Glass Nut?

[~john~]

little idea I've been wondering about for the last week, wanted to see what you all think. Good? bad? completely mad idea?

[unclej]

the first thing that comes to my mind is that glass breaks. the other is that you would need diamond grinding tools to cut it to size, to cut the string slots and to polish it. after you've gone to all that trouble i'm not sure that it would make the guitar sound any different than a good bone nut would sound. both are hard, dense material so other than just being able to say that you had something unique i'm not sure that there would be any advantage.

don't mean to be a downer 'cause a glass nut might be pretty cool. just my two cents worth.

[prauny]

I would of thought that a glass nut would not be strong enough to withstand the pressure of the strings and snap. You could always give it a go though.

[GuitarGuy]

I would of thought that a glass nut would not be strong enough to withstand the pressure of the strings and snap. You could always give it a go though.

It held up power lines for years. I think it would work, modifying it would be the problem. As far as making them, a press mold could work (like how they make pyrex dishes).

Cool idea but I dont think it is practical.

They could be very pretty tho. Swirls and stuff like a marble.

[prauny]

I would of thought that a glass nut would not be strong enough to withstand the pressure of the strings and snap. You could always give it a go though.

It held up power lines for years. I think it would work, modifying it would be the problem. As far as making them, a press mold could work (like how they make pyrex dishes).

Cool idea but I dont think it is practical.

They could be very pretty tho. Swirls and stuff like a marble.

We're talking something really thin here though dude. Where the slots will be, i think it would be weak spots. Especially under the thick E string.

[Grimzors]

How about making a mold, and injecting some kind of liquidy plastic material into it( like melted plastic in a tool) something like a glue gun kinda thing, then it hardens in the mold, that might work?

[aidlook]

How about making a mold, and injecting some kind of liquidy plastic material into it( like melted plastic in a tool) something like a glue gun kinda thing, then it hardens in the mold, that might work?

Yeah....if you wanna make a plastic nut...

[GuitarGuy]

We're talking something really thin here though dude. Where the slots will be, i think it would be weak spots. Especially under the thick E string.

ehhh...im not so sure. You can make all kind of trinkets out of glass. And the pressure at the nut is only a component of the actual string tension.

Look at it this way if you put a solid plate of glass on a flat table and stand on it . It wont break. Same thing with the nut. It is supported by the neck. The one variable is the nut slots. but as long as they are smooth and pressed in like in a press mould i can't see it creating a weak point.

But this is all pure speculation. .......Any glass hobbyiest in the house?

Edited November 24, 2006 by GuitarGuy

[RGman]

I used to work with glass, and my parents still do leadlighting as a hobby.

The glass shouldn't break, as guitar guy said. The reason for this is that it is supported from the bottom. If the nut wasn't installed it would be easily broken, one drop on any hard surface would crack the glass where the slots are cut.

I'm very sure this would work on a strat guitar, where there is more support than a gibson style nut, although if a strat style nut made from glass works, i'm sure a gibson nut would too.

Of course, the nut slots would need to be perfect, as their is still a risk of the nut breaking outwards on the two E's slots.

I could cut one up and slot it, but i don't have any guitars i would like to pull the nut out of right now to try it

Rgman.

[soapbarstrat]

If it is to fit firmly into the slot, as a nut should, then it would probably break while pressing it into the slot.

You can go "half way" by using something else that has glass in it, like certain kinds of Delrin with glass in them.

I even suspect the Tusq material has glass in it. It sure as heck sounds like it, when you rap a tusq blank onto something hard. a piece of fiberglass is not quite as bright sounding as the tusq material, but brighter than the other common nut materials.

If they made a full range of diamond nut slotting files, that would take care of making the string slots, except I think you'd get too much chipping on the edge of the glass.

Shaping the bottom of the nut, would be another problem, if you're going curved fender style (I machine that curve into the nut bottoms, but no way could I do it the same way on a piece of glass)

Besides all that, how would the damn thing sound ? (probably too bright)

[RGman]

If it is to fit firmly into the slot, as a nut should, then it would probably break while pressing it into the slot.

You can go "half way" by using something else that has glass in it, like certain kinds of Delrin with glass in them.

I even suspect the Tusq material has glass in it. It sure as heck sounds like it, when you rap a tusq blank onto something hard. a piece of fiberglass is not quite as bright sounding as the tusq material, but brighter than the other common nut materials.

If they made a full range of diamond nut slotting files, that would take care of making the string slots, except I think you'd get too much chipping on the edge of the glass.

Shaping the bottom of the nut, would be another problem, if you're going curved fender style (I machine that curve into the nut bottoms, but no way could I do it the same way on a piece of glass)

Besides all that, how would the damn thing sound ? (probably too bright)

It may break as you said, when pressing the nut into the slot, though it depends on how much pressure you use.

You can buy sheets of borosilicate glass, which is the same thing as pyrex and would work quite well, as for the sound? Maybe a bit bright?

[Southpa]

It might work if the strings go straight through the nut , like a strat style headstock, but I have my reservations. Forget about a 3/3 Gibson style headstock. There is a lot of sideways shear force from the angled strings and I'll bet the ends would pop off a glass nut in no time. Also, the slots need to be cut EXACTLY the same size as the string diameters you plan to use. Larger string will snap the glass when it tries to settle into the slot. Any material that has low shear strength (like glass) would be unsuitable for high lbs/sq. in. applications.

I figure almost everything has been tried at one time or another. If you don't see it already being sold then for some reason or other it simply does not work or is not economically feasible to make and/or put into production.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Southpa

[soapbarstrat]

You can buy sheets of borosilicate glass, which is the same thing as pyrex and would work quite well, as for the sound? Maybe a bit bright?

Please explain how it would "work quite well " ?

It would be quite easy to fabricate ?

It wouldn't break when being pressed into the slot, or chip when the string slots are being filed, or when it's strung up and the player bends strings down at that end of the nut ?

Is this whole deal what I think it is ?

(What I think it is : Kids in their teens to early 20's, thinking they've got great ideas for the guitar, that are better than what's already been done).

So, make a glass nut and please post pics.

[~john~]

How is something mean to be improved upon if everyone just ticks with whats already known? Its just an idea and i just wanted to see what you all think before it gets taken any further.

[soapbarstrat]

Well, maybe some guys who come up with ideas like this in the first place should just think : " I don't care what anyone says. I'm going to do this, and see for myself how it works".

The October 1981 issue of Guitar Player magazine has a guitar made out of stone. Someone thought it was a good enough idea to make it and supposedly even patent it. looks like it's taking a while to catch on.

I imagine they thought something like : " yeah, the harder the material the better. No one else is doing it, because the material is too hard for them to work with. But it will give bad-ass sustain, etc etc etc"

[ToneMonkey]

Didn't Gibson do a granite guitar that needed a stand to be played. I seem to remember something about that (it may well have been in the front of Mr Hiscox's book, but I may be wrong on that).

Anyway, how about a solid nut blank with no slots and some very careful drilling of the right size holes in the right places to accept the strings. Not saying this would be easy or even possible, but it would get rid of the weak points at the bottom of the slots.

Very occassionally I bump into the guy who runs Diamond Bottle Necks (he's a friend of a friend). If I remember to ask him during getting very drunk (which always seems to happen when we meet), I'll ask him.

[Jon]

(What I think it is : Kids in their teens to early 20's, thinking they've got great ideas for the guitar, that are better than what's already been done).

With all due respect, age is quite irrelevant.

Didn't Gibson do a granite guitar that needed a stand to be played. I seem to remember something about that (it may well have been in the front of Mr Hiscox's book, but I may be wrong on that).

I haven't heard anything about that - but I have seen granite fingerboards.

http://www.nexus-guitars.com/bmstonehengeo.html

[TimS]

It was Fender who did the granite guitar.

As for nut improvements, there have been plenty - delrin, graphite, floyd rose, the LSR roller nut, earvana...you get the idea. Glass would improve sustain, but it's very brittle, and while it would probably work for a while, I think the vibration of the strings coupled with the tension it carries would eventually break it over time.

Also, if you dropped the guitar or knocked into anything with the neck, chances are it would shatter.

[LiquidGuitars]

hello new here,

I have a small glass setup and can make one out of pyrex, it is very strong but dam if it snaps thats a lot of wasted engery...

I think the fender guitar was made from a counter top resin like corian not real stone as stated.

Edited December 1, 2006 by LiquidGuitars

[ihocky2]

I'm no expert on glass (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express, sorry had to be said) but there are certain types that are very strong. It all depends on the type of glass, how the nut would be made, and how it is supported. I wonder about something like safety glass like they use in car windows or office buildings. Pyrex would be the prefect type to use I think, you sould just have to fit the sting slots during the forming process, and not by cutting them in.

When thinking of new ideas, there really are no bad ideas. They might be too costly to be worth while, they might be too dificult to do, but rarely is it a stupid or bad idea. Guitars and pretty much everything else around us is here because some asked "I wonder?" or "What if"? 50 years ago people would have laughed at the idea of making cars with plastic body parts, and look at how well Saturn did with it.

[fryovanni]

Well, maybe some guys who come up with ideas like this in the first place should just think : " I don't care what anyone says. I'm going to do this, and see for myself how it works".

Thinking of an idea is good. Analysing with physics, mathmatics is smart, but a real model may prove your paper analysis is incomplete or flat out wrong. A concept is only the first step. If you never produce a real world model and overcome construction issues, deal with issues unforseen with paper analysis. If you don't build the model and study through observation and refine accordingly. You have achived NOTHING.

Build it and see what you think.

Peace,Rich