Placing the bridge.

[Jehle]

Speaking of things that Melvyn glosses over in the book, he never really states how to correctly place a bridge.

I've measured, and know where the bridge should go, per se. But, how should I accomidate for the "slop" of intonation?

Should I center the bridge saddles and place the bridge there? Or, is it better to move the bridge slightly forward or back?

Is there a rule of thumb that y'all use?

I really want to get this right the first time.

[daveq]

What type of bridge are you using?

[rob]

I did put it about 5 mm frim where you marked

P.S Quick post rawks!

[Jehle]

What type of bridge are you using?

Sorry, should have known better than to leave that out. It's a hard tail, Strat-type bridge. The strings will go through the body so I will have to drill a lot of holes. This just increases my anxiety about getting in the right place the first time.

I did put it about 5 mm frim where you marked

Which direction? 5mm twards the neck? 5mm away from the neck?

[GEdwardJones]

Just a thought, 'cos this is all new to me as well.

Adjust the saddles so they're smack dab in the middle of their travel range.

Put the bridge so that the saddles are in the proper position for the scale length (that is, 24.75"/25"/25.5" from the nut) then mount the bridge.

That way you have the max possible intonation adjustment in either direction.

[Jehle]

That was my first thought, and probably what I will end up doing. It was just another moment of, "It can't be this simple."

[daveq]

I don't have any experience with that type of bridge but I will check my books in about 1 hr. and let you know if I find anything. My concern would be that a straight bridge (perpendicular to the center line) would give you max adjustment for the lower E but not for the upper strings since they are typically set close towards the neck. I think this is why some hard tails are mounted at an angle further away from the neck for the low E. Again, I don't know this for sure but I will look into it and let you know what I find.

Dave

[daveq]

Here's something to look at in the mean time. I apologize if this is information you already know and I'm not helping. This is a picture of a bridge which I think is mounted at a slight angle :

Pic of Bridge

I will check my books anyway.

[Guitarfrenzy]

Speaking of things that Melvyn glosses over in the book, he never really states how to correctly place a bridge.

Yeah, at first I thought the book was awesome, since the first couple of chapters was really well written. Then when the "First Guitar" chapter came up, I was excited, but after reading it, all I did was scratch my head.. lol.. It just leaves out alot of stuff and doesn't explain it very well... and the bridge is one of the things he fails to even mention. I found nowhere in that chapter where he told how to find the exact location to place the bridge. Other things he's very unclear on are, neck pocket dimensions, pickup placements, actually he didn't even explain how to build a neck very good. Wish he'd gave exact measurements since he was showing you how to build a guitar he designed, but he only gave vague descriptions of it. But all in all I did learn alot from the book, and hope he does make it better. I had already had the book that Dan Erlewine wrote, and it tells exactly how to do it and his book wasn't even about building a guitar.. just repairing. But I'll reread my book tonight to see what Dan says about placing a strat bridge, I remember him talking about it but I don't have a very good memory... lol

All in all the book Dan Erlewine wrote is much better... and actually goes in depth on finishing, which was one thing Melyvn failed at miserably.

[krazyderek]

HAVE NO FEAR!!!! I IS HERE!!!

lol ok, i deal exclusively with hardtails and i've spent late night after late night thinking about the same thing, after all those measurements where done i came up with this. Also based on what it says in my floyd rose installation book.

adjust the high e saddle as far forward (towards the neck)as it will go and still stay on the screw (use some common sense here people).

now move it back 0.050"-0.075" (1/16") that should give you plenty of room to move forward should you need to (you probably won't)

now use the high E saddle as your scale ponit and line it up with your scale mark on the body, make sure it's square then drill. Well... lol check to make sure all your saddles have clear view of the holes wich the strings must pass thru under them, because if you adjust the saddle to far back (at least on my bridge) you'll over shoot the string hole.

hope that helps.

D...

[rhoads56]

Yep, Derek pretty much has nailed this one.

Just remember, the string length, can never be shorter than the scale length, but it can be longer. And the thicker the string, the further back the saddle will have to be placed.

I place the bridge a millimeter or two forward (towards the nut), of where the exact scale length is, if the little "e" is adjusted all the way forward.

[Jehle]

HAVE NO FEAR!!!! I IS HERE!!!

lol ok, i deal exclusively with hardtails and i've spent late night after late night thinking about the same thing, after all those measurements where done i came up with this. Also based on what it says in my floyd rose installation book.

adjust the high e saddle as far forward (towards the neck)as it will go and still stay on the screw (use some common sense here people).

now move it back 0.050"-0.075" (1/16") that should give you plenty of room to move forward should you need to (you probably won't)

now use the high E saddle as your scale ponit and line it up with your scale mark on the body, make sure it's square then drill. Well... lol check to make sure all your saddles have clear view of the holes wich the strings must pass thru under them, because if you adjust the saddle to far back (at least on my bridge) you'll over shoot the string hole.

hope that helps.

D...

So, the rule of thumb would be, 99% of the time you need to make the string length longer, not shorter, so give yourself the maximum amount of room of adjustment that way.

Sounds like a good recipe to me.

I have some Floyd installation instructions (vintage 1985 too). I'll check to see what they say about bridge placement.

I do think that once there's a decent description of how to do this, that there should be a simple "Guitar 101 : Get it right the first time" tutorial for this sort of basic thing. Setting a neck is another simple but potentially disasterous operation too.

[daveq]

The Kotch book verifies what was said above pretty much. He says to place all of the saddles towards the neck and then place the bridge at the scale length. The saddles are then moved back when setting the intonation to make up for the increase in pitch caused by pressing down on the strings.

I guess the major manufacturers like the one I posted a link to above use the slant to gain a little extra room for intonation?

[krazyderek]

that would be correct because tune-o-matic style bridges have about 3/4 the room to adjust intonation as fender style bridges

with andged back necks, i think you'd want to move the saddles back 0.100" just to be safe, unless you use a ruler on the angled neck to check the scale point on the body instead of a mark on the wood.. cause then won't there be a human/parallel axis problem?

[Guitarfrenzy]

Derek is right about this.. I remember reading about it in the Dan Erlewine book.. when I get home I can directly quote him.. but alas. you'll not find this kinda information in Merlyn's book.. unfortunately

[Jehle]

A tune-o-matic bridge scares me now. I'm just trying to set a dumb old strat hard tail.

I've seen some pictures of Les Paul Jr's recently. There's no intonation at all. Just a stop tail piece/bridge combo unit that you can change the angle of. Even the mounting posts are off set at an angle. Scary.

[Jehle]

Derek is right about this.. I remember reading about it in the Dan Erlewine book.. when I get home I can directly quote him.. but alas. you'll not find this kinda information in Merlyn's book.. unfortunately

Melvyn probably glossed over it because this really has been a much more difficult problem than what it appears to be.

Sure there's a trick to it, but it seems like depending on the bridge and neck angle you will have to compensate differently.

[Guitarfrenzy]

that's why I'd never use that type of bridge... not that I don't think I could get it right.. but, you can't get the intonation as precise with them.. obviously lol

[guitar_ed]

When I built my Walnut guitar (hardtail strat bridge) I measured out the Tele scale, put the saddles in the middle of the bridge, and centered the saddles on the line. End of story. Works just fine for me.

Guitar Ed

[Roli]

This is from an acoustic tutorial I've found on PG, but I think it's very helpful in this case: Bridge placement

[mullmuzzler]

I have similar problem: I need *exact* dimensions and a position for a fixed strat-type bridge (like on the 90th PGM model) - distance from the bridge humbucker or any other refference point. Any info will help.

mullmuzzler | OSSMT

[Jehle]

I have similar problem: I need *exact* dimensions and a position for a fixed strat-type bridge (like on the 90th PGM model) - distance from the bridge humbucker or any other refference point. Any info will help.

mullmuzzler | OSSMT

I think Derek's tip says it all.

Move your saddles forward and use that as your scale length position. Leave more room to adjust the string longer, and little (1/16" or so) to make it shorter.

How to find the bridge position? Measure the distance from the nut to the 12th fret. Transfer that distance from the 12th to the scale length position. The bridge needs to be placed there so that the saddles fall on the scale length position.

That's my plan at the moment, it may change after I do some very careful measurement.

[Setch]

The reason Melvyn 'glosses over' issues like bridge placement etc is because the fine details change from instrument to instrument, and very small alterations to variables can make significant differences. As such, many builders would rather let you work out the correct position rather than tell you an incorrect one. This is frustrating at first, when you are seeking a hard and fast position to get your guitar built, but it's just how it is.

As stated early on the intention of build your own guitar is to lay out the fundamentals of instrument building, not to tell you how to build a particular guitar. The instructions given can seem sketchy, but given the sheer bredth of topics which will be touched on when trying to examine guitar building as a whole, rather than specific designs, this is inevitable, at least if you want a book which can be carried from living room to workshop without a forklift...

Anyone stressing tunamatic placement can just do what I did - install the stop tail, then sit the tunamatic on the guitar top, string the guitar, and shim the bridge to a working height. Then, intonate the guitar with the saddles in an approximately central position. Mark the position of the bridge, and drill the holes You can be pretty certain that even if your setup changes a little you'll still have enough adjustment to compensate.

[Guitarfrenzy]

The reason Melvyn 'glosses over' issues like bridge placement etc is because the fine details change from instrument to instrument, and very small alterations to variables can make significant differences. As such, many builders would rather let you work out the correct position rather than tell you an incorrect one. This is frustrating at first, when you are seeking a hard and fast position to get your guitar built, but it's just how it is.

As stated early on the intention of build your own guitar is to lay out the fundamentals of instrument building, not to tell you how to build a particular guitar. The instructions given can seem sketchy, but given the sheer bredth of topics which will be touched on when trying to examine guitar building as a whole, rather than specific designs, this is inevitable, at least if you want a book which can be carried from living room to workshop without a forklift...

We'll I think that he should show us exact dimension since it was one he designed for the "First Guitar". Why not show the exact dimensions? Or at least give some tips and tell how to find where to put the bridge. I think the book is great, but fails to show you step by step instuctions which is what is needed for your first couple of guitars since you don't have any experience. So basically what I guess I'm saying is that since the chapters that give instructions on building an already predesigned guitar should have step by step instructions, since that's what your building his guitar design not something you created..

Matt

[Setch]

So basically what I guess I'm saying is that since the chapters that give instructions on building an already predesigned guitar should have step by step instructions, since that's what your building his guitar design not something you created..

I think the whole point is providing a grounding in what is required to design *your own* guitar, rather than writing an instruction booklet telling you how to build someone elses design. I know many people may use the example chapters as guides to build their first guitar, but I don't believe this was intended, hence not including plans or hard and fast measurements for the instruments he builds.