My New Old Guitar Build

[DrummerDude]

Remember THIS thread where I was building a Jackson Randy Rhoads copy out of spruce?

Forget about it.

I started it all over again, this time using beech.

And I have my long awaited BC Rich neck now, thanks to a very kind boy from the forum.

The glued beech blanks:

The initial cut out of the shape left some around the neck pocket - I like to have a wide base for my router guides to step on):

Then I used wooden peg fasteners to add extra strength to the construction. Just out of paranoia - these are really not necessary but if they do not help, they won't do any harm either.

I will have to glue this extra piece for the tip of the upper horn. Hope it will not screw up the sound and the sustain. :D

Then I put it all together and made a mock-up guitar just to see if things are going good.

At present I have two minor problems - the tuner keys that I already have don't fit in the BC Rich headstock holes.

The holes are 8mm in diameter while the tuners are 10mm.

I have two choices - buy new, thinner keys, or widen the holes in the headstock to make them 10mm.

Then the bridge.

I will be using a Fender-style hardtail for this guitar.

Need a black one, made of steel.

Found a couple modestly priced hardtails that were in black too, but they were all made of Zink and with a rather gay "modern" design.

Yuck!

To be continued...

[phoenix_rising]

Cool project! I have not seen too many of those attempted.

[jammy]

Good work so far!

A word of warning... If you do decide to enlarge the tuner holes, they must be reamed out, not drilled.

[Jon]

A word of warning... If you do decide to enlarge the tuner holes, they must be reamed out, not drilled.

Or filled with dowel and then re-drilled. Regardless, they cannot be drilled as is.

[Geo]

A word of warning... If you do decide to enlarge the tuner holes, they must be reamed out, not drilled.

Or filled with dowel and then re-drilled. Regardless, they cannot be drilled as is.

Is the finish an issue? I don't see why drilling would be a problem. But, I know very little.

[DrummerDude]

OK, the saga continues.

I started routing. My router bit was pretty damn dull and worn out, so it kinda "smoked" the wood a bit but it's not a big deal. I will sand the pocket clean for the cosmetic's sake.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5023/s5002563sn4.jpg

After I was done with the neck pocket, I cut off the excess wood on the front to test-fit the neck.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1755/s5002568sn6.jpg

And the neck fitted in like a charm.

As tight as a barely legal teen girl.

It turned out to be a Perfect Fit.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7959/s5002567oy8.jpg

On the photo below, I am holding the guitar by the neck to test the neck pocket tightness. The body didn't slip out, of course.

At the same time the fit is not too tight and it does not require any supernatural force to push the neck heel into the pocket.

it is just right.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6526/s5002570ls8.jpg

To be continued.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Maiden69

[Jon]

Is the finish an issue? I don't see why drilling would be a problem. But, I know very little.

To drill a hole, you need a solid piece to drill into. For instance, a forstner bit has to have wood to grab onto in the center of the bit or else it's going to kick.

[j. pierce]

FWIW, I've had fair success enlarging tuner holes with a stepped drill bit, (i.e., Unibit, Varibit) I have one that the steps are "long" enough that if I enlarge it from the front and then from the back, it meets up on most headstocks, or gets close enough that I can easily removed the last remaining bit of excess inside with a few passes of the file.

[jmrentis]

Small amounts of enlarging could also be done with a reamer, which I've seen sold at places like LMI, which are perfect for opening up holes to fit slightly larger tuning machines like sperzels. You could even practice buy drilling a hole in scrap and enlarging it with the reamer, if you are comfortable with the reamer it would be much easier and quicker than filling and redrilling holes when you just need to slightly enlarge some tuner holes.

LMI has two reamers for opening up tuner holes to fit the slightly bigger tuning machines(10mm), you'll probably want the cheaper one at $37.10 because the nice is $109.45. Just a thought. Best of luck. J

EDIT: If you do clean up with the file as J mentioned, just make sure you only push to file, its so hard to explain but if you try pulling the file up through the tuner hole you can easily catch and chip out the edge of the hole, especially with the face of the headstock with a finish, I did this once cleaning up a tuner hole with a round file, I avoided it the whole time and right at the end I made one upstroke and it chipped off a nice piece of the face of the headstock. Same thing can happen when pushing if you end up filing the bottom edge of the hole, but with a tapered type round file, it would be hard to accomplish, so the pushing stroke is safer. Best of luck. J

Edited October 17, 2007 by jmrentis

[DrummerDude]

Updates from today.

Glued the small piece for the tip of the upper horn:

Then I elongated the neck pocket towards the bridge because it turned out that I have miscalculated and misplaced it the first time and it was 1,5 cm backwards.

I also cleaned the smoked wood just for the sake of good looks.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1556/s5002577ty8.jpg

After the glue was set, I cut out the tip of the upper horn:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2663/s5002578af6.jpg

To be continued.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Maiden69
one pic per post!

[Geo]

Is the finish an issue? I don't see why drilling would be a problem. But, I know very little.

To drill a hole, you need a solid piece to drill into. For instance, a forstner bit has to have wood to grab onto in the center of the bit or else it's going to kick.

Mm, that explains some problems I've encountered.

[killemall8]

Is the finish an issue? I don't see why drilling would be a problem. But, I know very little.

To drill a hole, you need a solid piece to drill into. For instance, a forstner bit has to have wood to grab onto in the center of the bit or else it's going to kick.

Mm, that explains some problems I've encountered.

thats why you just use a regular drill bit. i dont see the point of using forstener bits, unless you need a huge hole. you can enlarge them with a regular drill bit without any trouble.

[ElysianGuitars]

the neck pocket fitting so tight will become an issue after you spray finish... and beech? that'll be a heavy guitar, though Rhoads V's do tend to neck dive, so it'll probably work out well there... how is beech on the tone side of things?

[Muzz]

That's right, it might be an idea to mask off the sides of the pocket where they are not covered by the paint stick while spraying, or prepare to do a little bit of pocket sanding, but it shouldn't be too much of a biggy. I am also interested to see how the beech affects the tone.

[DrummerDude]

Thanks for the comments.

The neck heel does not get clenched inside the pocket and does not require brute force to get in but rather fits tightly and snugly, still without any effort.

Paint in the neck pocket is not an issue - I will not spray any grain filler or paint inside the neck pocket anyway.

Hate it when people do that.

About the sound of beech - frankly, I don't know.

Some claim it sounds like maple, because it is very hard, heavy and rigid, others say it's in the "middle" of the tonal range (Alder?).

I will just build this guitar and judge the tone when it's finished.

I did some work today.

Will post photos when I'm completely done.

Do you think that a self-made putty out of PVA glue and wood chips would be a better choice for filling rather large irregularities over the store-bought putty that I have?

[killemall8]

Will post photos when I'm completely done.

Do you think that a self-made putty out of PVA glue and wood chips would be a better choice for filling rather large irregularities over the store-bought putty that I have?

do you even need to grain fill that? i looks very closed grained enough that you dont have to.

[ihocky2]

Please clarify as to what "Rather large irregularities" are. Is it gouges or gaps in the joints? Or is it the pores of the grain. If it is gouges or gaps I would go with epoxy. If it is the normal pores, you are going to want grain filler, not wood filler or wood putty, but actual grain filler. If you can't find or don't want to use grain filler you can use epoxy as the grain filler. But either way you need something that is more liquid and easier to spread and doesn't shrink back as bad as wood filler.

[DrummerDude]

Will post photos when I'm completely done.

Do you think that a self-made putty out of PVA glue and wood chips would be a better choice for filling rather large irregularities over the store-bought putty that I have?

do you even need to grain fill that? i looks very closed grained enough that you dont have to.

Nope, I don't think that the body needs grain filler.

But I do think that its sides need putty.

There are large jagged irregularities and even pits where I have cut out the shape using my jigsaw. Those need to be filled with putty.

[fookgub]

Nope, I don't think that the body needs grain filler.

But I do think that its sides need putty.

There are large jagged irregularities and even pits where I have cut out the shape using my jigsaw. Those need to be filled with putty.

You are cleaning up with edges with a router and/or sanding, right? You shouldn't just cut it out with a saw then slap on filler until you get a clean edge. I'm sure you know this already, but the wording in your post is a little ambiguous.

As far as putty goes, if the store bought stuff you have is just a general purpose wood putty for carpentry (like Elmer's or something), don't use it. It will shrink and do other nasty stuff, making it very difficult to get a good finish.

[DrummerDude]

OK, I will try the PVA+wood chips mixture on scrap wood and see if ti behaves alright.

I have seen people using it for filling parquet gaps and it worked without shrinking or cracking.

Will not use the wood putty that I got from the mall.

[Jon]

PVA will shrink, try some epoxy.

[Muzz]

OK, I will try the PVA+wood chips mixture on scrap wood and see if ti behaves alright.

I have seen people using it for filling parquet gaps and it worked without shrinking or cracking.

Will not use the wood putty that I got from the mall.

Wood slices glued in will work but be carefull with sawdust mixed with PVA, it looks fine at first but with some finishes it can go really dark brown as soon as the finish hits it, best to test on scraps first.

[DrummerDude]

Alright Jon, will use epoxy then.

By the way, would PVA shrink immediately or would it shrink in the long run?

Oh, Muzz, we were posting at the same time and I didn't see your post.

Maybe I would try your stuff too.

I have saw dust with only a few real chips and shavings in it. If color is the only issue, that's not a problem.

The guitar will be painted in a solid jet black color that will be hiding everything underneath it.

I just made a PVA+saw dust mixture in a 2:3 proportion (2 glue, 3 saw dust)

I applied the paste to a scrap wood piece. Will see how it behaves tomorrow.

Edited October 18, 2007 by DrummerDude

[ElysianGuitars]

That's right, it might be an idea to mask off the sides of the pocket where they are not covered by the paint stick while spraying, or prepare to do a little bit of pocket sanding, but it shouldn't be too much of a biggy. I am also interested to see how the beech affects the tone.

worked with beech at the furniture factory back in the day, it was really tight grained, it actually kind of reminded me of hard rock maple. the beech we had was really prone to warp, but that could just be because it was cut about 3/4"x1 3/4" or so... then again, the alder we also had wasn't really warpy...

[Jon]

Alright Jon, will use epoxy then.

By the way, would PVA shrink immediately or would it shrink in the long run?

Both, it will shrink as it dries so it wont gap fill properly, meaning you'll need to use more PVA glue. I don't think PVA glue bonds to itself well, at least the little I've messed with it, it sure hasn't. Not to mention it will creep. Epoxy wont have these issues, although it is quite messy in inexperienced hands. Wear some disposable gloves, it's a pain to clean off your hands.