smokeyjocustoms Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 I'm new as most people already know. So, I may be asking a question that has been asked before..... If I'm cutting Fret Slots in the fingerboard, what different kind of saws can i use? Are these saws I can buy at say Lowes or someplace like that? Thank you for the help everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 We'll not sure, but your gonna want a kerf(width of cut) of around .024" width will usually work on most fretwire sizes. If it cuts the slot too wide the tangs wont grab and won't seat at all. That's just something I choose to buy from StewMac, since I didn't have a way to measure the ones I started to buy at a local hardwood store. Let me know what you find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyjocustoms Posted September 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Yes, I read somewhere about the Kerf size, but have no idea how to measure such small width...I will let you know what I find out..... Anyone else please, feel free to reply with suggestions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Actually the best way I know of is using a pair of calipers.. or better yet.. digital calipers which will show you an easy to see readout of it.. but I didn't have any at the time.. You could also compare it to feeler guages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 ya i just asked to use a set of digital ones they had at a store, leevalley tools in canada carries a saw that 0.019 kerf.. i think it's about 30$ CAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 What's the actual name of those saws, backsaw? I'm thinking thats what the ones I saw at Lowes was called that looked the same as the stewmac models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 I think this is the only one that was narrow enough to do frets, all the other ones were like 0.030 something.. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?pag...currency=2&SID= and i looked it up in american currency for ya guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 nice work derek.. thanks for link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyjocustoms Posted September 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Thank you Derek.....I appreciate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 well the dozuki from lee valley is actually a buck more then then the stew mac saw (holly crap) so but the dozuki is EXTREMELY sharp, and has a longer blade.. and it's also narrower, so the frets will be air tight if you press them in good... just something to consider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 First time I saw the picture in that link I thought I was looking at a fine arts cooking show tool thats "southern voice" purdy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 The Stanley Dove tail saw also has a 0.024" kerf and works perfectly I just bought one for R79 (about $10). I added a piece of clear plastic like the Stew-Mac saw for getting the depth right. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 well the dozuki from lee valley is actually a buck more then then the stew mac saw (holly crap) so but the dozuki is EXTREMELY sharp, and has a longer blade.. and it's also narrower, so the frets will be air tight if you press them in good... just something to consider Yep, so air tight not even 1/2 tonne of pressure will seat those frets. I have that saw, i have stew mac frets, and i have a 1/2 tonne arbor press for fretting. Even if i adjust the truss rod so the neck blank is VERY back bowed, the frets STILL do not seat. Even if you did manage to force them into the undersized fret slot, your neck will back bow beyond the limit of adjustment within your truss rod. Forget it, buy the correct tool. Or, buy your boards pre-cut. You can readjust the set of the japanese saws, but i wouldnt bother, and i have the correct tools to do it. It is soooo fiddly, its a joke (yes i have done it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 did you try it with any other kinds of frets, i thought stew mack made their fret tang's kinda wide.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Listen to Rhoads - you want those slots the right size, or you're in for a world or hurt. Many things in the world of luthiery can be "close enough". Fret slotting is not one of these things. Not wishing to appear rude, I'd question how appropriate it is for people who've never done a fret job to comment on the subject, let alone recommend tools they have no personal experience of. At the very least I'd encourage people to state whether they are referencing personal experience or speculation when they post, lest somebody be misled into a dangerous practice or costly mistake. In that spirit, I've also heard the Stanley dovetail saw is the correct width for fret slotting, but I haven't personally verified this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Not wishing to appear rude, I'd question how appropriate it is for people who've never done a fret job to comment on the subject, let alone recommend tools they have no personal experience of. At the very least I'd encourage people to state whether they are referencing personal experience or speculation when they post, lest somebody be misled into a dangerous practice or costly mistake. Its about time someone said that.... did you try it with any other kinds of frets, i thought stew mack made their fret tang's kinda wide.. 0.024 is the size of the fret slot you need. The fret tangs will vary from batch to batch. But you dont honestly think Stew Mac makes their own wire do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 not wishing to appear like a snotty brat, but... dunlop wire runs from 0.020 - 0.024 in tang thickness, so if you were getting say.. the Dunlop 6130 gibson jumbo wire, the tang is 0.020, so a 0.019 saw would be "close enough" (I THINK), if i'm wrong there let me know. For wire like 0.024 the saw may very well be the incorrect size. I'm sorry to go misleading people the kerf is 0.019 on the dozuki and i said it was "narrower" then the stew mac saw. As for the stew mac wire, i have no idea, i know they make some of their products but i have no idea which ones they make and which others they are just the distributor for. Next time i will be sure to write a big long paragraph about weather or not i have a personal experience with the tool i am suggesting or not, the exact limitations of the tool to the best of my knowledge, and my experience in sed feild of guitar work. BTW i have only done one fret job, it did turn out well, however this does still qualify me as a newb at best. So sorry if i ticked anyone off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 not wishing to appear like a snotty brat, but... dunlop wire runs from 0.020 - 0.024 in tang thickness, so if you were getting say.. the Dunlop 6130 gibson jumbo wire, the tang is 0.020, so a 0.019 saw would be "close enough" (I THINK), if i'm wrong there let me know. For wire like 0.024 the saw may very well be the incorrect size. I'm sorry to go misleading people the kerf is 0.019 on the dozuki and i said it was "narrower" then the stew mac saw. Your wrong. If you re-read the dunlop website, they specify the tang can be .002 - or +. So, you could get a batch of .022. I suggest you by Dan's/Stew Mac's Fretting book, it will explain why and how to use particular fret tang widths. Use the right tools for the job, stop trying to save $2, or make something 5% faster. When and IF you start building for a living, THEN start trying to take shortcuts. Personally, for the volume your doing, just by the damn fretboards already pre-slotted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 buying the fretboards preslotted is good if all you want is ebony,rosewood,or pau ferro...etc. but the man likes purpleheart.and he is also learning by doing,no matter the volume.just like about 80% of the forum.and if you come down so harshly on people for mistakes in thir information,then others will be hesitant to post thier ideas and questions for fear of being struck down.which is not exactly a learning environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 buying the fretboards preslotted is good if all you want is ebony,rosewood,or pau ferro...etc. but the man likes purpleheart.and he is also learning by doing,no matter the volume.just like about 80% of the forum.and if you come down so harshly on people for mistakes in thir information,then others will be hesitant to post thier ideas and questions for fear of being struck down.which is not exactly a learning environment. Amen! This is Project guitar,not Quantity Volume Next Industry Giant .com It might be fun fretting your one and only guitar. Do it how you want,and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 not wishing to appear like a snotty brat, but... dunlop wire runs from 0.020 - 0.024 in tang thickness, so if you were getting say.. the Dunlop 6130 gibson jumbo wire, the tang is 0.020, so a 0.019 saw would be "close enough" (I THINK), if i'm wrong there let me know. For wire like 0.024 the saw may very well be the incorrect size. I'm sorry to go misleading people the kerf is 0.019 on the dozuki and i said it was "narrower" then the stew mac saw. Your wrong. If you re-read the dunlop website, they specify the tang can be .002 - or +. So, you could get a batch of .022. I suggest you by Dan's/Stew Mac's Fretting book, it will explain why and how to use particular fret tang widths. Use the right tools for the job, stop trying to save $2, or make something 5% faster. When and IF you start building for a living, THEN start trying to take shortcuts. Personally, for the volume your doing, just by the damn fretboards already pre-slotted... I don't need to re read the dunlop site cause i read the +- values the first time i was there, and say if you got a batch that ended up being -0.002 wouldn't that mean that your 0.024 saw would make to big a groove there for a 0.018 tang? Even with a more probably 0.020 tang for that fretwire your 0.024 saw would still be cutting to big, wouldn't you have to use some filler in that case? or would +0.004 be ok? is to big ok? just as long as it's not -0.002 or -0.001 (as long as the slot isn't to narrow)? Secondly, i said the saw was a buck MORE then the stew mac saw. So in other words i was implying, GET the stew mac one cause it's cheaper, and also since the dozuki is narrower, it's probably wiser to get the stew mac one. At no point did i say "get the one i said cause it's better and cheaper" Third... i spend alot of time working on guitars, i don't rush anything, i work as precisely as my hands alow, and i weigh the pro's and con's of every single thing i do that's guitar related before i take any action. I admit i am new and not as wise and experienced as someone like you. But telling me i'm taking short cuts, that's turning into kind of a stereotype there, maybe even a personal insult?.. especially since you've never seen me work And fourth, buying preslotted fretboards and alot of other supplies from US is kinda of a pain cause i'm in canada, so everything is a bit pricier for me cause of the exchange rate, and the fact that i have to pay taxes and duties when ever something crosses the border, not to mention the added shipping prices, lol and of course i like purple heart But you are right about one thing, i do need to learn more, and i'll try to every chance i can, i'm just trying to help out here as much as i can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyjocustoms Posted September 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Thank you for the Info.... I greatly appreciate all the help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Looking foward to seeing that stuff Derek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeyjocustoms Posted September 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 I found a saw today at Woodworker's Warehouse. It comes with three blades. One blade is perfect for fret slots... I only paid 10.00 for the saw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnuk Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Can't frets be set in glue to avoid all these problems? On Warmoths site they explain how they fill the slots with glue then seat the frets. "Using a special injection system, we apply a thick gel type of super glue to the entire length of the fret slot. The fretwire is then pressed into the glued slot. It is significant to note that there is an oil film on the fretwire. This oil prevents the glue from bonding to the fret. The fret is locked into the fingerboard as the super glue back-fills in behind the barbs on the fret tang. The end result is that the wood is still free to expand and contract with seasonal humidity changes, without splitting, and the frets never pop up! Because the glue is not bonded directly to the fret, there is no increased difficulty encountered during subsequent refrets. The last step is then to fill any gap at the bottom of the fret slot with the same gel glue" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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