verhoevenc Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Hey, I was just wondering, when you guys are using titebond glue to glue up your woods, how long do you keep it clamped? Do you do the 30 minute clamped time like the bottle says, or do you keep your clamps on there longer? How long? CHris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 (edited) No matter what glue I'm using I always just wait "overnight". The last time I rushed things I had a fretboard pop off when I first flexed the truss rod. Edited September 22, 2006 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I think the official answer depends a bit on temp and humidity... but 45 min to one hour in the clamps works fine with titebond origional. It is not completely dry until overnight, and obviously will not be at full strength until then, but it doesnt need to be in clamps after an hour. I also know that fender vacuum bags their maple tops for exactly 1 hour with titebond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 A couple hours min. clamped. I make sure not to stress the joint unless it has dried overnight. Example- I may drop a rosette in place, or join binding strips and remove the clamps after a couple hours. However if I glue something like a soundboard it remains clamped overnight min. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Glue it, try and find something else to do (like go buy tools and stuff!) whilst it's clamped. I've found that eating or going to work is a sufficient enough interlude after the glueing process :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopolis Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 yeah, I used the overnite method first... but then we used Titebond 3 and he told me just wait a hour.. I waited one and a half and its still perfect.. im kinda sketchy on waiting that short on the fretboard though look at the bottle, it even says dont leave it clamped to long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I presume the clamping should be maintained only for the duration of the adhesive "grabbing" and left to it's own devices under no extra pressures whilst it cures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I have left it as little as 30 minutes with a small, passive joint, but I usually leave at least 1 hour, and if I have any inkling that the joint may want to creep at all, I leave it overnight. What ever I do I avoid stressing the joint until it's had overnight to cure. That said, I have glued up headstock ears, and planed them flush within 45 minutes, but you need to keep your plane *sharp*! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Anything having to do with joining (like body & neck blanks), fretboards and drop tops, 24 hrs. But I build in the evenings after work, so I can take my time. Everything else, overnight (then I can take it to work with me and work on it during my lunch hour). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Like Setch said, you can work on it in about an hour or less but don't stress it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 An hour for most Titebond glues, then dont stress the joint. I like to get my clamps availible for other tasks if needed. MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 An hour for most Titebond glues, then dont stress the joint. I like to get my clamps availible for other tasks if needed. MK You need more clamps but man don't we all Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inisheer Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Hmmm, whenever I've glued things before, I kept the clamps on for 24 hours. But you all seem to take them off after an hour or so. Is it bad to leave the clamps on longer, does that make the joint weaker? I hope I haven't ruined my projects..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Hmmm, whenever I've glued things before, I kept the clamps on for 24 hours. But you all seem to take them off after an hour or so. Is it bad to leave the clamps on longer, does that make the joint weaker? I hope I haven't ruined my projects..... No, it's not bad to leave the clamps on longer. But it's definitely not good to stress the joints after 30 minutes. Don't strengthen the clamps and don't weaken them after this period, you'll screw your glue joint up easily. Depends on what time schedule I'm on. I usually leave my bodies / necks clamped for 4-24 hours. I have done 2 bodies in the past with only 4 hours glue / clamp time and it planed nicely after that. Other than that, always 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I don't think it's a case of "leaving the clamps on too long" ruins a joint, but I guess following the manufacturers instructions makes for a better joint on the whole. Good clamping practice would also help. Too much pressure can cause problems when the piece "releases" into a passive state. What I'm getting at is, you are unlikely to have ruined any pieces unless you glaringly went against the natural laws of Titebond, like glueing outdoors in monsoon season or applying excessive pressures from the clamps which the piece wouldn't normally have to endure in it's unclamped state :-) Anybody had any negative experiences when glueing up, so we can have a comparative result? Like a "what not to do because I did it once"...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Try this on for size: scroll down about 1/4 until you see "Carpenter glues are totally unsuitable in player pianos for these fundamental three reasons:" Hide glue vs Carpenter glue Not sure I buy his perceived downsides of carpenter's glue, as many many people have used Titebond for a long time with good success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I just finished glueing my first body together... Ill probably leave it alone for at least another 24 hours. It has slipped a tiny bit, but hopefully this wont matter much because its still yet to be thicknessed. Im filled with doubt like usual, worried that i didnt use enough glue, or used too much, or that it will arc a bit, but theres nothing i can do now but wait i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Personally, I've never used "hot hide glue", but it sounds like a bit of a pain to prepare and use. I can still remember my friend reminiscing about his glue pot fire that nearly wiped out his shop. I've got a couple types of glue here, some yellow stuff called "Pro-Bond" carpenter's glue and something called "Weld-Bond" , probl'y all out of the same vat. But its done the trick well enough for me. And its quick and easy, just grab a bottle and squirt! I guess if I was building acoustics I would probably use hide glue, its lighter, clearer and more natural. But in that area we are talking about apples and oranges. Acoustics deal with light, hollow structure employing braces for support whereas electrics involve glueing heavy, solid slabs of wood together. Which glue is more suitable? They say hide glue becomes brittle when cured, how would it stand up to expansion and contraction forces in a solid body electric? I would probably want something with a little more plasticity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I think that article was very much designed to poop on "carpenter's glue" and sell the benefits of hot hide. Also - there is a difference in the quality of "carpenter's yellow glue" used to glue birdtables up or glueing your wooden leg back together, to finer "woodworkers glue" such as Titebond which seems to have better clamping ability, and seems to require less product (ergo leaves less glue line potential). Plus fine woodworkers make more effort to provide clean and accurate glue joins and have better clamping practice. Last time I glued a bird table up, I can't recall sanding and trueing the joins using a planer and sanding block. I believe it was dowels and nails. Ah, inaccurate uninformed rant over :-) Here's my quick comparison: HOT HIDE Pro: Can be removed with application of heat, smells like poop Con: Can be removed with application of heat CARPENTERS Pro: Clean, not smelly, cheap, easy and simple to work with Con: Requires at least two brain cells to utilise correctly So there you go - my biased opinion also :-) In all seriousness - If you're experienced enough to use hot hide glue then fair enough. All methods have pros and cons, it's just understanding them and using each product to it's best advantage. Unless we start seeing the joins on millions of guitars around the world creeping or falling apart in the next two hundred years, I vote Titebond. Hide glue will always have it's place though. Same as Titebond. </quickly dons asbestos pants> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Hot hide shouldn't smell. It also, and this bears repeating ad nauseum, *does not release with heat*. It releases with heat *and* moisture, but without adding moisture to the joint it willstand up better to heat than any other glues. It's also better than carpenters glue (titebond etc) for certain jobs because it's self clamping, and doesn't creep. This is what the piano man was trying to say in his peculiar rambling style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Both glues have their advantages. If I was makng an instrument that needed to be taken apart to be serviced I would use Hide (it makes good sense). Hide glue is a very good. Titebond is very good. Personally I understand the ups and downs of both and prefer Titebond for most of the guitar work I do. I do keep hide glue around though. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Here's my quick comparison: HOT HIDE Pro: Can be removed with application of heat, smells like poop I'm not going to ask why "smells like poop" is a pro. I have had LOTS of gluing mistakes from my experience. I find it very very helpful to use bar / paralell jaw clamps for gluing bodies. C / G clamps for gluing necks with brass side supports. C / G clamps for gluing tops using MDF / plywood on the top and bottom of the body to evenly distribute pressure. Mistakes - Using too much water in the rag or Q-tip to clean up glue joints: It really does help to clean the glue up, but an overly damp rag or Q-tip can soak into the glue joint and dilute the outside of the glue. Thus causing a weak joint. This happend to me twice when attempting to scarf joint a bass neck. Not using a support on the outer sides of neck laminates: Even if the wood is planed down evenly, it can still shift a little when gluing, upwards, downwards, left or right, it can happen. This is a great example of neck gluing, by ACG guitars. http://static.flickr.com/94/258744543_bb6e5fcd5a.jpg At the ends of the neck, you have a clamp with a piece of wood on top and below the neck pressed down to keep the neck flat. On the sides, you have the support to keep it dead straight. I personally use wax paper beneath the small pieces that keep the neck flat. It's no fun removing clamp wood from a perfect neck.. or removing a perfect neck job from a table. I glued this neck to the plywood beneath, it took 10 minutes to remove it. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/Jons...tted/Head09.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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