Guitar Build-off?

[fryovanni]

Hmmm..

I dunno. I kinda think the idea of not knowing who built the guitar is cool. I also see keeping things 100% blind will negate interaction between the builders and forum members. Spot checking or requests for pictures? Kinda seems silly, but I understand what you are trying to avoid. Secrets, monitoring and spot checks, random UA's, documenting with news paper dates? I think we may be losing track of the friendly competition, and may be taking ourselfs a little too serious. If some chuckle head is not going to build. Well he won't build. If a loser wants to take the guitar to the local autobody shop and have them finish it-***they will, and their loss***. If you spot check and a person had family obligations that held up progress do you fine them? People who are going to build are going to build period, and the rest is going to be BS. If you want a start pic with raw wood and a date that could be simple enough, but keep it a minor thing sent to the PM's when they enter.

I do think it would be good to allow the Mods the oportunity to request additional pictures, close ups, re-takes. To allow for better visual inspection via photo's. This is cool though because it will really showcase the work better. Maybe we could set up some gallerys to hold the extra pics(lots of finish pics to review).

Peace,Rich

[verhoevenc]

I thinkt he idea of keeping all things hidden til the end is good. Saves idea stealing, etc. I don't think people need checking up on though. I like the idea of everyone heavily documenting, cause that'll help grow the tutorials section with some quality. I actually like the entrance fee thing, but for one reason: have we all forgotten that originally this was going to be a playability judging too? If it's just looks, the it's a glorified GOTM?? I think the entry fee should be held by the mods, at the time of judging, like I said before, a spot with high concentration of people we trust uses those entry fees to ship the guitars to said concentration for review and evaluation on play-ability. They then post the reviews, and then people can judge the reviews and pics to make their decisions to vote not oNLY on looks...

Chris

PS: Rich? We talkin' full jazzbox archtop!?!?!?

[Drak]

My ~gut~ feeling is that in the end, no one is going to ship these guitars all over the world, or even all over the country. I just don't see that part happening.

I could be wrong, but I rarely am.

[goat]

...keep DETAILED records of the builds,and at the end of the contest...post every entry in a step by step byuild manner(like a tutorial)all on the same day... get my point?

...and hold up the daily newspaper next to the builds when you take the photos, so we know when you were where in the build!

(Like old gangster ransome photos)

[fryovanni]

PS: Rich? We talkin' full jazzbox archtop!?!?!?

I dunno, I was kinda wanting to build one since we had been talking about them of and on. I am going to be building acoustics at the same time. As long as it is fun I will be happy with whatever I build(I like building just about any thing).

Drak- I was about to go off on a rant about the MIMF, but it went away . PG builds everything, and yeah

PG ROCKS

[WezV]

my suggestion with the newspaper thing was just to prevent those people that may think ' hey i built a ***** last year, i suppose i can enter that into the build off'. I didnt think it would be much of a deal to include a newspaper in the first build picture since we would probably be taking so many pictures anyway.

Not sure i like my fee idea yet, i know it certainly would not be large enough for me to ship my guitar around the world or no one would enter. I was thinking more of a token gesture that purely stops time wasters.

Personally i think this is probably something that should go on in the 'members only' area anyway and that would take care of a lot of time wasters - maybe something we could have in that area but move to the main section when we are finished, for the masses.

I am interested in taking part in this.

I dont mind either way if we do it as a closed secretive thing or completely open with us (me) stealing ideas of each other (you) as we progress

[goat]

my suggestion with the newspaper thing was just to prevent those people that may think ' hey i built a ***** last year, i suppose i can enter that into the build off'. I didnt think it would be much of a deal to include a newspaper in the first build picture since we would probably be taking so many pictures anyway.

That`s cool Wez.

I actually didn`t see that in your post `til I read this.I wasn`t bustin` on ya.It`s a good idea.

It just flashed in my head like an old movie.

Too much LSD back in the day

[WezV]

I thought i had better explain, seems like an easy step that stops a lot of uneccisary s*** - its not like i am paranoid or owt

[GuitarGuy]

I personally like the entry "donation". On the 2X4 build people were all gung ho and I ended up being the only person that built one......or the only sucker. I believe that the donation would weed out the people that are full of it. And people are more apt to continue building if their name is on the list.

[Drak]

I don't think weeding out people that are 'full of it' has to include a donation.

Not saying a donation is good or bad really, just saying if you read my earlier posts (some pics of previous high-grade work, and no total newbs for entry) will separate the wheat from the chaff pretty quickly.

And so even if some semi-newbs join, what's the big deal, the worst that could happen is they won't finish the guitar, no big loss.

Getting rid of the deadweight has more to do with keeping the whole thing running smoothly and not bogging it down with a million posts about how to cut your body out and what finish they should use kinda stuff...at least that kind of banter was one of the problems last time. They were simply inappropriate entries into a guitar building competition...but back then, we were all so soft and cuddly and nicey-nice ( ), we let anyone who wanted in, in.

As Rich said, the guys who build, will build, and the rest will talk.

Hey, that gives me an idea. If we do keep it on the sly, the less talk about it, now THAT'S what will keep the riff-raff away, you remove all the mindless chitter-chatter, you remove most of ~those~ people.

And 'those' people are not ~bad~ people, it was just simply inappropriate that they entered a competition to build a guitar when they didn't even know how to yet.

That is the single biggest point of entry, that you have already built a guitar, whether it be a partscaster from a body and neck you bought or whatever, as long as you have COMPLETED your own guitar in one way or another, you should gain entry, and if you haven't, you should not gain entry, it's really that simple, because that's the only problem those guys presented last time...that and the ones who wanted to join 1/2 way thru.

You should not have entrants asking what kind of wood they should use, where to buy it, or what Tru-Oil is, in a build competition, and that's what was happening last time.

[croaticum]

ok,

I figure, if the deadline is 6 months im in!

Hell, i think i can do it in 6 months even if i dont have my shop running as it usually is.

Ok, count me in.

My last guitar is done, played on, and now im allready starting to plan(well, planed out, ploted, ordered wood kinna planning) on next build.

This is a sugestions

1 start build off with start of new year so 1.1.07

2 make some kind of PG build off headstock logo

3 make it annual thing

4 put progress threads or sign ups in advanced chat section

5 not make it "who sucks, who rocks" competition and keep it friendly with absolutly no wotes on who's best at building.

If we make competition out of it, then thats just another GOTM thing, and we allready have that.

maybe we could even trade that guitars with each other or give it to some gifted kid in local aria or something.

Anyways im in, but only if it is friendly buikd off 'cos i dont wanna see ppšl argue about what guitar is better.

Everyone that has ever built something thinks of his work highly,learn on it, make it better next time and then makes it even better next time.

I respect every single one of you and your work even the kid that try's to refinish his guitar and scr**s it all up, but he tried.

[fryovanni]

Drak- You make good points. I would not exclude anyone per-sey. It is not appropriate for this forum. I also don't dig manditory secrecy(just does not seem worth while). Being realistic, the guys that will finish a guitar will not be looking to rob ideas(or at least exicute them well enough to make it an issue). Non disclosure is certainly a persons choice(but not mandate). The idea of hiding in the "members" section seems just wrong also(the forum is open). I believe you guys make good points though, and these will certainly take away from the process if they are problematic.

I would propose this;

Make a thread with concept, rules, and dates. This would be the place to announce you want to enter. This announcement would be to the MOD Squad and they could add your name to a simple list. No chatting in this thread.

Create a thread that can only be posted on by entrants. The only posts to the thread would include progress pictures, and a small description of the photos. Mods will remove any post that violates(no questions ask).

Create a topic to discuss the posted pictures. General BS and what have you(totally open to all). If the entrant wants to ignor it do so.

The contest starts and ends. If an entrant wants to enter late. So be it, but no extensions to the completion date.

I am not a fan of making anyone prove anything. If they think they are fooling anyone it is only going to be themself. Totally their loss. It is high time to get over this pecking order BS, and drop the posturing(especially because newbies seem to dwell on this). The idea is to feed off the energy of the contest, and generate enthusiasm/ just have fun.

Peace,Rich

[spazzyone]

we need the Mods to speak at this time on their suggested guidlines

to give this a more "realistic" push towards our goal as we are at 5 pages now and no given path

a fee is not a bad idea. while i agree with Rich and Drak. the fee could go to the BP fund

wich would help us not wast time with naysayer"s and wanabe's (nothing personal)

and benifet PG were it needs it.then if you pay in and cant produce that fee is your penalty

and the BP builds gain

there have been enough posts to give the Mod Squad some basic ideas for a start

let them post the rules in the put it to a vote area and we well vote our rules based on their sugesstions

Mods are you there? what are your thoughts?

Edited December 16, 2006 by spazzyone

[Drak]

Yeah, I agree, the mandatory secrecy thing is, for the most part, unnecessary.

I don't know if the forum software will allow only certain members to post to that designated special thread, I guess the Mods will know.

BTW, I think that's where you guys need to get started right now, is asking the Mods if they'll host it for you, how many you want, and how to pick them, I think you guys could do that right away.

Get them picked and they can start helping out, getting that committee picked and in place will remove a lot of the BS 'we should do it this way' postings, which you will be inundated with shortly.

[Maiden69]

OK, I don't know if this will really kick off! I like a lot of the ideas presented! I will pin this to wait for more feedback from the other Mods and I guess once you guys decide which ones them we can start to brainstorm in the mod section.

[spazzyone]

thanks for the quickness Maiden. and i will be happy with any mod that wants to handle this task

as of this posting there were 65 posts but 700 some odd visits

Edited December 16, 2006 by spazzyone

[Drak]

Maybe you should have them all join in if they're willing, don't want to leave any Mods out now do ya?

I think at least three tho.

[westhemann]

look..if you guys are serious...this is what you do intead of talking round and round..

go to the vote section and post a new topic "who wants to participate in the build off...serious entries only"

start another vote on "when should the start date be?"(leave enough time before the start to gather the materials...like a month?)

start another vote on "the finish date"(6 months?does that leave enough time for summer to get here so you can do your finishing in god weather,or should you make it 7 months?) get the mods to pin the threads and when the contest and rules are finalized have the threads locked and left as record of entries and rules

you get the idea...vote on every thing...and only the entrants get to vote,and every voter has to post so he can be identified as an entrant andtheefore a qwualified voter

then ask setch,guitarfrenzy, maiden,and scott via another thread if they will help keep it organized (i do not have time...i need to concentrate on my own guitar..besides right now i only like black and blood colored guitars)

if i were you...i would want setch to head it up....he is VERY capable as a builder,is completely honest and impartial,and heis not an egotistical american like the rest of us

but first you need to figure out who is entering...because nobody elses opinion matters,now does it?

[spazzyone]

By using Mods as judge's do's that barr them from competition?

and before we post what Mods are willing to invest the extra time to judge?

if you guy's could say yes or no then we could start the voting

Brian?

Setch?

Wes?

Maiden?

Kevan?

Scott?

Cereal?

a simple "Im in or Im out " next to your name will tell us if your willing to do this chore

[westhemann]

you should really read the post right above yours,man:)

[Drak]

A thousand mile journey always starts with the first step.

go to the vote section and post a new topic "who wants to participate in the build off...serious entries only"

So take a step, it's easy and it won't cost you anything.

There is another saying goes (I can't remember it exactly)

...Standing still and trying to peer ahead into the distance, the way is not lit, but as you start walking forward, the path will unfold before your eyes.

The only way to see the path is to start walking.

So again, take a step, it's easy and it won't cost you anything, and you'll get the answers to your questions by taking the action.

[westhemann]

so?none of you has the planning ability to finalize this thing?

i tell you what...let me help you out.

one of you can take charge and start the voting polls and get it going...

OR

just give me the word and i will open the polls myself...i will find the judges,i will find the guy to be the "foreman of the rules",i will start the vote between guitar styles that i think would be versatile enough to please the majority of builders involved...then i will get the hell out of the way and let you guys go with it.

i can organise it,but i don't have the time to STAY involved..

if that is what you want...justa few of you post right here and say so...just say "take us to the next step,wes" or ""get er done,dorkface"

or figure out how to get it started in your own way...either way is fine,i just would like to see this happen.

or just let the thread die in embarresment the way our carrie thread did

[Simo]

Sounds like fun, I'd be up for it

As for judging... maybe we could rope in some VIP members such as Melvyn Hiscock, Ron Thorn? I'm sure they're busy guys but it might be worth asking.

[thegarehanman]

I'd say you should ask myka...at least that'd be my first choice. However, I'm pretty sure he's quite busy at the moment and(with any bit of certainty) at all near future moments. He is already helping out in the bluepresence bass, afterall.

peace,

russ

[Simo]

+1 on Myka, good call.