Physical Ability

[daveq]

I was wondering if everyone has the same physical ability to play guitar. What I mean is, given enough practice time, could anyone off the street learn to play like Yngwie? I understand that it would take some people longer than others but given enough time, would everyone be able to learn the same material?

For example, if I were to take Yngwie's "Crying" and have 12 people learn the song. Some who have never played guitar, others who have. During 20 years, they all get whatever help they need from experienced players/teachers. After that 20 years, would all of them be likely to play that song note for note or do you think some people are just born without the ability to pull it off?

I know it's a difficult one to answer since things like desire, interest, ... are factors but for the sake of this - assume that all people involved are equally interested and are equally driven to succeed.

In my experience, I don't really know. I've seen some people pick up guitar more quickly than others but I don't know if that's just due to their desire to learn it or if part of it is something physical?

[marksound]

I think it would depend more on the attention span of -- ooh, a quarter!

[daveq]

I'm not sure what you mean?

I know there are other factors involved that make it difficult to answer this but really what I'm after here is this:

As a teacher, at what point would you just say "OK, that's as far as this person can go" and stop pushing them. Are the obstacles purely mental or are some people just physically limited and will never be able to play certain pieces no matter how much they practice and no matter who is teaching them?

[Gorecki]

In my experience, I don't really know. I've seen some people pick up guitar more quickly than others but I don't know if that's just due to their desire to learn it or if part of it is something physical?

←

I tend to believe some people have more aptitude then others. But yes, I believe if all had parallel ambitions that the only difference in acquired outcome would be time.

I’ve told students for years ‘Talent’ is a result, not a given attribute.

[bigdguitars]

big fingers help too...

if you have stubs sometimes its just harder to play. nothing overcomes attitude though, they have to want to do it.

[Southpa]

I took a course many, many years ago in college. One of those silly electives you have to take to fill in the credits. The course was called "Can Creativity Be Taught?" A lot of philisophical issues were involved but the ones that stick with me are the basis of creative thought and actions, what we might call "talent". Its an age old question and we are still trying to find the answer(s), namely, is this ability inherent, ie. passed on through family traits, or is it due to environmental influences?

I've taught a few people how to play guitar and their relative progress rates were quite variable. Some didn't take to it at all while others learned so fast that I was actually envious. You have to have the proper incentive to learn anything. Success lies where your interests are, so if you are genuinely interested in making music on a guitar then the possibilities are limitless. In my case, it was due to peer pressure when I was about 15 yrs old. I had friends who played in a garage band, they played songs like Smoke On The Water, and Can't Get Enough of Your Love (Bad Co.) etc. I latched onto that idea and had visions of being a rock star! lol Of course, life and reality intervened and that dream died about 10 years into my guitar playing. But I didn't place myself into the right learning atmosphere to progress to my fullest potential.

Edited February 9, 2005 by Southpa

[daveq]

Thanks Gorecki - I think you understand what I was after. Interesting answer.

BigD - I agree - if there are obvious physical differences, then that would be an issue. I guess I should have stipulated that all 12 would have very similar builds.

One other thing I should have mentioned - I'm not talking about developing a players ability to create songs such as "Crying" - just getting them to the point where they can play anything put before them. The creativity issue is another interesting subject though. My personal feeling on that is that people are either born with it or not and it's not learned. I could be swayed to think otherwise though - just my gut feeling.

[Daniel Sorbera]

I think it's not about physical ability as much as your mind. Now I know that some would debate that we are nothing more than a bunch of chemicals and hormons and your mind is just anothe muscle... But thats a whole nuther forum . I think some people are smater than others. Also some people have better hand eye coordination. The lader one I think is the most important factor in playing guitar. Sure it can be taught but the first time I picked up a guitar I could play all the simple tab stuff. Probally due to the fact that since I was 2 I have been building plastic models and that helps give you much better hand eye coordination. Now I just need to work on my spelling

[SprocketBoy]

I guess in my opinion on this would be i don't think all 12 could pull it off even with all having the same ability and 20 years of whtever they needed to learn the song. I like to think that "musicianship picks you, you dont pick it" so to speak. For instance My dad plays the drums...very well, now naturaly you'd think i would do the same...my hand foot coordination sucks big time you seriously would laugh at my attempt to play the drums now when i thought about playing guitar as soon as i picked it up it was like i was meant for it, It was natural for me to play the guitar. Take Steve Vai, if you ever watched "Satch Tapes" where Steve talks about taking lessons from Joe and how he knew nothing about the guitar..not even knowing how to put the strings on and then you see what he has transformed into today. Again I think thats another case in where that particular instrument was meant for that musician. I don't know that's just my twist on the subject, Some have callings in life to do certain things.....my .02

[Dugz Ink]

I've been trying to learn how to play chords on six-string guitars for years, and I simply cannot master it. I am a little better at playing chords on pianos/keyboards, but still not very good... which is very depressing because I started playing 38 years ago. But it seems to be a finger coordination thing; I also have trouble typing.

So, my personal experience tells me that not all guitar players are created equal.

And I think that probably applies to every skill. There are a lot of people who can't do some of the things that I've learned to do... things that I learned quickly because they "came naturally" to me.

Why would guitar playing be any different?

D~s

[daveq]

Why would guitar playing be any different?

Different from what?

[Guitarfrenzy]

To my way of thinking it's actually a little of both (talent & hard work). Take Michael Jordan for instance, he was a great basketball player just on pure talent alone, but would he have been one of the greatest of all time if he didn't practice and work to improve his talent each day? I don't think so. That's the same with any talent. Some people can't learn to play a guitar simply because they can't feel the rhythm, or identify the notes enough to even tell if they messed up or not. I have personally seen people who have tried all their lifes to play, but even after years and years of practice, they still sounded sloppy and unpolished. So yes, I think that every person has something special they can do, but guitar playing might not be the area they are talented in. That doesn't mean that they couldn't practice and have fun playing, but that also doesn't mean they will ever have the feel of a Jimi Hendrix, or the flash of a Steve Vai. I'm also a big believer in persistance wins over talent though. A person that isn't quite as gifted as others in certain areas sometime outperform others with great talents in that area. Best of both worlds is having the talent, and then practicing to become even better.

[Daniel Sorbera]

after thinking about it I think that if you have the ear to hear a note and know what it is and you are able to hold a rythem (can you beat on your leg perfectly in time with the music?) And you have good hand eye coordination. If you have all that than you can master guitar with practice. Thers a guy I know thats really and I rean REALLY good at singing, playing acoustic, and playing electric. He had the main 3 elements I stated and most imporatantly he REALLY wanted to be the best. So he practesd 6 hours a day until he was the best... And now hees the best I know and is stuck there Seriously, if he wanted to go play for a living he could put out a demp cd and sign with a record company almost instantly. He is better than about 99.9% of all the players I've herd on cds. All because he wanted to. I mean REALLy wanted to. How many of you play 6 hours a day? You cant say you REALLY want too unless you play atleast 6 hours a day.

Edited February 9, 2005 by Godin SD

[daveq]

I'd play 6 hours a day if I could. I used to play about 4 hrs a day back in college but now that I've got a job and a family, personal time is almost non-existent. I can usually find about an hour these days to do whatever I want. I have to fit everything into that hour so it's not usually all dedicated to guitar.

When I was in college, I used to teach a few people who were starting out playing guitar. When they got stuck on something, I always wondered if it was something that I wasn't explaining properly or if it was just a case of them not being physically gifted enough to do it. The desire was there and I could always hear them practicing so that wasn't it either.

I was checking out one of my George Lynch videos the other night and that's what got me thinking about all of this.

[Marzocchi705]

after thinking about it I think that if you have the ear to hear a note and know what it is and you are able to hold a rythem (can you beat on your leg perfectly in time with the music?) And you have good hand eye coordination. If you have all that than you can master guitar with practice. Thers a guy I know thats really and I rean REALLY good at singing, playing acoustic, and playing electric. He had the main 3 elements I stated and most imporatantly he REALLY wanted to be the best. So he practesd 6 hours a day until he was the best... And now hees the best I know and is stuck there   Seriously, if he wanted to go play for a living he could put out a demp cd and sign with a record company almost instantly. He is better than about 99.9% of all the players I've herd on cds.  All because he wanted to. I mean REALLy wanted to. How many of you play 6 hours a day?  You cant say you REALLY want too unless you play atleast 6 hours a day.

←

I play about 6hours aday, 30 min beforschool 30min at school most days, 1hour befor tea, an hour after tea, and 2-3 when i get back in after goin out. But im crazy and dont need sleep, im still crap but im getting better.

[MikeB]

as of this week i havent been playing much - i havebeen building instead, picked the guitar up and i sucked bad! practised for 3 hours and i was back on form. interesting.

i think with will power you can do alot, but with physical limitations it simply wont be possible, eg i can play 12th to 24th without moving my hand, i dont think this would be possible without big hands.

technique wise i reckon determination can help soo much! i have been trying for about 2 years to play like yngiwe, learn his style, and i think im well on my way to being happy with it. i wont say i am anywhere as good! but i now at least can play some of his stuff reasonably like him - i have trilogy suite quite well learnt. i am learning my way into how he improvises atm.

mike

[westhemann]

i actually know the answer to this one

short answer to the original question...no

longer answer...

some people just NEVER get it and never will...some are automatic geniuses at it...just like any ability...some have it,some don't.

i don't base this on reason...i base this on experience.

my cousin who is the same age as me started playing guitar at 16...his mom plays and is reasonably good,and he had a ton of friends who played to help him learn...plus many tab books to learn from...he was very motivated and practiced hours a day...VERY driven

i started playing at 18...with one of his old thrown away guitar bodies that i stuck a neck on.i surpassed him within 2 months,with less avenues of learning...i was also very motivated and practiced hours a day.last time i saw him he had been playing every day for over 6 years...he STILL could not even properly play "eye of the beholder"(such a simple song)

we are both tall,skinny(he is slightly taller and the same build as me),he is smart,loves music,and has good taste in music.no physical disabilities whatsoever...he can move his fingers as well as me...and trills faster than me...but he is apparently missing some part of his mind which helps you with your sense of rythm...

he will never be able to play a song in a manner in which you would recognize it....he will play it the same poor way every time...over and over...never improving an iota...it is baffling to me..but it is a fact.

size of hands means nothing.my best friend who was killed was twice the guitarist as me....with short,fat hands where mine are long and thin.

the only thing i could do better than that guy was give a rock solid rythm.we ALL have talents...but we do not all have the same talents.

that is why great instrumentalists are marveled at...because they do something not everyone can.

i learned long ago not to get mad at my cousin about this...he thought he was playing well...to him it sounded just right.

[TGwaH]

i learned long ago not to get mad at my cousin about this...he thought he was playing well...to him it sounded just right.

←

I think I have the opposite problem, whenever I play it never sounds quite right to me yet whenever anyone walks by they'll say "oh that xxxx, cool" And I'm surprised everytime.

I'm not bragging, I just don't think I'm that good.

[rhoads56]

I used to practise up to six hours a day, but never less than two hours. I sucked. Three years later, i was still "behind" where i should be. Five years on i was getting good, but not that good. Now, i cant hadly play much (kinda gave up being frustrated).

However, i can build things. That is my talent. So i build guitars

[Dugz Ink]

I used to practise up to six hours a day, but never less than two hours. I sucked. Three years later, i was still "behind" where i should be. Five years on i was getting good, but not that good. Now, i cant hadly play much (kinda gave up being frustrated).

However, i can build things. That is my talent. So i build guitars

I can relate to that sooo much! I've resigned myself to the fact that I will never be a great player, and may never be a good player... but I love electric guitars, so it would be great if I could at least build a few great guitars.

D~s