rick_canton Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 It did - thanks Rick. I used pretty much the same method of rounding over on my Zeta build, but I haven't gone to the same lengths of carving as yourself. You're so right about the large roundover bits....seeing the grain appear as the bit takes a 3D contour out of the sides is almost hypnotising which is a pretty bad thing considering how a bit like that can propel a workpiece across the room if too much is being taken too quickly! A couple of mm at a time for something that size when getting near to the full depth. Hey Prostheta, Inded, the router feels like it also could easily snag on the sides and go flying...& yes, the joy of seeing the router bit forming the shape the sides is hypnotizing...it seems that at that point we go to the "zone".... Thanks for the welcome & I`m looking forward to reading more post & sharing. Regards, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 As the Ouro sinks further and further behind in the guitar of the month voting, I have a question. What would you change about this guitar? This is a serious question and I would like honest opinion. I'll start it off, I have plans for some very subtle inlays on the neck. I don't want to overpower the guitar, but I would like the neck to be more cohesive to the graphic. I'm working on some designs right now to do this. So, what would you change and why? I hope its a little more than 'I don't like headless guitars' because that's more of a prejudice on your part than constructive advice. I'm asking this because I'm in the very early planning stages of a double neck sister to the Ouro. I'm still up in the air on body, features, and finish, but I'm very set on it being headless and painted with a graphic. So, any constructive criticism here might help me move in a direction I might not have before. To me, this is the guitar of the millenium. Go figure. It was 2 years from early conception to completion and it's been a bit of a letdown to see it meet such a lukewarm response. It's funny, I (like all of the other entrants I'm sure) have really invested myself into this project so much so that my self-esteem seems to be tied quite a bit to it. So, don't view this as anger, there were some amazing contributions this past month I know (I really dig Barney), but view it more as sadness and hope that my next project will be that much better for it. I've been a longtime lurker and it is partly due to this forum (and Brian C. in particular) to have a custom built instead of always buying a factory produced guitar. So, c'mon my peeps, let the advice roll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidlook Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) Lukewarm response? Can't really agree with you there, I think you've gotten a great response for such an 'out-there' build. Different people have different tastes, no guitar will ever be liked by everyone, what's the most beatiful guitar in the world to you may look like rubbish to someone else. If you ask me what I would change on your guitar I would say nothing, because it seemed like you where happy with it as it was, and asking other people what to change just seems like an attempt to make the design appeal to a larger audience. The point of a custom is to get something that is exactly what you want, If you want your guitar to be liked by a lot of people, build something more mainstream with fancy woods. I love the uniqueness of this build a lot more than the design itself, and I'd love to see a double neck version. Where does this sadness come from btw? you seemed to love the instrument? does not winning the GOTM take anything away from the instrument? On a side-note I don't think that not liking headless guitars is about prejudice. Some people just don't like the look of a guitar with no head, taste is subjective. Edited January 27, 2008 by aidlook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Your taking GOTM a wee bit too seriously. We have had numerous discussions on this in the past and the concessions is that 90% of the members vote on impulse for the guitar that has the most wow factor/shininess/whatever you want to call it (thats why you see a lot of colored quit and flame top guitars win). It is *not* a test to see which guitar is better, or would do better in the marketplace. Don't feel bad if your guitar doesn't win, it really means nothing. FWIW your guitar is really unique and cool. But tons of people hate unique guitars, just look at how many gibsons and fenders sell to prove my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I think I'm being misunderstood a little. We can all say that we are total mavericks and that we don't care what anyone else thinks about anything, but that is a falsehood. We are social by nature. It is hardwired into us genetically. Not accepting that part of yourself is not accepting the 'humanity' inside you. Now, that aside, I will not do anything that I don't like just to please others -- but I can be disappointed when others don't seem to see the same thing I do. So, then I think, am I blinded by the moment? Is there something tangible that could be done that would improve/enhance these creations that I dream up? That is what I am after. Is it purely an 'exotic wood' thing? If so, then I concede. I had an artist spend many, many, many hours doing a very intricate design. I love exotic woods, but I would take that over a flamed this, or a quilted that any day. That's my preference when I can afford it. Is it a body shape thing? Is the neck too bland? I'm certainly not an expert at this and I'm kinda feelin' my way through as I go. I'm trying to think up new ways to go with this and I want to make sure that I have as much expert advice as possible. I'm not asking to be told what to change, I'm just asking for a fresh perspective. That's all. Sadness is probably not the right word. Disappointed is probably more apropos. And when I say that, I don't mean in the guitar, nothing will take away the pride I feel for this thing. More along the lines of -- imagine you love this restaurant and you can't wait to take your girlfriend there, but when you do she doesn't dig it. That's the kind of disappointment I mean. Not life-shattering, but there none-the-less. And trust me, if you played headless guitars you would know. 'Prejudice' is exactly the right word. I just didn't want to get those kind of comments here. They aren't constructive. Now, here is my plan for the neck inlays. I need to come up with a 3 fret long figure 8 mini-ouroboros. It will run from the 11th to the 13th fret. I have two ways to go with this. One, make it a small snake eating it's tail. Two, just make it an infinity sign that is fatter at some parts and thinner at others to add interest. I'm not sure which I want to do. Once caveat is that I will probably add this inlay to other guitars and kind of make it my 'thing' if that makes sense. So, it may be on guitars that don't have snake designs. This inlay will become my 'logo'. The other thing I was contemplating is changing the dots at all of the other frets to small diamonds. This would bring out the patterns on some of the snakes and move it up the neck. Again, I'm not sure about that either. I do think that adding some interest to the neck would be a postive move -- I just want to be careful to do it in a small dose. A little inlay goes a long way. Any advice on getting a graphic done for inlays? Should I find a graphic designer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 We can all say that we are total mavericks and that we don't care what anyone else thinks about anything, but that is a falsehood. We are social by nature. Are you a maverick? Those personality tests are so fun. IMO your a communicator (just from reading your stuff) but I am a maverick so forgive me if I sound harsh. My dads a communicator and some times we don't get along because of my shortness and his longwindedness. All I'm saying is there are a crap load of people on this planet, and all have different tastes. Your guitar is unique, it stands out from the crowd, and a lot of people don't like things that stand out. Back to the personally tests, the majority of the population (like 85%) are preservers that hate change and anything new. If *you* are happy with your guitar design (and you should be proud of it, very well done and it looks cool) than thats all that matters. Personally I hate headless guitars, I like the look of a nice headstock. Does that comment make me have "prejudice" towards headless designs? No, thats just my personal opinion. Just remember, opinions are like butts, everyones got one, and they all stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Personally I hate headless guitars, I like the look of a nice headstock. Does that comment make me have "prejudice" towards headless designs? No, thats just my personal opinion. I don't know about you personally, but if you played headless, you'd know how many people write you off when seeing it. Prejudice is defined as 'Bias for or against someone or something that fails to take true account of their characteristics'. I usually apply it only when the scope gets too large. For example, I'm not a big fan of SGs -- I just don't like the way the double cutaway is done. I don't see that as prejudice, I didn't pre-judge anything. If I instead said 'I hate all double-cutaways', now I've pre-judged double cutaways I haven't even seen yet. I've lumped them all into a large category and pronounced my judgement. Above, you stated 'I hate headless guitars'. That is an act of pre-judging all headless guitars -- even those you haven't seen yet. If you said 'I prefer a headstock', that would be different. I am assuming that is what you really meant. Personally, as a guitarist, I have a deep love for the instrument. I have Fenders, Gibsons, Steinbergers, Ibanez, Gretsch's, several basses, Schectors, acoustics, nylon acoustics, banjos, mandolins,... I love the diversity that fretted instruments provide. You don't see that with any other instrument. But hey, some people like to have a row of similar instrument. This ones red and that ones blue. I can dig it. Finally, being a maverick or being a conformer has nothing to do with the brevity of your posts or speeches. That would be more of a slacker versus diligent argument. The only reason I type long posts is when I'm afraid of not being properly understood. Apparantly I could use some work in that department. An argument is not what I'm looking for in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAK Guitars Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I really like this guitar and in any other month I would have voted for it. You've got to understand that this months GOTM race is unusually stacked and it is one of the best months I've ever seen. So don't be disappointed, I think a lot of people love this guitar, including me, so if anything take this guitar as a winner regardless on how it stands in the voting. And if you still feel disapointed, use that to fuel your next build. About the inlays, I think that'd be really cool to kind of complete the theme with the snakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 If you said 'I prefer a headstock', that would be different. That is what I said.... Personally I hate headless guitars, I like the look of a nice headstock. Cause and effect. The cause is I like the look of headstock's on guitars, the effect is that I then hate the look of headless guitars. So is it then inaccurate for me to say that I hate headless guitars? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 As the Ouro sinks further and further behind in the guitar of the month voting, I have a question. What would you change about this guitar? This is a serious question and I would like honest opinion. I'll start it off, I have plans for some very subtle inlays on the neck. I don't want to overpower the guitar, but I would like the neck to be more cohesive to the graphic. I'm working on some designs right now to do this. So, what would you change and why? I hope its a little more than 'I don't like headless guitars' because that's more of a prejudice on your part than constructive advice. I'm asking this because I'm in the very early planning stages of a double neck sister to the Ouro. I'm still up in the air on body, features, and finish, but I'm very set on it being headless and painted with a graphic. So, any constructive criticism here might help me move in a direction I might not have before. To me, this is the guitar of the millenium. Go figure. It was 2 years from early conception to completion and it's been a bit of a letdown to see it meet such a lukewarm response. It's funny, I (like all of the other entrants I'm sure) have really invested myself into this project so much so that my self-esteem seems to be tied quite a bit to it. So, don't view this as anger, there were some amazing contributions this past month I know (I really dig Barney), but view it more as sadness and hope that my next project will be that much better for it. I've been a longtime lurker and it is partly due to this forum (and Brian C. in particular) to have a custom built instead of always buying a factory produced guitar. So, c'mon my peeps, let the advice roll! My two cents: The GOTM happens this time every month. Some months every single entry is worthy of winning, some months not so much. Regardless, there is always a winner. Just one. Most of the time the guitars I vote for don't win, and that's ok. I like what I like. I'm not going to tell you what to change on your guitar so I'll like it better. because I'm not going to play it and I'm not going to buy it. If I were, it would be different. That's all I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 If you said 'I prefer a headstock', that would be different. That is what I said.... Personally I hate headless guitars, I like the look of a nice headstock. Cause and effect. The cause is I like the look of headstock's on guitars, the effect is that I then hate the look of headless guitars. So is it then inaccurate for me to say that I hate headless guitars? No. So, I like beer, ergo I hate soda?? Your logic is impeccable my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidlook Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Actually the logic is quite clear and that analogy is flawed, it's more like I like beer, so I hate it when I'm out of beer. Not liking headless guitars is not as wide a scope as not liking double cutaways. A neck ending without a headstock is always going to look the same, you can't change what is not there. I definitely don't think it's got anything to do with pre-judging anything, people have come to the conclusion that they don't like necks ending without a head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 My two cents: The GOTM happens this time every month. Some months every single entry is worthy of winning, some months not so much. Regardless, there is always a winner. Just one. Most of the time the guitars I vote for don't win, and that's ok. I like what I like. I'm not going to tell you what to change on your guitar so I'll like it better. because I'm not going to play it and I'm not going to buy it. If I were, it would be different. That's all I got. I do appreciate the reply, but let me stop this before I am misconstrued yet again. I'm just asking for advice, I'm not asking people to tell me what to build. If I don't like your advice, I won't take it. If I do I might, or modify it to some degree. That's all. Don't read too much into this. I don't pretend to know everything about everything. There is MUCH for me to learn. When I was planning this guitar, I incorporated advice and suggestions from others. Isn't the point of boards like this to share ideas and help each other learn and grow? Or is it to build whatever you want devoid of input, post it and then not care what anyone says about it? That latter sounds a little pointless. So, I guess, nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Actually the logic is quite clear and that analogy is flawed, it's more like I like beer, so I hate it when I'm out of beer. Not liking headless guitars is not as wide a scope as not liking double cutaways. A neck ending without a headstock is always going to look the same, you can't change what is not there. I definitely don't think it's got anything to do with pre-judging anything, people have come to the conclusion that they don't like necks ending without a head. Comparing the presence and absence of an item is different than comparing two differing types of items. The exact quote was: Personally I hate headless guitars, I like the look of a nice headstock. I don't know how anyone can defend that statement. The word 'hate' is a pretty strong word and to imply that anything that goes against your preference is therefore 'hated' is ugly. To call that 'cause and effect' is ridiculous. But hey, if you want to defend it, be my guest. I'm sure this'll boil down to a semantic debate where everyone claims their words were twisted or pedantically interpreted. Whatever. I'm not replying anymore to those posts. It's innapropriate in this forum and is not the constructive criticism/advice I was asking for. I have no power to do so, but I would ask anyone looking to post in this thread to please limit it to ideas and advice on different ways I can take this concept further or maybe in a direction I hadn't anticipated. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 So yeah okay, whatever all those posts were about anyway.... *~%'\... Okay, the only thing I would change about this guitar is to have had it sealed/primed/levelled before the hand painting. Not really a change in mood or theme for the instrument, just a little kicker about what I would do on my next one for progression and makes-for-better-perfectionses. Step away from the guitar man - it's a beauty and nothing said here will change the fact it's yours, and yours only made to how you wanted it. Sod how everyone else wants it to look. They can go build their own. Your job is now to make another and another and another. All to your individual and personal specifications, perhaps with more pointers and new experience in mind. Asking too much of other people's contributions to your personal instrument is like sleeping with their wives instead of your own. Perhaps, anyway. Nobodies offered their wife up for me yet after asking them opinion on my geetars. That and my wife isn't and will never be in need of re-spec'ing. Maybe this is where the discussion went wrong and we're all going about our builds the wrong way. What do I know? :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 An argument is not what I'm looking for in this thread. Then only respond to posts about your guitar, and keep your answers specifically about the guitar. Keep it specific, keep it technical, keep it centered on the guitar only. And don't be so preoccupied with how your guitar is doing in the GOTM. GOTM is a friendly monthly contest that is primarily just for a little competitive fun. If you can't deal with the outcome, then maybe you shouldn't have entered it. Beautiful guitar, I absolutely love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanKirk Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 GOTM is all in fun. I just wished I could play them as well as look at them since I generally am not admiring how a guitar looks as I play it but how it feels and sounds in my hands. Of course looks and playability are the goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) I don`t like headless guitars also. I don`t like the look of it. I used to hate the telecaster headstock and body shape, a few years have passed and now I like it a lot, and think it looks good. about the comparison you made of the look of bare wood to your graphics and how long it took for the artist to paint the guitar... understand one thing: we love wood. we are crazy about it. we spend way too much money buying wood that we don`t even need, just because we love it. and with the excuse that one day, that amazing piece of bare wood, will turn into an amazing guitar. and trust me, it will. I have built 3 acoustics and 4 electric guitars, but over the past 2 years I bought enough wood to build more than 30 instruments. we just can`t resist seeing one nice piece and just let that go. we love working with wood. maybe your builder feels the same way, maybe not. but once you start building your instruments it becomes an adiction, like a tattoo. give it a try, you may feel in love with it too. and don`t worry about not winning GOTM, that doesn`t mean that you have to change something to win. since we can`t play the guitar we choose our favorite by other factors. way to many to list here, but each person has its own preferences. don`t try to please the others, do what you like, and be happy with it. some will agree with you, some won`t. we can`t please them all. my vote could not be to your instrument, but at the same time you may not vote for mine. there`s nothing wrong with it. sorry about my poor english. and don`t be so harsh with yourself and other forum members. Edited January 28, 2008 by Hector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 So yeah okay, whatever all those posts were about anyway.... *~%'\... Okay, the only thing I would change about this guitar is to have had it sealed/primed/levelled before the hand painting. Not really a change in mood or theme for the instrument, just a little kicker about what I would do on my next one for progression and makes-for-better-perfectionses. Step away from the guitar man - it's a beauty and nothing said here will change the fact it's yours, and yours only made to how you wanted it. Sod how everyone else wants it to look. They can go build their own. Your job is now to make another and another and another. All to your individual and personal specifications, perhaps with more pointers and new experience in mind. Asking too much of other people's contributions to your personal instrument is like sleeping with their wives instead of your own. Perhaps, anyway. Nobodies offered their wife up for me yet after asking them opinion on my geetars. That and my wife isn't and will never be in need of re-spec'ing. Maybe this is where the discussion went wrong and we're all going about our builds the wrong way. What do I know? :-D Excellent catch on the sealing/priming. I had intended on doing this originally, but the painter insisted on not doing it. It was her first guitar (and probably first painting on wood, period). It was an error on both our parts. She made a mistake and I was too green to push it. Any advice on what to seal the body with before using acryllic paints (or point me to a post/doc)? I definitely want to get this right on the next build. And, as far as I'm concerned, you cannot have enough information before a project. What you end up doing with that info is up to you. Every project is based on your sum experiences up to that point. Guitars, discussions, nature, etc. I guarantee not a single instrument was made in a vacuum with no external input. It's all a growing experience. If people aren't happy with it, I'd like to know. If it's just because it's headless, then they can sod off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trynyty Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 and don`t worry about not winning GOTM, that doesn`t mean that you have to change something to win. Please, please, please drop this. I don't mind not winning. Who freakin' cares! I was disappointed to be running 5th at the time. Sorry I'm human, I'll try to not to have any emotion in the future. My query was, why is it 5th? Is it purely an exotic wood issue? Is it a headless issue? If so, who cares. Or is it something that maybe would help me down the road. Not to win anther freakin' contest, but to build a better, and better guitar. What is this site all about?? Building better and better guitars through positive and constructive criticism or just patting each other on the back? That is all I wanted and I thank those that actually helped with some advice. For all the others, I appreciate that your heart is in the right place, but you are reading the situation incorrectly. So far, I have: Subtle neck inlays to enhance the overall visual Sealing & priming before painting The first will happen to this guitar, both will happen to future builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Buy more wood. Lots of it. Let it sit and projects will come to you :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidlook Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I actually like the dots. Since there's 'so much to look at' on the body, I like the simplicity of plain dots. But a very subtle inlay isn't gonna get over the top I guess. For future builds of this type I'd say go with just the inlay around the 12:th and skip the dots to give the neck a cleaner look. An idea perhaps would be to place your logo on the 12:th since the 'usual' place has gone missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 All I can say: I like it....... and I wouldn't be very surprised if I suddenly see myself doing something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 My query was, why is it 5th? Is it purely an exotic wood issue? Is it a headless issue? If so, who cares. Or is it something that maybe would help me down the road. Not to win anther freakin' contest, but to build a better, and better guitar. (Don`t know why is it the 5th, could be 4th or 6th. I`ve seen some amazing guitars with no votes at all! and some pretty fugly ones win. some simple, some complex. GOTM follows no pattern. and each vote has it`s own likes and dislikes. again, hard to please everybody.) Sealing & priming before painting (YES, That will make your guitar look even nicer. and that`s the only advice I could give you.) on your next builds are you going to build it yourself? you should try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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