Prostheta Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hey all! Well, this one has been on the boil for a long time now as making it perfect (it's for my wife) is paramount, and rushing the build is not. Nina has always wanted a Les Paul, but certain aspects of the "standard" design don't endear itself to her such as the weight, inlays etc. All easy to build out. The basic spec deviations "from Standard" we decided on over much deliberation are: - carved flame maple top/zebrano back with one large "U" hollow body cavity - nickel hardware throughout - P90 pickups combined with a 6mm post Graphtech GHOST Tonepros TOM bridge - Waverley 4067 nickel tuners with ebony keys or 4062 engraved - macassar ebony fingerboard with self-designed entwined vine - laminated neck with a zebrano central laminate and wenge outers - straight wenge headstock with zebrano headplate and macassar ebony backstrap - dual action allen truss rod We're still debating the proposed satin finish, over whether to go with wax or oil. Nina (being Finnish) would prefer the woods to be as natural as possible. No clearcoating! My hesitation is that the zebrano might become dirty, similar to how maple becomes a dirt magnet.... We are waiting on so good zebrano to come into stock, the maple is cut and good to go (might start the carve) and the neck just needs the wenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hey all! Well, this one has been on the boil for a long time now as making it perfect (it's for my wife) is paramount, and rushing the build is not. Nina has always wanted a Les Paul, but certain aspects of the "standard" design don't endear itself to her such as the weight, inlays etc. All easy to build out. The basic spec deviations "from Standard" we decided on over much deliberation are: - carved flame maple top/zebrano back with one large "U" hollow body cavity - nickel hardware throughout - P90 pickups combined with a 6mm post Graphtech GHOST Tonepros TOM bridge - Waverley 4067 nickel tuners with ebony keys or 4062 engraved - macassar ebony fingerboard with self-designed entwined vine - laminated neck with a zebrano central laminate and wenge outers - straight wenge headstock with zebrano headplate and macassar ebony backstrap - dual action allen truss rod We're still debating the proposed satin finish, over whether to go with wax or oil. Nina (being Finnish) would prefer the woods to be as natural as possible. No clearcoating! My hesitation is that the zebrano might become dirty, similar to how maple becomes a dirt magnet.... We are waiting on so good zebrano to come into stock, the maple is cut and good to go (might start the carve) and the neck just needs the wenge. this is gonna be a pretty guitar. I always wanted a P90 LP. waverly's? wow!!! awesome! expensive! not sure on the straight headstock... lets see some pictures man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Work hasn't started as I need some wenge before I can get underway on the neck, and the zebrano I have earmarked for the body. I might start the top carve however. My expected finish date is before next Autumn as my wife will be playing it at our brother, Sami's wedding in Finland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubab0y Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Wow. Sounds fantastic. And fantastically expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunkRockerLuke Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 your wife is one lucky lady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 your wife is one lucky lady Of course she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Cool. Well we received the zebrano today - two blanks in fact - one for my beloved's LP and the other for either a bass or whatever. The blank was cut from one long piece as opposed to bookmatched, so it was split and brought in side to side, so the match starts from the back rear corner and deviates naturally outwards as it will. I think bookmatching a turbulent grain like zebrano is unnatural anyway so this works out nicely and economically. I'll be going for a three-cavity semi-hollow similar to Biliousfrog's singlecut. The only issue I can perceive is that I would very much like to pull off a grain-matched backplate....might have to come up with some crazy guided router template to cut through the back or something.... BACK FRONT (this will be covered by the maple cap anyway, so is academic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Nice wood! Although after my last project, That block of zebrano looks more ominous than it would have previously It was worth it in the end, but (as you probably know) its a bitch to plane and route. If you dont pay careful attention to the grain direction you can get some crazy tearout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Definitely. New router bits, bandsawing as close as possible to the outline and Forstner bits as much as possible for sure! I'm a little concerned about planing tearout as I need to get a maple cap on there cleanly (with a black pinstripe between the back and the cap of course) and I will not accept the slightest imperfection on this one! I think i'll spend a good amount of time honing the irons and testing the plane setup on test wood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Definitely do a little test on scrap and really feel out your piece of wood and be certain of grain direction and so on. I swear with my last piece there were areas that were not the same as the rest and it was miserable. My piece was more uneven in color/grain than most I see. I haven't really had any problems with routing it and I have done quite a bit of different routing, but I will say my bits are like new and I really like the brand so far. As with Ben scraping is very helpful on zebra and can save you some smoothing time. I really like that piece you got. What type of maple(figure) are you using? I've actually been working on a similar body, zebra with maple top. Its a totally different body shape though and the maple is probably considered flamed but it really is quite unique looking. Well cool looking project and keep the pictures coming. With that piece and a maple top that will be a cool looking SC. Best of luck. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyonsdream Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Nice wood! Although after my last project, That block of zebrano looks more ominous than it would have previously It was worth it in the end, but (as you probably know) its a bitch to plane and route. If you dont pay careful attention to the grain direction you can get some crazy tearout. I've actually found that using a slighly dull carbide router bit creates less tear out when shaping the sides than a new bit. I actually keep a sacific bit in my shop just for zebrawood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I'm using this monster piece....I don't have any smaller sets so there's wastage but that will go well towards a headplate perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 (edited) This is the design I made for the inlay: Curves made in CAD, fleshed out and filled in using Paintshop Pro to show it up more. Originally, this design was laminated to have a central column of purpleheart, two strips of flame maple (from Stewmac binding) and an ebony outer. Unfortunately, I refined the idea and took it one step further....!! ORIGINAL MOCKUP I would actually like to get ahold of some sappy ziricote which I can de-bookmatch (heh!) in as a fingerboard to create a wavey "central column" around which I can design and cut in the vine. I have to discuss this with Huntindoug as it might be a pain to do, but definitely worthwhile. Edited September 11, 2007 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 (edited) Very nice top you got there! And as you said the waste will be useful for many things. I'm really bad about wasting wood, meaning I can't waste wood. For some reason I save almost every off cut from everything. Most of it just sits till one day I'll want to make some knobs or truss covers or whatever, but I must say having that scrap around has saved me a couple times, I'll reach down and grab a perfect wedge piece for a template or something useful. Anyhow, that inlay is looking wicked, hope you are able to find what you need. Zircote is probably my favorite wood, though I've seen rosewood holding similar figure that I liked. Your idea will be wicked and I can't wait to see it turn out. By debookmatching the zircote, would you be replacing the ebony with zircote? Not sure, but thats what it sounded like. Splitting in half then putting something between it. Honestly, if thats what you are talking about, you should email websters and have that term coined because I could never explain that to anyone and one word would save me trouble, lol. BTW-chambering-great idea. I did some mild to moderate chambering and was amazing at how much weight I lost. I could take more, but I'm happy with how it turned out. I was slightly surprised at the weight of the initial rough cut blank and decide then to chamber and I'm so glad I did. I'm interested in seeing your U chamber, sounds cool. Best of luck and keep the pics rollin in. J Edited September 11, 2007 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiem Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 is there some flame on that zebrano or are those some marks from a planer or sumtin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 (edited) I think there might be an illusion caused by the planing, but I don't think there's any real figure popping. I wet the wood to check it and did a flash photo and it wasn't conclusive. I doubt there's any flaming. As for the fingerboard, I thought about taking a piece of ziricote with a sappy edge and doing a bookmatch cut but flipping so it's not symmetrical. The following image is the same piece of ziricote edge matched 180°: Then just taking a full inlay cut of the vine, and working the inlay around the natural shape of the sappy wood. The black line in the centre is for the purposes of demonstrating the centreline. I think in this case, using wood instead of acrylic would work nicely although in a perfect (and adequately skilled!) world I would love to use abalone or black pearl. Lots of large pieces and not enough skill and experience to pull it off to a standard I would be happy for, for my wife :-D Edited September 11, 2007 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Then just taking a full inlay cut of the vine, and working the inlay around the natural shape of the sappy wood. The black line in the centre is for the purposes of demonstrating the centreline. Definitely!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I've emailed (or in my more blunt style, probably emauled) Larry at Gallery Hardwoods about some sappy ziricote. I'll see what comes of that one. Pretty excited about it, truth be known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Gotcha!! Thanks for the clarification! That is a really cool idea!! I'm a really big fan of that look of the middle being sapwood bookmatched. When getting some coco a while ago I specifically requested this for the headstock, but I hadn't thought to do this with the fret board, though I'm not sure I want to necessarily bookmatch a fretboard yet, mainly because of a lack of general experience with fretboards. Maybe when I know more of the ins and outs of fretboard factors I'll jump into more skilled concepts such as yours. I must say that is going to be one bad ass fretboard, really cool concepts. I think for a future project you should do a similar laminate fretboard minus the vine and for the body do the exact reverse of the fretboard laminates, I think that would look pretty interesting. Cool stuff man. I really can't wait to see this one come to life, mainly for two reasons: A-The amazing fretboard concept and B-So I can see how my body should look when done properly, lol. Right on man, keep up the killer work. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) How do bookmatched fretboards hold up? I wouldn't put having a glue line right above my truss rod on my list of top things to do... regardless of what we hear about glue lines with titebond being stronger than the surrounding wood or not. Call me traditional. Chris Not to mention SAPwood more prone to cracking above the trussrod unless you have him acrylize it. Edited September 12, 2007 by verhoevenc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 That's been a worry of mine as well but acrylising the wood is always an option as you say. For the purposes of taking the workload off the truss rod, i've been playing with the idea of carbon reinforcement. Not to counteract tension from strings - more to keep the neck straight without having to force it back into line with the rod. If push comes to shove, I can always inlay a piece of wood into a straight fingerboard instead of having a sapwood central column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 CF would probably be a good idea, especially for your idea. I was told and I read a lot about problems with sapwoods and even just flatsawn figure, which I like a lot. If I had top choices those would be my first two concepts for design, bookmatched with sapwood then flatsawn figure. That is a good point Chris about the truss rod/glue line and that would go triple or more for a truss rod under bookmatched sapwood. I know I've seen bookmatched fretboards and personally haven't heard of any problems with them, but that doesn't mean anything as I haven't seen all that many. I think if you were going that route, I would definitely use CF rods and use a nice thick fillet over the truss rod, of course your neck will need to remain a hair thicker, but it would add a lot of security I think. In fact I might even route the deep truss route, the go back over and widen the top of the route so the fillet would be 2-3 times wider than the truss rod, that way it had a much larger gluing surface and the pressure of the truss rod on the fillet, and the pressure of the fillet on the bookmatch fretboard would be more evenly dispersed. If anyone doesn't get that, tell me, maybe I could draw a crappy picture or something. I think it might be some good insurance to prevent any problems with bookmatching a fretboard, even with sapwood. And again I'd definitely use some CF. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 What you COULD also do is this. Take a piece of wood (like rosewood, ebony, etc.) and make it about 5/8" wide (hopefully your sapwood area is like 3/8" wide, and I'm assuming something AROUND a 1/4" wide trussrod channel) then route a 5/8" wide channel into the back of your fingerboard to the maximum depth that you feel confident won't "poke" through after you've radiused the board (so leave about 1/16" of actual fretboard wood on top of this channel), then glue this piece of wood into place and plane flush with everything else. What this will do is make sure that you have a SOLID piece above, and extending wider (for grip and what not) for your trussrod. ALSO, in doing this you've gotten rid of MOST of that sapwood without ruining it's appearance on the surface of the fretboard. LASTLY, you'll have to make sure that this inlaid rear support piece is also wider than your sapwood area, because if it's not you've essentially done nothing because it can still crack through the sapwood at the top. The outter-most (width wise) section of your inlaid rear support need to be glued to the neck with 1/8" on each side atleast, as well as on the top to SOLID heartwood ziricote, once again with at least 1/8" on each side (hence my suggestion of a 5/8" wide piece for a 3/8" wide sapwood area in the center). This will also make it to you don't have the bookmatch right above the rod. Hopefully that makes sense. Chris PS: Don't quote me on this I haven't tried it. However, if I were in this position this is what I'd do, and I personally would have no qualms trying it in the future. Just know that I haven't yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaam Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) Could also make the fretboard thinner and just sandwich a slice of stronger wood between the neck and fb. That way you'll also have a cool looking accent line if you decide to do binding. --edit-- Keep in mind I've never actually done it and am no expert in these matters. Edited September 13, 2007 by Jaam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I'm going to sleep on these two ideas rather than come up with an immediate solution. Larry had come up trumps with the ziricote but the execution is still a little way down the line. No need to rush anything as this project has already been a year in the making between me and Nina. Either suggestion applies to the same issue....let me sleep on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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