectly straight, flat cut for joining -- but when I dry clamp them there always a gap. No matter how much I scrape, sand, recut, repeat...same issue. Particularly at the 'top' and 'bottom' of the seams. I matched them and cut both sides with my table saw, up against the fence (flipping 1 piece over and reverse cutting it to account for saw blade being off a bit) then a bit smoothing with cabinet scraper. All seems perfect, up against straight edge I see no light shining through gaps. It's frustrating. I'm going to end up trimming so much that the darn thing will be too narrow for my body template. Last ditch effort, I saw some YT videos on converting my electric, handheld planer into a joiner table. I'm going to try that tonight. Any tips, hints or secrets out there? Edited January 7, 2020 by JayT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 I'd not try converting a planer. It's a sure fire way of getting worse results unless you spend a lot of time testing, adjusting and fiddling. Clamp both blank halves up side by side, face to face and work on both halves of the joint as one wide face with a hand plane. As long as the surface is coplanar and straight along the length, any discrepancies in angle will cancel out. Open seams at either end might be down to some aspect of your technique, maybe. It's common with hand planes that are too short for the work, where incorrect application of pressure on the toe and heel result in slight dips. You can't go wrong with a sanding stick. I used to have 50mm of plywood with a drum sander belt glued on. Flat enough, but took up way too much space! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayT Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Clamp both blank halves up side by side, face to face and work on both halves of the joint as one wide face with a hand plane. As long as the surface is coplanar and straight along the length, any discrepancies in angle will cancel out. Thanks! I'll try that. I do have a DIY meter long sanding stick...but it's pretty narrow, like 2 inches wide. I'll make one wide enough to sand both halves at the same time, Love all the support here BTW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Another way of doing the same thing is to use your table say's table (assuming it is large enough, and glue some sand paper to it. Then set up the fence over the sandpaper. Double check to insure it has a perfect 90 degrees to the table. Sand the gluing surfaces flat using the fence to insure they stay square to the tabletop/paper. Mark the edge you are sanding with a pencil from edge to edge and sand till all the lines are gone.....both boards. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 An easy way to find where your humps and gaps are is to put the pieces on top of each other sliding the top one off either way. That will tell if the ends have dipped as @Prostheta said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayT Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Bizman62 ... believe me, the dip has been revealed. It is I. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 You'd be surprised how much difference a more even application of pressure makes, whether sanding or planing. It can make corners dip out like this without seeming obvious that it is doing so. Once you nail it (don't nail it) you'll be a magnitude better and more aware is what is happening during your jointing operations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willliam_q Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 Getting square flat joints is very tough. I did my body blank with a Cheap no4 hand plane but I have had a reasonable amount of experience with it and had developed my technique. I also spent most of a day setting it up so it’s only removing see through thin slices. the method involves constantly using a straight edge along the length ( on the outside edges and middle as well) and Then using a square to ensure you are planing square. Every couple of passes check everything again and make small adjustments in your technique to correct any imperfections. i do think that if you have the experience a hand plane is the best way to do it. The next best is the other option of a long flat beam with a long strip of sanding belt but you need to ensure you don’t rock your piece while sanding otherwise you’ll be back to square 1. if power tools aren’t setup correctly (As I’ve so frequently experienced) you can remove way too much way too quickly so I think this is best done by hand. hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayT Posted January 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 20 hours ago, Prostheta said: Clamp both blank halves up side by side, face to face and work on both halves of the joint as one wide face with a hand plane. Worked like a charm! And it only took like 10-15 minutes to get the joint as tight as a...well, fill in the metaphor yourself so I don't get banned Thanks again, Prostheta! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayT Posted January 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Back at it...more issues! Yay. So the blank came out OK I think...but the little bandsaw I have wasn't working. Blade was twisting and burning wood so I switched to the jigsaw. Even the jigsaw blade has problems...wouldn't stay square...kept bowing away from the line on the bottom side. Am I pushing it too fast? I dunno maybe cheap blade. Anyway came usable I think, will know more when I flush cut/route it. The blade bending was made worse when I decided to cut 1/2 way the come at it from the reverse side. I should've foreseen that I suppose. Live and learn. I might have to do some unplanned contouring or something rather than have 90 degree sides/flat top & bottom. Time will tell...... Edited January 17, 2020 by JayT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 With a jigsaw you really have to let the blade do the work rather than pushing it, as pushing is virtually guaranteed to deflect the blade. The same is true with a bandsaw. A good sharp blade will help stop it deflecting, as will backing it off occasionally to let the blade straighten up. Cutting the occasional wider relief slot area will also help. A jigsaw blade will always deflect, so don't try to cut too close to the line. Going back over it slowly and carefully with the blade perpendicular to the cut can nibble away the excess like a powered file. Just be very careful if you try it though, and stop if you are feeling fatigued 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 What Norris said. A good sharp blade is a must both with the jigsaw and the band saw and even more so when cutting thick pieces. Re jigsaws, some of them have a pendulum feature which should reduce the bending tendency. If yours has one, it's a small (1-1.5") lever on the side near the blade, featuring a few notches. For some reason the blade tends to bend to the left at least in my experience, might be because of how the blades are manufactured i.e. die cut which leaves a burr on one side of the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 It also has to be borne in mind that jigsaw easily labour when the blade's gullets are full of waste. The worst case is that it doesn't get ejected in the middle of deep cuts, causing the blade to stop progressing. Pendulum allows the blade to withdraw, allow waste to exit the blade and hope that gravity gives it a chance to clear the kerf one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 I think jigsaw blades tend to one side as the mechanism inside isn't symmetrical. Tool pressure pushes back into any lash or play in the mechanism. Interesting idea about how blades are ground/stamped though. It could equally be that or even both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 8 hours ago, JayT said: Back at it...more issues! Yay. So the blank came out OK I think...but the little bandsaw I have wasn't working. Blade was twisting and burning wood so I switched to the jigsaw. Even the jigsaw blade has problems...wouldn't stay square...kept bowing away from the line on the bottom side. Am I pushing it too fast? I dunno maybe cheap blade. Anyway came usable I think, will know more when I flush cut/route it. The blade bending was made worse when I decided to cut 1/2 way the come at it from the reverse side. I should've foreseen that I suppose. Live and learn. I might have to do some unplanned contouring or something rather than have 90 degree sides/flat top & bottom. Time will tell...... I love the jigsaw and used it for my first 2 builds... in fact I had that exact jigsaw for 10+ years and only recently replaced it when the part that holds the blade sheered off. I usually left about 1/8" to the line... but it cut very straight for me and one thing that was key was the adjustment of the wheel. basically I had the wheel fully back. I believe this is what biz is referring to. worked a lot better like that. as also mentioned... the blades are key. still looking at your photos I think that is about as straight as your going to get cutting thick stock with a jigsaw and no relief cuts. I usually would just drill a few holes here and there to reset the blade. that said... nothing some creativity can't traverse. looking good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Prostheta said: Interesting idea about how blades are ground/stamped though I read about such a phenomenon in coping saw blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayT Posted January 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Flush routed the first body...the off square sides had me trimming a lot with router before I could ride the template edge but got there eventually. Question, i have 2 types of router bits with bearings at top and some at bottom...is one sort better for guitar bodies? I used the one with it at the bottom, level with router table top. Had some blow outs at the corners 2 minor... but one pretty bad. I’d rather try wood putty or something to get the shape rather than change to a more rounded corner. Any suggestions? On next one I’m not going to flush cut the corners, just get close an sand them to points. next body glue drying...this one was way easier getting to this point since 2nd time around... And turned out nicer to boot. No one mentioned that you gotta protect all these pieces from random shop dings and dents. Maybe obvious but I’m a bit flustered at times. 2nd one is in way better shape in this regard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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