sixstring Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Ok, I've been thinking this through for a while and correct me if im wrong, I don't think that different wood actually affects the tone of the guitar. Think about it. In order for a wood to produce a tone, it has to vibrate. The only thing that can vibrate the wood on a guitar are strings. The strings on an electic guitar are thin and don't produce much vibration and therefore the vibrations have to be "picked up" by pickups. This then goes through circuitry and is amplified. The wood does not affect this at all. One could argue that wood is vibrated by the sound from the amplifier, but this still wouldn't affect the sound, as pickups generally only pick up elctromagnetic waves, which is why electric guitars have steel strings. I can only think that wood is purely for asthetics. However, I don't know everything, so if I'm wrong please let me know. Also, don't just say "you're an idiot, you're wrong", give me a reason how wood affects tone. I will happily stand corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) You are really really wrong and I suggest you first go and There is lots of interesting stuff to be read on the main site and others, and while you're at it, get Hiscocks book... And, there is a search function on this forum.. And the pickups are not there to make the vibration stronger, but to convert it into an electric signal... Edited July 5, 2005 by Mr.Churchyard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Beer Man Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 If wood doesnt effect tone then we would all have oak or mdf (mdf is madr from saw dust) guitars cause its so common lol. Even guitar companies use differents for different tones. Says so on many guitar sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixstring Posted July 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 And the pickups are not there to make the vibration stronger, but to convert it into an electric signal... ← Yes I know that, by the process of electromagnetic induction, sorry, my bad wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertonessuckbutigotone Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Try this: Pick up your guitar (unplugged) and take it over to something big and wooden (say a wooden desk). Then press a part of the body or neck against this big wooden thing. Play a note. While the note is still ringing pull the guitar off of the object then press again. Now tell me the strings arent big enough to cause the wood to vibrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixstring Posted July 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Try this: Pick up your guitar (unplugged) and take it over to something big and wooden (say a wooden desk). Then press a part of the body or neck against this big wooden thing. Play a note. While the note is still ringing pull the guitar off of the object then press again. Now tell me the strings arent big enough to cause the wood to vibrate. ← I stand corrected If wood doesnt effect tone then we would all have oak or mdf (mdf is madr from saw dust) guitars cause its so common lol. Even guitar companies use differents for different tones. Says so on many guitar sites. ← You could make a guitar out of medium density fibreboard (mdf) but it wouldn't be asthetically pleasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 You could make a guitar out of medium density fibreboard (mdf) but it wouldn't be asthetically pleasing. ← Yea, its been done. Its your Wal*mart guitars. And how wood affects tone is a much discussed topic. I can only give you my opinion. Basically, the way wood affects tone is the extent to which it dampens the vibration of the strings. Different woods can dampen different frequencies, therefore changing tone. A denser wood, such as maple, doesn't absorb much of the vibration, therefore you get a sound that represents the actual tone of the the vibrating strings. Mahongany, on the other hand, is less dense and it absorbs a lot of the higher frequencies, giving you a warmer tone. It's still my belief that electronics are the core of your tone, but I imagine that perfectly matched wood selection and electronics would yield a superior sounding guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) You are really really wrong and I suggest you first go and bookread.gif There is lots of interesting stuff to be read on the main site and others, and while you're at it, get Hiscocks book... And, there is a search function on this forum.. By the way it's wrong that the only thing that vibrates are the strings... actually the whole guitar resonates. Seriously really, really, really way off like MrChurchyard said. Wood is one of the main contributing factor to the sound/tone of a guitar, any guitar. If you disagree find out yourself first hand and build a guitar out of plywood or mdf like Duff Beer Man said and also make one entirely out of maple, and compare. You probably will be barely get any sound out of the plywood and the all maple would be extremely bright. Do you remember highschool science? They teach you how sound waves travel, and how the speed of sound varies from one density to another, such as water dirt, air or wood. And depending on the density the waves will change in speed and strength and some other ways I believe, sorry it's been awhile since I have been to school I can't think of how it was descibed now, I'm sure one of you guys would be able to explain this theory a little better. But understand it has a big impact on the tone of the guitar. As Mr.Churchyard suggested do a lot of . Also welcome to the forum, there is so much you can learn from this place, I have learned a ton and the guys here are a huge help to everyone, but try and use the search feature on here and read books and get the basics down before asking questions like that as they are easy to answer after doing only a very little bit of homework on guitars. And most people will not want to answer such a simple question when it can be learned with 10 minutes of reading and research. So again welcome and read up there is endless info here and on the main siteof Project Guitar! Also if you start a project post your ideas once you've researched them and the guys here can give you tips on what to watch out for and what not to do. Good luck! Jason Edited July 5, 2005 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 If wood doesnt effect tone then we would all have oak or mdf Hey Leave Oak out this , I beleave That Oak is A great tone Wood!! Rember Brian May? ok good Now Think what Was his guitar Made from That's Right Oak! Lace wood (Anothe type of Oak)Is used all over guitar's Im useing Oak and Lace wood On two builds in fact Im useing Both Oak and Lace wood On one body! !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 I have used this analogy in the past to great affect, The tone woods are to a guitar (electric or not) what a filter is to a camera lens. The original "signal" is the same but it is modified or conditioned by the filter. The final output is the result of the original sonic value after "conditioning". You gots your daylight filters, your overcast filters, your white-balance filters, your long-exposure f-extending filters, etc. That be what tone woods do. SHIELDS UP, Mr. Spock!!!!!!! IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 I have used this analogy in the past to great affect, The tone woods are to a guitar (electric or not) what a filter is to a camera lens. The original "signal" is the same but it is modified or conditioned by the filter. The final output is the result of the original sonic value after "conditioning". You gots your daylight filters, your overcast filters, your white-balance filters, your long-exposure f-extending filters, etc. That be what tone woods do. SHIELDS UP, Mr. Spock!!!!!!! IMHO ← Hey doc, what a great comparison! Like it very much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 jmrentis....Ok if MDF or plywood is so bad with tone.....How come we have some very decent sounding danelectros floating round the US and Canada. Wood has a bit to do with it but its not the whole picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 QUOTE If wood doesnt effect tone then we would all have oak or mdf blink.gif Hey Leave Oak out this laugh.gif , I beleave That Oak is A great tone Wood!! Rember Brian May? ok good Now Think what Was his guitar Made from That's Right Oak! Lace wood (Anothe type of Oak)Is used all over guitar's Im useing Oak and Lace wood On two builds in fact Im useing Both Oak and Lace wood On one body! tongue.gif !!METAL MATT!! canadaflag.gif Ha your the first peson I thought of when I read this. I thought wait until Matt reads that, he have a different view on that one. I never new that lacewood was a type of Oak, thats cool and proves your point well! And I learned something new! That stuff is used a lot and I never heard a bad thing about it and it looks cool. How would you describe Oak tone wise? I know thats a tough question as tone is so damn hard to describe in the first place, but if you can I would love to know as I wouldn't have any problems using it on a project oneday, especially since I have seen your bodies turn out so well and that lacewood is a type of oak. I'm glad you put your experiences with oak here so people know that oak works for guitars. You should put a pic of the oak and purpleheart V up here. Right on Matt! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 jmrentis....Ok if MDF or plywood is so bad with tone.....How come we have some very decent sounding danelectros floating round the US and Canada. Wood has a bit to do with it but its not the whole picture. ← I don't know about that. There are a few plywood guitars that are "decent" sounding. I had a Squier that had me fooled for a while, that's until I cut it! And the only problem I saw was when playing at high volumes, it was getting some horrible feedbacks. Wood is not the whole picture, but IMO is as important as the pickup selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 jmrentis....Ok if MDF or plywood is so bad with tone.....How come we have some very decent sounding danelectros floating round the US and Canada. Wood has a bit to do with it but its not the whole picture. Ok it's not the only factor but I think it is a big one, I don't think there are any acoustics that are plywood, and if there are I wouldn't consider them a high class instrument or have as good as sound as the other tone woods. In my eyes if plywood and mdf were perfectly good to use for guitars, why wouldn't every company use these woods as the bodies with a thin veneer on them or just solid plywood or mdf with a solid color. It would be a whole lot cheaper for them. And since you wouldn't see it in those situations why wouldn't they use it. But yes I agree it isn't as big of a factor as I made it out to be in my other post, but I believe it can have a big impact on tone still. Maybe after I have built a large variety of guitars with different woods I will think differently but for now thats how I feel. Also I have never played any danelectros so I cannot say anything about that, but I'll take your word for it. How would you describe there sound? Also are they lighter than the average guitar such as a strat? Let me know Guitarguy I am interested about those guitars, and thanks for letting me know as I was unaware of any plywood or mdf guitars, oh yeah and which one was it plywood or mdf? Thanks . Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Beer Man Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 If wood doesnt effect tone then we would all have oak or mdf Hey Leave Oak out this , I beleave That Oak is A great tone Wood!! Rember Brian May? ok good Now Think what Was his guitar Made from That's Right Oak! Lace wood (Anothe type of Oak)Is used all over guitar's Im useing Oak and Lace wood On two builds in fact Im useing Both Oak and Lace wood On one body! !!METAL MATT!! ← Yeah i know oak is alright. But im just talking about how cheap it is and cmon, least around here it is. Im just saying compared to other woods... Actually i dont know what i was trying to say lol. Sorry if i offened anyone lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Yeah i know oak is alright. But im just talking about how cheap it is and cmon, least around here it is. Im just saying compared to other woods... Actually i dont know what i was trying to say lol. Sorry if i offened anyone lol. HAHAHAHA Man Im not offened It take's alot To get Me going! I just Love Oak And I beleave It's A good wood and It's worth useing for guitar's !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 HAHAHAHA Man Im not offened It take's alot To get Me going! I just Love Oak And I beleave It's A good wood and It's worth useing for guitar's !!METAL MATT!! ← I read that oak has acidic oils that will corrode metal. Is there any truth to that that you know of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 I am with you to a certain extent-- wood selection is not the be-all and end-all of tone; however, I'm glad that you agree now that it must have SOMETHING to do with the tone. Take two extremely similar woods and I bet I'd be hard-pressed to noticed a tonal difference, but significantly different woods will produce slightly different tones. Danelectro and Sears guitars made from MDF and plywood might sound quite pleasing, but they're also 'squonky' in a way. It's the squonkiness or crappiness that makes them valued, not the singing sustain or bloom of a note. The main other reason I wouldn't use MDF is that ultimately it's too soft. At some point in time, the screws simply won't hold. I guess if you never ever ever touch certain parts (like the bridge) there won't be any wear, but surely the prolonged pressure at the neck joint has got to give at some point in time. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 I read that oak has acidic oils that will corrode metal. Is there any truth to that that you know of? Well I dont Know On that one But Is it's True There's some Oak home's and Kitchens out there in some real troble! !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 it is untrue...camphor wood corrodes metal,not oak as far as i know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 I've heard that strings by themselves produce hardly any sound at all. What you connect your strings to will affect the sound they produce, as the strings are using that object as a vibrational medium, and variables like stiffness, density, hardness etc. will color that sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 I've heard that strings by themselves produce hardly any sound at all. What you connect your strings to will affect the sound they produce, as the strings are using that object as a vibrational medium, and variables like stiffness, density, hardness etc. will color that sound. ← Ah, that does make sense. Since sound waves are longitudinal waves (whereas vibrating strings are transverse waves), it would only make sense that in order to have sufficient volume on acoustic instruments that it would need some flat, or nearly flat, material to act as the vibrational medium that produces the longitudinal waves that we hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 (edited) I've heard that strings by themselves produce hardly any sound at all. What you connect your strings to will affect the sound they produce, as the strings are using that object as a vibrational medium, and variables like stiffness, density, hardness etc. will color that sound. ← This has some truth to it. You are talking about sympathetic vibration. The example given earlier to play the guitar and then play again with the neck touching a table is the same concept. With the neck touching the table, the table will vibrate as well, although it is not vibrating as much as the guitar, it has a large, flat surface (this is known as a large "radiating area"). An easier way to examine this is by using a tuning fork. Hit the tuning fork in air, then hit it and put the end on a table. It will change sound different because the wood will introduce new/different harmonics, though the frequency of vibration will not change. The same principle is exactly why an acoustic guitar sounds louder than an electric (unplugged of course). The acoustic has a very large and light radiating area. The acoustic is more complicated due to the large volume of air and the sound hole, but that gets the basic concept across. Technically, the shape and the material will alter the sound of a guitar. Can it be measured? Oh yes. Does this mean you can hear the difference between an alder body and a poplar body of the same guitar? Probably not. For an electric, I believe the pickups do a very large portion of the work. It would be interesting to see the results of double blind testing (a true scientific test, not someone just doing an A/B comparison) of guitars with different woods. Edited July 6, 2005 by Sparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickmangumby Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Has this been linked to yet? Taylors "Pallet guitar" Bob Taylor (of Taylor guitars!) decided to build a guitar out of an old pallet that had been sitting out in the rain out the back of one of their warehouses to prove that "It's the design and the builder, and not the wood, that define a great guitar". The wood used has got to influence the overall sound of an acoustic guitar, I can't see how it wouldn't. But the pallet guitar shows that you can make a good guitar with shoddy wood. I'm sure its a lot harder to do though! On an electric though I'm not convinced that the wood used would make a significant impact. Playing an open string (which only has contact with the nut and the saddle) causes it to vibrate. The vibrations cause a disruption in the electro-magnetic field of the guitars pickups, and they produce an electric current based on the strings movements. Can anyone notice the difference in sound between an guitar played on the first fret or with an open string (assuming the nut is good)? When you fret a note, the wood vibrates more because the fret it is in contact with absorbs less of the vibrations than the nut does when you play an open string. The amount the wood vibrates depends on factors such as the density. This of course affects the sustain of the guitar; energy is passed from the string to the wood, which releases it faster than playing an open string would. >> That's just my random collection of thoughts and ramblings. It's not meant to be especially coherent or logical, just a few bits of info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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