Upgrading To Tubes

[Xanthus]

Thanks for the mic suggestions, guys! I'm making mental notes as I go along. My buddy said he'd throw in $150 or so towards a mic, in payment for recording a song with his sister. He dabbles in live audio, so I'm sure he has some ideas too, but I haven't got around to talking to him much. He's working on a semester abroad at Roehampton, the lucky bastard.

Josh, the 4033 sits at a comfortable $250 new. I don't have any of my own money to throw into it, seeing as I'm sitting here staring at my new amp. I don't know what the difference is in performance between condenser/dynamic (always had the "right" mic provided for me), so I'm doing some research.

Thanks for the rec, Mikhail, a mic that has less of a presence peak is good, because of there's one thing that I'm not so satisfied with on the V3, it's the touchy presence controls.

Also, I haven't tried out the direct recording feature either. I'd ideally like to have a mic and a closet to record with, but until then I might be able to get away with the direct recording.

- - - - - - -

Initial impressions of the V3: Amazing. In most senses of the word. Gain is great, dialing in is fun, and I've aaaaaaaalmost got a passable facsimile of a jazz amp on the clean channel, when rolling all the tone off my guitar.

It's easier to list gripes than shower praises for me, so here goes:

-Having to deal with an extra "master" section of controls. To not only worry about presence but also BRIGHT, not only mids but MID CUT. Stuff like that that I thought would be great options to have are a bit of a hinderance. It basically means twice the knobs to turn when adjusting a sound, and finding a combination of settings on the master section that works for all 3 channels is a bit of a challenge.

-Volume drop. The volume/gain of the overdrive channels KILLS the clean. I have my clean cranked to 10, the drive at 4, and the SOAK switch on, and that gets the volume to match the overdrive with the volume on 6. When I first played through it flat (everything at 5) I honestly thought something was broken with the clean channel. I've heard of some people jumping the effects loop and turning up the return to get an equal level. I'll have to try that.

-This might be just because the amp is brand new (to me) but the CENTER and THICK switch settings on the OD channels are too wooly. Center is manageable, but THICK just doesn't do it to me. I feel bad always playing on the INTENSE setting. If you've got the options, I want to use 'em, you know?

-Presence/drive are a bit grainy. This is fine for rhythm, I like that for a crunch sound, but I'm trying to set channel 2 to a smooth Satch/Vai/Petrucci lead and am having loads of trouble dialing in. Again, this might be the fact that it's the first week I've had it. I'm hoping. I don't feel like switching speakers/tubes.

-A bit noisy. My EMGs are loads quieter than whatever passives are in my Carvin (I'm thinking I have a ground/shielding problem. That guitar is loads louder than it should be), but I still might need to buy a noise suppressor. Just sold mine last year, too. Sigh. I've been looking at this. My friend has the rack version and swears by it, and it's a reasonable price for a pedal. The noise suppressor in the POD (running through effects loop) is just terrible. Eats all the life out of the sound.

-EQX. Can't tell which is on and which is off. To me, toggle up is on, off is down. But the label has the EQX sign on the bottom. Is "on" towards the logo? Very confusing. All I know is that one way makes it sound very full and the other very tinny. Again, why give the options if I'm only going to be using one setting anyways?

So I've been trying to assemble my bank of tones to look something like this:

-1. Chunky metal rhythm distortion and really screaming lead

-2. Smooth, round 80's/Halen rhythm and smooth lead

-3. Jazzbox neck pickup/strat chime bridge pickup. This will be easier with my P megaswitch on the new guitar.

Although the EMGs really like this amp. I might replace the PAF Pro set I bought with EMG or Guitarheads when all is said and done, who knows?

I should really list some good things, I don't feel I've given this amp the credit it deserves.

-DISTORTION. This amp CRUNCHES with the right pickups and settings. No wonder they pit it against Diezel and Bogner. I can totally see why. And thank god it has a ton of gain and doesn't sound like a Mesa.

-Clean channel is great. It's really responsive (a bit bright, but then again, EMGs) and with some 'verb and delay you're set.

-Boost switch is convenient. Nay, a necessity, seeing as you have two identical OD channels. Now you can have 2 distortion channels and a solo boost, instead of dedicating one to have solo settings. Well, I guess you could use that too.

-Smart loops are god. Programmable, savable, instant bypass and routing switching. You could use 2 loops per channel if you wanted.

-There would be a ton of others, but I've decided to roll them all into the category of "sounds damn fine!"

I need to digress for a bit here. I threw in the POD to the serial loop, and the smart loops let me bypass without shutting the POD down. I don't know what you people are talking about when you're crying that having the POD saps your tone because of the amp settings. I turned off the amp section of the POD to use it only as an effects unit, and you seriously cannot tell the difference between having the POD in and not. I need to get Eric Johnson over here or something. Granted, I know that a dedicated, non-modeling effects unit would sound loads better (still working on that, G-Major sometime soon), I'm using the equipment I've got for what I can. Only thing with the POD in the loop is it renders the

I need to work out the midi so that I can switch channels on the amp and effects with the POD using only the POD footswitch. I've read it can be done, it'll just take a lot of time. Never done MIDI before.

I also want to try and switch from 100 to 50 watts. If I'm reading my literature correctly, that will mean the amp starts to distort at lower levels? I'm wondering what effect, pos or neg, it will have on the sound of the amp.

Yep, I'm rambling and it's 4am. A long day of jammin' awaits tomorrow.

[joshvegas]

The amp sounds fun though I am more of a just a volume control on my amp kid of a guy. It won't have a positive or negative effect on the sound one will sound like a 100 watt amp and one will sound like a 50 watt amp play with it and find out for yourself.

There isn't a right mic really if it sounds good it is good. Condensers generally have a much flatter frequency responce so you get a more accurate sound. Dynamics normally are less flat but way less likely to be damaged by huge loud noises and mechanical interference (singer banging it off the ground) One is not the lesser of the other they just have different uses although the line is so blurred it's almost non existent.

There are exceptions to the rules Ribbon mic's are dynamic mic's but I'd s**t a brick if I even slightly knocked it where as I have seen a neuman stuck infront of a really loud amp it's just so well made that it can cope with massive noise levels. For an absolutely massive sound rip out a speaker from an amp and stick an xlr on the end

Edited April 20, 2008 by joshvegas

[borge]

I also want to try and switch from 100 to 50 watts. If I'm reading my literature correctly, that will mean the amp starts to distort at lower levels? I'm wondering what effect, pos or neg, it will have on the sound of the amp.

chances are you wont notice it much,(especially as you don't hear a pod in your chain ) the volume difference between 50-100watts is negligible. i dare say you wont be using your amp anywhere near power tube breakup levels (unless you play stadiums unmiked?) so power amp sat. isn't really a part of your sound anyways.

[Xanthus]

Hey now, don't make me record a sound clip or something The POD with all its settings turned off has a negligible effect on the sound, and it definitely isn't "killing all that glorious tube sound" like a few guys said it would.

But thanks for the advice, all. I'm really liking how its set now, so I guess there's little reason to screw around with the innards anyways.

[Mattia]

The 'Tone Sucking' sort of depends on what tone you're looking for, I find; digital effects tend to screw around with tube sound a little, particularly if you layer them on, and it's more noticeable when you're using single coil, vintage output guitars through an amp set to slight overdrive/just breaking up. That's been my experience with my Rivera and the Lexicon MPX100 (reverbs, delays, echos, chorus) in the series effects loop.

I mean, pile on effects, and you end up mostly hearing effects anyway, IMO. I tend to like straight-up amp sounds with a little judicious use of reverb/echo/delay here and there, and the occasional foray into full-on crazy effects mixing. But not often, and I do feel the amp sound gets washed away at that point. ie, the difference between the solid state Fender and the Tube Rivera becomes quite a bit smaller.

[westhemann]

I tend to like straight-up amp sounds with a little judicious use of reverb/

I am the same way..It seems like the older I get,the more I want an uncompromised sound...

As far as "killing the tone",I never said that,I said it would alter,and take away some from the amp iitself....why buy a good tube amp and then throw a pod on it When you could have nought a spider valve or an HD?

It just seems like a long way to go to get a less natural sound.

But all that matters is that you like it.If you can 't discern the pod degredation,then Why does it matter?

[Xanthus]

I can relate a bit to the uncomplicated-ness. I spent about an hour at Guitar Center today just wandering around playing whatever. I sat down with the JSX again, and I really appreciate how easy it is to dial in a good tone. I went back to my new V3 and the V3 was a lot harder to work with by comparison. I thought I was the guy who loved knobs and tweaking, hahaha. 9 mode combinations, separate master section.... I'd send it back if it didn't sound so damn good.

In either case, regarding the POD, I'm still looking to trade up to a G-Major. TC is just a better quality company, I feel. Digital, but high quality.

What do people recommend for noise suppressors? Has anyone used ISP products? Or any other suggestions? I had the NS-2 a while ago. It was..... decent, nothing spectacular.

In other news, I found this when I was browsing. Any thoughts?

[anderekel]

I haven't used the ISP decimator myself, but I have a friend who has one and says it's the best he's ever used, he used to be a guitar junkie so he's owned a bunch of stuff. Like I said, I don't know myself though, I have an NS-2 and it works well enough for my needs, not great, but yeah, it works.

[mikhailgtrski]

The 'Tone Sucking' sort of depends on what tone you're looking for, I find; digital effects tend to screw around with tube sound a little

Even the really good digital stuff will muck it up to a degree...

I went to a wet/dry stereo rig in order to have my cake and eat it too.

Roadie not included.

[Xanthus]

Is that a G-System on the floor there? That's totally a G-system.

I'm dying for the Nova System, but I can't justify the price, especially if I want to build some more guitars in the future hahaha.

Would the wet/dry setup be anything like using a Parallel loop system? Because the V3 can do parallel and serial (I'm using serial right now).

[mikhailgtrski]

For the wet/dry rig I'm using the HIWATT halfstack for the dry tone, and a line out from the speaker attenuator into the insert return on the G-System, which feeds a solid-state power amp powering the "wet" stereo 2x12 cab.

It's different than a parallel f/x loop because it's completely post-amp. My experience tells me that digital time-based f/x usually don't do so well ahead of the power section of a tube amp (as in an f/x loop), especially if you crank it up to get the output tubes really warm and happy.

Depending on how hard you run the V3 you might get decent results running your f/x (set to 100% wet) in the parallel loop. At least that way you're not running your entire signal through digital processors. But if the output tubes are pushed into distortion you'll probably get distorted/compressed delays and reverbs.

[westhemann]

I tried the isp decimator,it works great...but it works best for feedback,rather than background noise.

[Xanthus]

I tried the isp decimator,it works great...but it works best for feedback,rather than background noise.

Cool, thanks for clearing that up for me, Wes. I'm looking into the EH Hum Debugger and the HUSH pedal. Need to see if GC carries either and demo it with my amp.

[Saber]

I tried the isp decimator,it works great...but it works best for feedback,rather than background noise.

Which Decimator version are you referring to? The original Decimator pedal, the ProRackG, or the new G String pedal?

[killemall8]

i wish i could afford a tube amp. someday. ive never even heard of all of these brands you guys are talking about. i only know the basic obvious brands.

[westhemann]

Which Decimator version are you referring to? The original Decimator pedal, the ProRackG, or the new G String pedal?

Pro rack g

[Mattia]

i wish i could afford a tube amp. someday. ive never even heard of all of these brands you guys are talking about. i only know the basic obvious brands.

Get a kit :-)

[killemall8]

i wish i could afford a tube amp. someday. ive never even heard of all of these brands you guys are talking about. i only know the basic obvious brands.

Get a kit :-)

they have kits? what kind of kits? to google im off to!

[mikhailgtrski]

they have kits? what kind of kits? to google im off to!

Metroamp

Vintage Hiwatt Restorations

WeberVST

Torres Engineering

Ceriatone

Mojo Musical Supply

[Thoughtless 7]

I just built myself a Gilmour 1/2watt kit. I'm on getting parts together for a 5e3 for my next project.

[Mattia]

..and Trinity Amplifiers. Forum's gone a bit quiet, but they're very helpful. Ordered a TC-15 (think vox-y AC15-ish tone) from him a while back, it's in the mail...

http://www.trinityamplifiers.com/

Edited May 6, 2008 by Mattia

[Xanthus]

Building an amp still scares me a bit... all that voltage... I don't know if it's something I'd want to get into at this stage in the game.

I've got two non-guitar-related projects on my hands now, since I moved back into the house.

1- Converting my closet into an isolation/recording booth. I'm thinking it'll involve plywood and a lot of egg foam.

2-Finding a mic that will do both vox and my guitar, for under $200. The GC guy today recommended the E-V ND967. It's a cool looking "flat-top" dynamic mic.

In other news, I brought my guitar into GC and did an a/b test with a Gibson Explorer, and I realized that I'm sick and done with the EMGs. I'd pick up (pun intended?) a set of whatever's in the Gibson (496/500?), but I'll probably get something similar by another company.

Though Mattia, you've piqued my interest with the TC-15 kit....

[Mattia]

Building an amp still scares me a bit... all that voltage... I don't know if it's something I'd want to get into at this stage in the game.

I've got two non-guitar-related projects on my hands now, since I moved back into the house.

1- Converting my closet into an isolation/recording booth. I'm thinking it'll involve plywood and a lot of egg foam.

2-Finding a mic that will do both vox and my guitar, for under $200. The GC guy today recommended the E-V ND967. It's a cool looking "flat-top" dynamic mic.

In other news, I brought my guitar into GC and did an a/b test with a Gibson Explorer, and I realized that I'm sick and done with the EMGs. I'd pick up (pun intended?) a set of whatever's in the Gibson (496/500?), but I'll probably get something similar by another company.

Though Mattia, you've piqued my interest with the TC-15 kit....

Mic: second-hand Rode, maybe?

As for the TC-15, I'll be sure to post a review and some pics of the completed instrument (yes, amps are instruments too) when it's done. Expect that to be somewhere in September or later, though, as I've got a bunch of guitars to finish first!

Mattia

[killemall8]

In other news, I brought my guitar into GC and did an a/b test with a Gibson Explorer, and I realized that I'm sick and done with the EMGs. I'd pick up (pun intended?) a set of whatever's in the Gibson (496/500?), but I'll probably get something similar by another company.

OMG! why? i hate anything gibson related. to me they sound like any other stock regular guitar. i wouldnt ever replace emgs for gibson pickups. what made them so better iyop?

[Xanthus]

Why am I not too surprised at your opinion...

Mainly, because A/Bing the pickups, the Gibsons aren't nearly as harsh as the EMGs. It's strange, playing the EMGs alone, without anything to compare it to, I like 'em. But when I brought the Explorer into the mix, it changed everything. As far as the harshness goes, I'm not sure how much the maple neck has to do with it, seeing as I was playing it through the new EVH head on high gain for the most part. I'm of the belief that the more gain you pile on, the less wood has to do with the sound. Not always, but most of the time.

But the Gibsons responded much better to my playing technique, and cleaned up nicer than the EMGs. On the whole, the Gibsons just sounded.... better. More wholesome, more like the pickups were part of the guitar, like they were letting more of the sound come through. And they sounded tons better on the clean channel, playing some jazz, my other genre of choice.

Just better, more well-rounded pickups, in my opinion. I can't find any technical details on the Gibsons, though, so I'm at a loss at where to start for finding a similar pickup by Seymour or Dimarzio or the like.