How Thin Can I Go?

[ByronBlack]

I've been given a piece of 50mm thick maple which is too narrow to make a guitar body (9") so I was thinking of resawing this into a bookmatched 18" piece, but this would leave it at just 25mm.

I'll be using a TOM bridge, so i'm thinking i could perhaps get away with a thin body, but not sure how it would hold up under-pressue, would there be danger of warping/twisting?

I remember somone posting to a website that had really thin guitars but couldn't find it agian.

Any info gratefully received.

BB

[Gemleggat]

I reckon 35mm would be the minimum possible with wood, Is it bolt on or set neck?

[westhemann]

first off,resawing a 50mm piece does not take it to 25mm

[jmrentis]

That would leave it at under a inch, so I think that would be too thin, I could be wrong but I think that other thread about thin guitars came up with the idea that would be be too thin. I don't think you would be able to get electronics in it, pickups can be pretty tall so those might not fit along with the other parts, and the neck pocket would be very thin which could cause the pocket to break much easier. I'm not sure about warping and twisting though. You could always get another piece of wood or two and make a two or three piece body. Well anyways thats just what I have read, I don't have any personal experience with thin guitars, mine is going to be about 1 5/8" which is a tad thinner than some, and I have read of people doing 1 1/2" but I haven't seen much thinner than that, although I know there are. Good luck. Jason

Edit: I didn't even think about what wes had said, after cutting and sanding it will be much thinner than 25mm, maybe you could just saw it into a couple tops and buy some more wood for a body.

Edited September 5, 2005 by jmrentis

[Mickguard]

My Melody Maker is 33 mm...it's a great, lightweight guitar, you could wear it for hours. But I think there's a definite sacrifice in tone, at least when it's plugged in (unplugged, it's nearly as resonant as an acoustic!). Anyway, it's been 40 years now, and nary a warp to be found...

But the melody maker's mahogany, you're talking about maple, that might be a lot different.

Why not find a second layer of wood to match with the maple?

[rhoads56]

Some people cant see the forrest for the trees.... they over analyse everything, instead of just getting their hands dirty....

How thick is your neck?? Oh, 20-21mmm.... That seems to be holding up fine doesnt it....

How wide is your neck?? Oh, about 6-8 times narrower than the body....

[ByronBlack]

Some people cant see the forrest for the trees.... they over analyse everything, instead of just getting their hands dirty....

How thick is your neck?? Oh, 20-21mmm.... That seems to be holding up fine doesnt it....

How wide is your neck?? Oh, about 6-8 times narrower than the body....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perry, this was my thinking with taking the body to 25mm (ish) the neck to body join should still be pretty solid as the thicknesses would be identical.

I think i'll go ahead and try it and see how it turns out, I can always rescue it if it fails.

[Daniel Sorbera]

Basicly you can go as thin as you electronics will let you The wood is plenty strong. As long as the pickups and pots and such can handle it than your good to go. Remember you won't be able to use a trem...

[ByronBlack]

Basicly you can go as thin as you electronics will let you   The wood is plenty strong.  As long as the pickups and pots and such can handle it than your good to go.  Remember you won't be able to use a trem...

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Aye, I thought about the trem, and i'm happier using a TOM (as I have 1 spare also). As for the electrics, I also thought about that, and what I would do is not have neck angle and raise the neck a little to match the height of the TOM this will allow the pickups to sit a little higher out of the body so that the amount of routing would generally be less. (pup's will be direct mounted to the body)

I havn't measured how much depth i'll need for a jack plug though, but maybe a strat style front-facing one would require less of a cavity?

I think I was more worried about the strength of the wood, so with you and others putting me straight on that, it seems it might be possible.

Cheers for the input.

[westhemann]

Wes, the actual wood i've got is 53mm so taking into consideration re-sawing and sanding it will be approx 25mm.

i doubt it seriously..but go ahead

[jay5]

Ummmmmmmm, maybe Im missing somthing here. Figure you get a generous 23mm after resawing (53mm still wont give you 25mm halves). Now you have a 20-21mm neck as Perry pointed out, thats about 3/4" which is standard fender style heel thickness (not saying thats the rout your going, just making an argument) .That leaves you oh, 5-7mm of wood behind the heel with a modest 5/8" pocket depth. Im no engineer but I imagine the strain on that bit of material might be a bit more than it can handle, especially if you do a bolt on. You would have to set the heel pretty far into the body to give yourself enough area on the sides to support that thin area, no Fender style heel. I just dont think it will work. I would love to be proved wrong, but I think your just trying to go too thin here.

[rhoads56]

I woud have appreciated some of your experience and insight more than a slightly negative comment. C'est le vie.

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Because you take everything so personally, i'll make a definate effort to never involve myself in your threads any longer. That way you cant possibly get upset.

Edited September 6, 2005 by rhoads56

[ByronBlack]

Ummmmmmmm, maybe Im missing somthing here. Figure you get a generous 23mm after resawing (53mm still wont give you 25mm halves). Now you have a 20-21mm neck as Perry pointed out, thats about 3/4" which is standard fender style heel thickness (not saying thats the rout your going, just making an argument) .That leaves you oh, 5-7mm of wood behind the heel with a modest 5/8" pocket depth. Im no engineer but I imagine the strain on that bit of material might be a bit more than it can handle, especially if you do a bolt on. You would have to set the heel pretty far into the body to give yourself enough area on the sides to support that thin area, no Fender style heel. I just dont think it will work. I would love to be proved wrong, but I think your just trying to go too thin here.

←

Well, i'll check the thickness after re-sawing to be on the safe-side, if its too thin then i'll cap it. Just as an aside, the kerf on my bandsaw is about 1.5mm so resawing 53mm should be about 25 otherwise if its 23 then thats a 7mm loss during a re-saw, is that right?

As for the neck heel, I was going to have the neck set in quite far into the body (almost to the bridge pickup), the fingerboard will be slightly raised anyway to avoid the neck angle for use with the TOM, so I could still go with a 23-25mm neck which should allow a pretty big gluing area and enough wood to create a nice heel.

I think I shall draw this out in some plans.. thanks for all your input, you've given me a number of issues I need to look at - which was what I hoping for. Thanks

[ByronBlack]

I woud have appreciated some of your experience and insight more than a slightly negative comment. C'est le vie.

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Because you take everything so personally, i'll make a definate effort to never involve myself in your threads any longer. That way you cant possibly get upset.

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Perry, its not that I take everything you post personaly, but I feel that your last post was overly negative to what I thought was a genuine question that could have been answered by someone of your experience, thats all.

But if you feel you don't want help out anymore, then I respect your decision.

[jay5]

[westhemann]

Well, i'll check the thickness after re-sawing to be on the safe-side, if its too thin then i'll cap it. Just as an aside, the kerf on my bandsaw is about 1.5mm so resawing 53mm should be about 25 otherwise if its 23 then thats a 7mm loss during a re-saw, is that right?

get it resawn before you make that assumption.you are likely to lose much more than that in the thicknessing afterwards

[westhemann]

look....you ae going to end up with a guitar that is too thin.bottom line.

i personally think you should just use it as a cap on some mahogany and go that direction with it.

[ByronBlack]

You have to understand that Perry's tone generally comes across as that of an ass. 90% of the time he doesnt feel the need to post anything helpful (here I suppose he did). You just need to latch onto the few nuggets he is so generous to drop on us from time to time I suppose. Dont take it personally, he does it to everyone.

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Fair enough Jay, but I really wasn't taking it personaly. I have done with some of his other posts, but not this, but either way, i'm really grateful for everyone's input here.

I've started making some drawings here on paper - and with a little jiggery-pokery, I think its going to be possible - aslong as the wood is no thinner than 25mm..

When i've completed the drawings, i'll post them here so you lot can cast your beady eye's over and see if i've mis-calcuated anthing.

[ByronBlack]

look....you ae going to end up with a guitar that is too thin.bottom line.

i personally think you should just use it as a cap on some mahogany and go that direction with it.

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Wes, I'll certainly use it as a cap if it does come out too thin, or, I have some nice 5mm curly maple that I could cap it with - either way I agree with you that its best to use as a cap if its too thin.

[westhemann]

You have to understand that Perry's tone generally comes across as that of an ass. 90% of the time he doesnt feel the need to post anything helpful (here I suppose he did). You just need to latch onto the few nuggets he is so generous to drop on us from time to time I suppose. Dont take it personally, he does it to everyone.

???

Some people cant see the forrest for the trees.... they over analyse everything, instead of just getting their hands dirty....

How thick is your neck?? Oh, 20-21mmm.... That seems to be holding up fine doesnt it....

How wide is your neck?? Oh, about 6-8 times narrower than the body....

←

there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this post...

i guess you guys have never had a teacher who wanted you to learn badly enough that he was a bit abrupt?

you question,question,question the heck out of everything,and then when you get your answer,if you read into it that the person might seem a bit condescending,then you attack him as if he was not good enough to answer your question in the first place.

you want it just given to you every time you ask,and perry,i,and some others would rather teach you how to RESEARCH,like you should have been taught in school before you ever got old enough to want to build anything.

that is what school is SUPPOSED to be about...learning how to find the answers for yourself rather than just giving you a spoon fed answer every time.

some of you guys need to learn how to apply logic and research to help yourselves as much as possible,and use resources such as this forum for the rest.

your question is perfectly reasonable...and perry not only told you the answer ,he told you the "why" of it as well.

but you don't care.you would rather have everybody treat you as if you were already an experienced builder...well guess what?you are not yet.that is the nature of life...when you don't know,you need to show respect and a willingness to learn...and eventually,if you have the right abilities and attitude,you will be the guy answering the questions....yes,the same questions...over and over and over...until you start to just say "do a search" and move on...and then the new guys will think you are the one being rude.

don't bother trying to rebutt what i just said.you will be wasting your time because i am not going to answer .

and yes,perry just types,he does not try to protect anyone's feelings.he uses the same tone with me as well when he disagrees...i can handle it,why can't you guys?

edit this post may come across as harsh...but all i am trying to do is get you guys into learning mode instead of whining mode

[octafish]

Who says 9" is too narrow for a guitar?? I remember playing a friend's headless "wild stallions" type quitar in the late 80's that was 8" at the most.

[rhoads56]

You have to understand that Perry's tone generally comes across as that of an ass. 90% of the time he doesnt feel the need to post anything helpful (here I suppose he did). You just need to latch onto the few nuggets he is so generous to drop on us from time to time I suppose. Dont take it personally, he does it to everyone.

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If i ever see you calling anyone an "ass" again, you'll be on vacation. This is your last warning

[westhemann]

Who says 9" is too narrow for a guitar?? I remember playing a friend's headless "wild stallions" type quitar in the late 80's that was 8" at the most.

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that is called a steinberger

[rhoads56]

and yes,perry just types,he does not try to protect anyone's feelings.he uses the same tone with me as well when he disagrees...i can handle it,why can't you guys?

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I dont have time to make frilly pretty posts. If i had to do that, i wouldnt post. I get on here WHILE im working, and take time out of my business to assist. This is viewed as work to me, everyone else see's it as a hobby, and "fun".

Good post Wes.

[jay5]

I will rebutt, thank you very much. I dont have any issue with Perry's tone or his choice to rarely offer any help. He seems to prefer complaining about people's incompitance than anything else. So be it. Anyone can tell someone they need to search for somthing. I will be the first to admit that many times it is indeed waranted. I am not going to say that his post in this case was not informative. My post, which you apparently didnt understand was pointing out to Byron that Perry is generally abrasive and that he shouldnt expect anything other than a short, condecending spat of words. Granted, he did essentially answer the question (this time), I just wanted Byron to be aware that the response wasnt unusally harsh, just typical fare. Wes, you need to come down from the little throne of pretenciousness you have been on recently.

If i ever see you calling anyone an "ass" again, you'll be on vacation. This is your last warning

Thats interesting that my first warning is also my last. You can come across as somthing without truly being that thing. I have never met you, I dont know you. All I have to go on is what you type here on the board. I have to constantly remind myself that it is exceptionally hard to judge people's personality and emotion on the internet. I think too many people forget that. I have nothing against you. Ass might have been a bit harsh. Consider that statement retracted.