mledbetter Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 ~ stepping up onto soapbox ~ ahem.. Wow.. sounds like some people need to get off their high horse. It's easy to bash someoen then hide behind the guise of "i'm more experienced and i only bust your chops to make you get better" IMO that's a bigger load of BS than the topic here. The forum rules require refraining from personal attacks, name calling, derogitory comments, etc.. If critisism is constructive, then even though it may be a tough pill to swallow, the recipient can learn from it. Being called a liar, BS'er, a charade.. isn't in the least bit constructive. I don't care how you try to justify it.. you're kidding yourself if you think that you are being constructive going down taht road. I'm all for being blunt and "telling it like it is" but that's an easy copout when you want go off on someone. The comparision to Litch is ridiculous and shameful. period. ~ off soapbox now ~ Godin.. the way you conduct yourself on this forum and the work you do, i would never have guessed your age. You're a far cry from the usual "kid" that dreams of "one day i'll buy a CNC and make the coolest guitars and take over the industry" and all that kind of crap... so.. be proud of your work, always strive to make it better, and good job on this stuff. You have the guts to try out a new design and while it's not necessarily my favorite shape, i applaud you for havnig the guts to stick it out there. Hell - your first attempt almost won the GOTM even with the misaligned ferrule holes. Folks obviously like your stuff but with any really custom shape or different style, you'll find it's a love or hate kind of thing. You've taken all this stuff amazingly in stride and that's to be commended for as well. Good job man.. Sure there are things you could probably do better next time, but often it takes a few days of letting the finished product soak in before you can really discover the best nd worst features of a custom creation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Wow.. sounds like some people need to get off their high horse. funny thing is..no matter how you try to be p.c. about the constructive critisism,there is always some bleeding heart waiting in the wings to totally deny,deny,deny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 It's these kinda threads that make you come back to the PG.com forum. These killer threads as I call 'm. These threads that just show how much passion most of us have about their axes, and the way we built them. And in result ...... pushing everybody forward. Thanks guys for sharing this passion with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 It's these kinda threads that make you come back to the PG.com forum. These killer threads as I call 'm. These threads that just show how much passion most of us have about their axes, and the way we built them. And in result ...... pushing everybody forward. Thanks guys for sharing this passion with me. ← that is a GREAT way to look at it...that's why i love cosmo kramer so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Wow.. sounds like some people need to get off their high horse. funny thing is..no matter how you try to be p.c. about the constructive critisism,there is always some bleeding heart waiting in the wings to totally deny,deny,deny. ← It's hard on forums like these where no one REALLY knows anyone.. but i can assure no one has ever accused me of being a bleeding heart I just think that it's perfectly ok to "construct" your criticism in a way to gets your real point across first" rather than the method of step 1) piss the person off then step 2) explain to them why you said it and hope they get over their initial defensiveness and accept your original point, which in this case was completely valid. It's much more efficient to craft your words to ensure the most important concepts are communicated first. That doesn't make me a bleeding heart in my opinion. I deal a lot with corporate communication via electronic means and justsomething you have to be careful of. It very easy to be misunderstood in written word. Even with the smily's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 (edited) After reading all your posts I really respect your opinions and more than anything I don'e wan't too become another litch who thinks hees great when hees not. I know that the tuners mite look a little whack and when I start building for others I will space the tuners accordingly. But I happen too like it like this and I think it's easier too tune this way. I did alot of testing and found that when your hand is in the posistion of the E string I almost always hit the a tuner. But when my hand is on the a string it's nice and far away from the d tuner. I personally like the tuners this way, if you would like me too tell you diffrent than here, I don't like them this way and I messed up (there did that make you happy? (that was being toally sarcastic just in case ) ) Look guys I seriously don't wan't too sell myself as more than I am. But I just don't like being called a liar on an issue that I diddn't lie about. Thats just how my personality is. Wes made a comment about the body being too big and not having upper fret acess. The bubinga body IS really big and un comfterable. BUT these new wenge bodys and nice and small, 12" x 16.5" and I can reach all frets without bending my hand in any weird ways. Granted I don't play on the 22 fret all the time and a double cutaway would have better high fret acess (I have a double cutaway design but I just havn't made one yet...) i just have never seen godin admit to a mistake of any kind yet...and since we all make them,it is only fair to talk about them. Excuse me but do you even know the reason for this thred????? It's because I have redone my first guitar that was crap. It wasn't even about the wenge guitar, or my personal status as either a litch of a nice guy. I made mistakes on my first guitar (LOTS of them), and I know I'll be making many more mistakes in the future. but I went back and fixed all the mistakes on my first guitar.. godin,you are doing good work...keep it up...you will only get better and i think soon you will be a true artist...i can't wait to see your first piece that rivals myka or rhoads.i think you WILL get there Yay thers still hope for me So Godin....what did you choose for the refinish? Did you finish the coco neck or leave it raw? I used a tung oil finish on it. I really like the feel and looks. I will deffinitly be using tung oil necks again. I mean if after all the comments he decides to fix the headstock (what can be easily done, imho)....he proves that his first comments were complete BS. But if just for this (or ego) reasons he doesn't fix it.....he just has to live with all the rememberance of all comments given to him about the headstock everytime he looks at it. You guys still don't get it! Thers nothing too "fix" becuase I like it. Try telling michael angelo that you don't like his painting. Tell him he messed up and he needs too change the entire thing because you don't like it. Art is a VERY subjective thing! So sorry if I seemed rude or if you thought I was BSing all you guys. If it sounded that way I really diddn't mean it to. Edited June 6, 2005 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 (edited) (RGGR @ Jun 6 2005, 07:41 AM) It's these kinda threads that make you come back to the PG.com forum. These killer threads as I call 'm. These threads that just show how much passion most of us have about their axes, and the way we built them. And in result ...... pushing everybody forward. Thanks guys for sharing this passion with me. that is a GREAT way to look at it...that's why i love cosmo kramer so much Edited June 6, 2005 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 I just think that it's perfectly ok to "construct" your criticism in a way to gets your real point across first" rather than the method of step 1) piss the person off then step 2) explain to them why you said it and hope they get over their initial defensiveness and accept your original point, which in this case was completely valid. It's much more efficient to craft your words to ensure the most important concepts are communicated first. think you will still be so good at "crafting your words" after 14033 posts? i am blunt now to save time and words.i used to type all flowery like you..but now i am tired of typing all those useless words...brevity is bliss I used a tung oil finish on it. I really like the feel and looks. I will deffinitly be using tung oil necks again. do yourself a favor and experiment with hard finishes.i think you will come to like them...as aftera while an oiled neck becomes very dirty and nasty looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 i just have never seen godin admit to a mistake of any kind yet...and since we all make them,it is only fair to talk about them. Excuse me but do you even know the reason for this thred????? It's because I have redone my first guitar that was crap. ← Yep. Its always good to see people raising their standards and going back to re-do old axes (see Setch). Godin also 'fessed up about the original ferrule holes before he posted for GOTM the first time. Keep an eye on the tung-oil-on-cocobolo situation. I've heard all kinds of things about the incompatibility of different oil finishes on coco...but I've also heard just as many people say "I've never had a problem with finishing coco...". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdguitars Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Is this the soap opera forum or what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 I know that the tuners mite look a little whack and when I start building for others I will space the tuners accordingly. But I happen too like it like this and I think it's easier too tune this way. I did alot of testing and found that when your hand is in the posistion of the E string I almost always hit the a tuner. But when my hand is on the a string it's nice and far away from the d tuner. I personally like the tuners this way, if you would like me too tell you diffrent than here, I don't like them this way and I messed up (there did that make you happy? (that was being toally sarcastic just in case ) ) ← Godin, Ok, I'll assume you actually did want them like that. My comment was, from a design standpoint it looks like a mistake. from a commercial aspect it seriously detracts from an otherwise nice guitar. If you ever want to build guitars to sell, you can't do things like that. Even if you feel it is better, others won't. I have never in 18 years of playing found what you say about the tuning and the low E tuner, but whatever, lets say you actually do. In the commercial world, it's irrelevant. People buy and judge on looks first, just like in this forum. You have to remember, that in a forum such as this, the ONLY thing we can judge is looks. It could be a gorgeous guitar that plays like garbage (not saying it does, just pointing it out) so we really don't know. Something cosmetically wrong like these tuners is going to stick out. Anyway, just my opinion. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 (edited) Is this the soap opera forum or what... ← Heh heh, personally I'm still in progress and very unfinished...exactly like a soap opera....just ask my wife... Oh yeah Godin --when I bought my Melody Maker way back when, the previous owner had thought it really cool to mount the tuners on a slant, making the head look a little like a flying V...well, that's gotten a lot of laughs over the years, but I keep 'em that way, even after changing them for locking tuners. Because that's the way I like them. So sure, stick to your guns! It's okay if the rest of us think your tuners look a little weird though, right? Then again, people have been wondering about David's hands for a few hundred years now too... Seriously, I wish I had just a little fraction of your talent...what have you thought about doing for a living later? Edited June 6, 2005 by idch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Godin, Ok, I'll assume you actually did want them like that. My comment was, from a design standpoint it looks like a mistake. from a commercial aspect it seriously detracts from an otherwise nice guitar. If you ever want to build guitars to sell, you can't do things like that. Even if you feel it is better, others won't. I have never in 18 years of playing found what you say about the tuning and the low E tuner, but whatever, lets say you actually do. In the commercial world, it's irrelevant. People buy and judge on looks first, just like in this forum. You have to remember, that in a forum such as this, the ONLY thing we can judge is looks. It could be a gorgeous guitar that plays like garbage (not saying it does, just pointing it out) so we really don't know. Something cosmetically wrong like these tuners is going to stick out. Anyway, just my opinion. Jeremy when I start building for others I will space the tuners accordingly. Is this the soap opera forum or what... Yep what have you thought about doing for a living later? Well if I can get good enough I would like too build guitars. I never wan't too work for somone. I have always wanted too go into buisness for myself doing something I love. Thats why I think I'm lucky starting this young. Because right now I don't have too pay the bills. It would be hard too go into this when I have bills I have too pay each month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 t's okay if the rest of us think your tuners look a little weird though, right? laugh.gif Then again, people have been wondering about David's hands for a few hundred years now too... I always thought his weener was tid bit small......but his hands??? Funny what you learn on guitar building site. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050...vidpisello.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Godin, if you ever go into business, be sure to look me up to spell-check all your literature for you. Using "too" instead of "to" and vice versa does my head in. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Drak - I seen you give this sort of speech a number of times and I get where your coming from (and I should add, most of the time I think its good that you and Wes are so blunt), but given what you have said here, it seems a bit unfair to apply that line of thinking to Godin just because of some horrible precedents that have come before him. Godin has shown a good deal of humility and patience about his work so far hasn't he? Not to mention his guitar is pretty shmick. Read what's there and only what's there. If I wanted to ~inflect~ more meaning than I did, I would have typed more than I did. But people who are so insecure about themselves that they have to artificially pump themselves up and lay on some thick line of BS and can't just be honest and tell the stupid truth, well, I just don't like or admire people like that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Round and round and round.... Enough already! This stuff is wayyyyy off topic!!! I mentioned a lot of flak about my Sustainer...what I didn't mention is that most of this occurred when I sought a wider "audience" and input from a well known effects board. That's when I started to get emails and PM's saying I was full of BS and that...after almost 2 years of posting results and 100's of hours of experimenting...I was labeled a fraud. The wording was very similar to the type of stuff found here. That's why I only come to PG and PG is the only site that has a viable DIY sustainer and the support to help people build it....because...PG is generally lacking in the overt damning of peoples ideas and personal attacks, the people here are open and contribute and at the same time are not, in general, complete sicophants (sorry GregP...not sure how to spell that one!). But there is always a danger: Just imagine a newbie reading all this. He (or she) would just crap his/her pants and run like sh*t...... Oh, man....... Don't let PG become a sniper-fest pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Ya can we please not get any more posts here? THe point has been taken and taken and taken and beaten and killed and beaten some more. As has my spelling, so please lay off. I'm working on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 I'm working on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 I ain't saying anything about the guitar, since everything that I see that could be wrong have been pointed a few times already. The only thing I see is that who ever comes here and post, got to be open to critizism, the only thiong is how you take it. Nobody has called no one a liar, (as far as I have read), but Godin, you need to take it a bit easier, you have got it easy compared to other guys here on the forum. And there is one person here that have been hit way to hard in the last few days and he has taken it OK... (I hope so), so just chill a bit, you are just starting at this, are young and have every great support from your parents in order to be able to make this a career. But if you don't take the advise given by the more experienced folks here, and don't correct your mistakes at an early stage, you won't get too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 I ain't saying anything about the guitar, since everything that I see that could be wrong have been pointed a few times already. The only thing I see is that who ever comes here and post, got to be open to critizism, the only thiong is how you take it. Nobody has called no one a liar, (as far as I have read), but Godin, you need to take it a bit easier, you have got it easy compared to other guys here on the forum. And there is one person here that have been hit way to hard in the last few days and he has taken it OK... (I hope so), so just chill a bit, you are just starting at this, are young and have every great support from your parents in order to be able to make this a career. But if you don't take the advise given by the more experienced folks here, and don't correct your mistakes at an early stage, you won't get too far. ← Wise words that I am just now beginning too get. Auccually I'm glad this thred has come along. I've learned alot from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Auccually I'm glad this thred has come along. I've learned alot from it. So have I. I have decided that I will never again speak another negative word here. It is over. I have witnessed The Eternal Burning Light of The Politically Correct, and it is Good. I have witnessed the coming of The Citizen, whosoever shall bear witness to everything good and nice in this world, where no evildoing existeth, and every Citizen is a Good Citizen. I am of Landrew, I am of The One, of The Body. I shall smile the smile of the Correct Citizen and know no other response. Peace to you, brothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 NO Drak Come back to the dark cynical side WE NEED YOU!! EDIT:--What do you mean I cant Speel !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Auccually I'm glad this thred has come along. I've learned alot from it. So have I. I have decided that I will never again speak another negative word here. It is over. I have witnessed The Eternal Burning Light of The Politically Correct, and it is Good. I have witnessed the coming of The Citizen, whosoever shall bear witness to everything good and nice in this world, where no evildoing existeth, and every Citizen is a Good Citizen. I am of Landrew, I am of The One, of The Body. I shall smile the smile of the Correct Citizen and know no other response. Peace to you, brothers. ← lol.. One of the post you'll remember as a classic later down the road.. haha Drak do you realise what you just did, now if you say something negative, then you'll be called a liar. lol Please don't tell me that you have chilled out, no, no, no!!! lol Personally, I don't think you was being negative, just constructive as was Wes, but no one knew that Godin planned for his big E tuner to be of great distance apart from the other tuners, simply because of design he made. I think that if it was a mistake, then please buy a Brad Point Bit from now on when doing tuner holes, if not, then neat design bro. Do what you feel looks good and makes for a truly custom guitar. BTW.. I like your guitars, good work!!! Hopefully everyone can move on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 sinacle cynical and damn,matt... have i got a big future surprise coming for you and maiden in about a month... shhhh!!!!i have said too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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