westhemann Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP...tar-?sku=511637 i am not one to usually say that really nice guitars are overpriced...but where is the return on your investment here?are you EVER going to get enough enjoyment out of this guitar to equal the price paid for it?i would at least like to see a neck pickup for some kind of tonal flexibility. is it nice?yes...of course...but i think there are many on this board who could recreate this instrument for about $1000 in parts at the most. i think i am going to get me a piece of ash and some maple and make one(i already have the bubinga) at least it has a poly finish so it might last a while if it is cared for. i just imagine if i paid this much for a guitar and didn't like the sound of it or something that i would be more than a bit dissapointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) I agree. It's a nice looking guitar, but $6k is crazy! The wood inlays are neat, but they are not enough to justify charging that much for an otherwise very basic guitar. I've always felt that high-end production guitars are too expensive. Why pay that much when you could get a full on custom from any number of world class luthiers for the same money? Plus, it's not even a signature model! Not that a celebrity endorsement would justify the price, but at least it might help explain it. Edited December 7, 2006 by fookgub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Irizarry Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP...tar-?sku=511637 i am not one to usually say that really nice guitars are overpriced...but where is the return on your investment here?are you EVER going to get enough enjoyment out of this guitar to equal the price paid for it?i would at least like to see a neck pickup for some kind of tonal flexibility. You have not gone insane. A $6300 price tag? I took a look - I don't see what I or anyone else would be paying for here. And, I'm with you - quite a few here could build this for a fraction of the cost. And, don't get me started on the Blackie replicas. Regards, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Yes there has to be a line drawn somewhere between function and the bells 'n whistles. A friend showed me his 25th anniv. Taylor acoustic one day. I decided to go online and see how much they were selling for. There was $1000 difference between the anniversary guitar and its normal counterpart. The only difference between the two was gold plated hardware and the XXV MOP inlay in the fretboard. But both guitars should play exactly the same. I guess its all for posterity and bragging rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Look at the control cavity cover. YUCK. Thats the ugliest shaped control cavity I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croaticum Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Yes, but you SAVE $1,579.01 (19%) When You Buy Today! lol. I think in this case the moast exencive thing on that guitar is ESP logo or maybe it has some diamonds hidden somevhere Edited December 7, 2006 by croaticum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 You know the funny thing is that you would possibly expect that from a Gibson or Fender, but ESP does not normally price guitars in that range. See-click. There is a point where typical price range for a brand name comes into play, and if they sell them for more normally I guess the assumption is they are worth more. If Ferrari introduced a line of compact economy cars do you think they would be cheap? The trick is. We think as builders, and maybe as collectors to a degree. Try to think more like a real estate agent. If you look at a house in this neighborhood it is worth $1,000,000. If you look at the same house in that neighborhood $600,000. If you build it yourself in the country $200,000 in materials and labor etc..Right wrong or indifferent thats marketing, supply and demand. So Wes you are right(ummm.. but you are probably still a bit crazy, just not insane ). Seems out of line in terms of future value, and present value. I doubt you would bring it in line with a boutique neck PU . Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_the_damned Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 wow that's a lot for one guitar. there's a place here that sells original 60's and 70's gibsons and fenders for a heck of a lot less than that! I s'pose someone will buy it and make ESP a huge profit but that's just silly money for a guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 you want to know what's crazier than that? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP...tar-?sku=511619 this one is $320 less...and it has the neck pickup dare me to buy it? by the way the ugly backplate is the exact same one they use on the $200 f models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 It's all about what it's worth to YOU. Some people drive Cobalts, some drive Corvettes. Both cars will get you where you're going, but one car is a little more exclusive and much more fun to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 what I find entertaining, really, is the fact that guitarists call a 2000 dollar (and up) instrument 'expensive'. look at any other instrument out there (any band, orchestra or other stringen stuff) for a bit of a reality check... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 what I find entertaining, really, is the fact that guitarists call a 2000 dollar (and up) instrument 'expensive'. look at any other instrument out there (any band, orchestra or other stringen stuff) for a bit of a reality check... yeah,but that's like saying a biscuit is not expensive because a hamburger costs much more. we all know what the hardware and wood costs US to buy...and we all know it costs the manufacturers much,much less...and they have access to cnc as well as everything else you ned to build a guitar lie that with much less labor than we would put into it,and yet it has probably close to a 500% markup or more over build costs cobalt vs corvette?that's no comparison.the corvette costs much more to build than the cobalt...hence the higher price tag...and a corvette is really priced reasonably. you should have said ferrari or porche or something. anway crafty,after that impassioned statement about (nose up in the air)"$6000 guitars are like a fine wine...either you are enlightened enough to get it,or you are not...harrumh!" then i fully expect you to buy it and get pictures of yourself in your $50,000 suit next to your corvette holding it and polishing it with grey poupon a fully handmade instrument exactly to your specs built by a proffesional by hand the entire way is one thing...but a cnc cutout m body with a little extra sanding and a fancy cut top?the overhead and man hours are much less per guitar,so the price should reflect imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Wes, All of the guitars you posted on ARE handmade in their respective manufacturer's custom shops. They may use duplicarvers, but I don't think Fender, Gibson, or ESP use CNCs in the custom shop. The Corvette vs. Cobalt comparison is fair, though. Both are made on assembly lines with a modicum of shared parts and systems, although they're completely different vehicles, and I'm sure you'd rather buy a Corvette Z06 over a Cobalt SS if money were no object. Just like I'm pretty sure if you had an extra $7k laying around and were a big ESP fanboi you'd jump on that M-2 like a fly on a rib roast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 i am just teasing you crafty...but you are right about one thing..if that guitar were $3000 AND a neck through...i would be all over it. want to see a real guitar? http://www.guitarvillage.co.uk/product-det...%2C+Inc%2E+Case they also make it in black...which is the one i really like and the corvette and cobalt do not share anything except paint colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 For the price that that ESP Urban Camo neck through costs you could probably get the (better) Ormsby version. Wes, I forget were you here for that build? If not I suggest you look at it, still one of my favorites Ormsby has put through here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 and the corvette and cobalt do not share anything except paint colors And stereos (head unit), steering wheels, GM Buslink wiring harnesses, BCM and PCM modules (albeit with slightly different programming), and other assorted parts bin components from the General...and I do have a thicker skin than you give me credit for, Wes BTW, you can usually hear me throwing it back at the Custom/Reissue guys over at the Les Paul Forum who think that the Production guitars are garbage compared to the Rx's they're laying out $4k for over at the Guitar Center. My '04 Classic sounds every bit as good as any other Les Paul out there, and I don't need a one piece mahogany body and $500 custom winds to slay their precious R9s in the heat of a solo battle royale. Oh, and I can usually hang with or beat up on the newb C6 drivers who think that my '95 C4 is just another piece of junkyard trash...until they see my tailights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 hehe..that made me chuckle,mick.. steering wheel,stereo,and copper wire?wow...that's a bit weak,don't you think,crafty?i think you forgot that they both roll on rubber tires. anyway nitefly...it's not the urban camo i want,it is the black version,same guitar exactly otherwise though.yes i saw perry's.it kicks major ass.i talked to perry about making a guitar for me once and he is very reasonably priced and a damn good guy,but being the honest guy he is,he talked me into shopping around in the states first to see if i could get what i wanted without having to deal with the whole import/export thing. personally i think that guitar he built is so cool that he should make it his "ormsby special" but to be perfectly honest,i AM an esp custom shop fanboy as crafty put it earlier.i have a thing for japanese guitars...i think that the japanese ibanez guitars are the best guitars in the world in the $1200 range and that esp japan are the best in the higher range(handbuilt customs from small builders aside) i just loved them ever since i first saw the original kh way back when.i played one at Austin City Music back in around '90 and i thought it was the best thing i ever felt(guitarwise i mean) i really was ecstatic when they started putting out the esp standard series,because finally a reasonably priced esp japan could be had,but i didn't feel they were making exactly what i wanted.but now they have the M II neck through,available in black,which is exactly the guitar i used to go to the esp custm site and spec up as what i wanted to have built,if i could ever afford it. it's actually a good thing in a way that MF cancelled my order...because i probably would have been dissapointed yet again in the lackof quality of the ltd line,and it frees me up to go after the M II and be done with it. oh,and by the way...MF responded in email and were exactly zero help at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Wes, All of the guitars you posted on ARE handmade in their respective manufacturer's custom shops. They may use duplicarvers, but I don't think Fender, Gibson, or ESP use CNCs in the custom shop. Don't be so sure! I know for a fact that the fender custom shop has a couple of Hass CNC machines. I would just about guarantee that the flame inlay on that ESP is entirely cut on a cnc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 the esp custom shop guitars are made through cnc i think.but that doesn't bother me as i have no problem with cnc...i just know that $6000 far outweighs the labor and materials...i mean by FAAAAARRRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 eh screw it...i have an unfinished neck through hanging on the wall at the house with a badly fit maple top i have been wondering what to do with.("building my neck through guitar"...remember that one?)it has an excellent fret board and neck and the fret job is finished and ready to go..i will just order a black kahler and turn it a solid color(black of corse)to hide the poorly fit top(i should have never listened to litch about soaking the maple to make the drop top...it swelled and didn't shrink back for a few days,at which time it created a hairline seam at the join) should make a fine guitar.it is alder,mahogany,walnut and maple.with bocote binding on the neck... viva la ressurection! wonder if i will still do the homer simpson inlayy at the 12th fret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Seems to me you spend an awful lot of time worrying about what other people think of you and the toys you choose. All the hip toughboy chatter aside. Learn to love yourself first, I say. Seems to me you spend an awful lot of time worrying about what other people think about themselves and giving advice that is neither needed, wanted, or even accurate. All the pompous and arrogant preaching aside. Learn to mind your own business first, I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 what happened to that thick skin you were bragging about,crafty? i think he has a point...hehe...self analysis can be devastating and a bruised ego can lash out...hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 what happened to that thick skin you were bragging about,crafty? i think he has a point...hehe...self analysis can be devastating and a bruised ego can lash out...hehe I'd prefer it if he'd quit analyzing ME and let me worry about doing the analysis myself. Believe me, Mick's had a while to work his way under my skin and it's really become more than irritating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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