wood is good Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I have just finished my third guitar, well, a few weeks ago that is. Only 1 thing wrong. It has horrible intonation issues!!!! When tuned to pitch, its right on at the 12th fret. But on the 5-9 frets on the A D and G strings, it sounds horrbily off. It is only off a few tics on those notes though. I dont know why its sounding so out of tune. And i cant check at the first fret, because my tuner doesnt pick up those notes. Any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 a bad crowning job on those frets could have a minor effect. but I mean it would have to be REALLY bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood is good Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 It couldnt be that, i diddnt level the frets at all, they were already level. So there was no crowning done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pariah223 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 if just a few frets are off its quite possible you had an error in your fret slot cutting. Also, how does your action look? if your action is real high you could have intonation problems as well.. and to be able to play the instrument without fret leveling.. i am assuming your action must be kinda high unless you are just really that good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood is good Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 It was a pre slotted board from LMI, so i know thats not it. The actions is really low on the high strings, but due to an inadequate neck angle, it is a little high on the bass side. Well, just the E and A strings are a bit high. I use an assemetrical neck angle, so that the high strings have a lower action. But, this has never happened before. What gets me is that the tuner says that its not that far off when i fret those notes. but it sounds like its horribly out of tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Make sure your tuner is set to A440 (or whatever you use but 440 is pretty standard). If that is set to say 435 (flat) and your tuner says you're 5 cents flat, you're really 10 cents flat of 440. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 You should intonate it harmonically at the 12th...I intonate by ear hitting the harmonic at the 12th,then fretting the note...they should be the same pitch.I never have that problem...I think your tuner most likely sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Abbett Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 This may be too obvious, but is it possible you have a high fret, and when you fret at 5-9 you are hitting a fret and throwing it "Way" off? -J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 For true intonation setup you want a strobe tuner that is accurate to 1 cent. Above that is fine for stage tuning, but for setups, you need it as accurate as possible. Your action can throw the notes out of tune. Even how hard you play versus how hard you fret the notes when tuning. When I started playing I was very haeavy with my fretting hand, but fairly light when tuning. It took a little while to figure out that I was pulling the notes out of tune by pressing to hard when playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I have just finished my third guitar, well, a few weeks ago that is. Only 1 thing wrong. It has horrible intonation issues!!!! When tuned to pitch, its right on at the 12th fret. But on the 5-9 frets on the A D and G strings, it sounds horrbily off. It is only off a few tics on those notes though. I dont know why its sounding so out of tune. And i cant check at the first fret, because my tuner doesnt pick up those notes. Any tips? Could be there's too much relief ---that coupled with a heavy hand and taller/jumbo frets could definitely throw things off. There's always the possibility that it's the E and B strings causing the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 What tuner is it that doesn't pick up notes on open strings?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Have you got new strings? An old worn out string, or one with a kink in it (if you've been putting the same strings on the guitar off and on while you set it up, or if you managed to squash the string bad enough to kink when it was coiled in the package - I sat on a set of strings once and did this) can make a string impossible to intonate. A like others said, good tuner is a must, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 whats the nut like? sounds like the tuner aint great but if it picks up notes at the 5th fret why not try intonating 5-17th rather than 0-12th... this is usually a good check after the normal one anyway i would say try 1-13th if you can get hold of a tuner that will pick up the notes (most really should be able to!!).... if you can get the intonation ok like that then the nut is the cause of your problems since it is unlikely to be fret slots if your brought a pre-slotted board (still worth checking if you cant find it, you never know) +1 on the new string thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 +1 on the new string thing +2 ! Good call, j.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 It couldn't be that, i didnt level the frets at all, they were already level. So there was no crowning done. I read 5 replies to this and backed up. You used an unfretted LMI board, "It was a pre slotted board from LMI", and fretted it but didnt touch the frets after that. If I am interpreting this right then you need to take the strings off level and crown the frets????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesy Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I read 5 replies to this and backed up. You used an unfretted LMI board, "It was a pre slotted board from LMI", and fretted it but didnt touch the frets after that. If I am interpreting this right then you need to take the strings off level and crown the frets????? Had a discussion about this earlier. It is possible to get all the frets seated well enought to not really need levelling and crowning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 On the note of the frets being level enough after seating. What type of straightedge was used to measure how level the frets were. Or the fretboard itself for that matter. A hardware store grade straightedge, has a good chance of not being flat enough. A job like that needs to be done with a precision straight edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood is good Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 On the note of the frets being level enough after seating. What type of straightedge was used to measure how level the frets were. Or the fretboard itself for that matter. A hardware store grade straightedge, has a good chance of not being flat enough. A job like that needs to be done with a precision straight edge. Well, if its not buzzing anywhere, and all the notes produce the right notes (just a few ticks off from exact) then doesnt that mean the frets are perfectly level? I diddnt say my tuner doesnt pick up open string notes. Where did you guys get that from? I just said it doesnt pick up some. Like it wont pick up any notes on the low e untilt he 5th fret. But it does work open. Its a brand new korg tuner, its a nice one. It could be the nut, but how would that affect the middle frets? Its not the action, the action is fine. Like i said, with the tuner, it only says its just a few ticks off on middle frets from being perfectly intonated. but i just sounds like its a whole lot worse than what the tuner shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 "fine" can be a very subjective word.... take string height measurement at the nut and the 12th fret so we have something to go off.... if you have very high action which may be "fine" to you it will throw your intonation out. Like Ihocky said, to have great intonation you need a strobe tuner (or a great ear). you say your tuner's a nice one but it wont pick up F through G# on the low E! and this too: "but i just sounds like its a whole lot worse than what the tuner shows." are you plugging into the tuner or relying on the built in mic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood is good Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Im plugging it in to the tuner. Its wierd, it shows the tuning a bit different depending on what pickup i select. I dont have anything to measure the string height with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 what about frets 1-5? Do they intonate ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesy Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Im plugging it in to the tuner. Its wierd, it shows the tuning a bit different depending on what pickup i select. I dont have anything to measure the string height with. Sounds like the tuner is picking up on some weird harmonics maybe. Having pickups too close to the strings can cause problems if the magnetic pull on the strings is too great. FWIW - I am never happy with a guitar's tuning just from an electronic tuner. I always need to tweak a few strings to get it sounding good. Some people here explained some reasons why on a thread where I was asking about the need for compromise tuning. The scale isn't perfect to start with and any real-world instrument, even less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 you definatly need to lower all but one of your pickups out the way completely. The reason i mentioned the nut is because you said you could not check 1-4 and that 5-9 were wrong... i would still do the checks people have mentioned even if you dont feel its an issue. as for this frets not needing levelling thing... i think we accepted that some people were skilled enough (or claimed to be) to not need to level and some people didnt need to level because they had a high enough action that it wouldnt buzz anyway. I do not think it would be good advice to suggest to people that they do not need to level there frets as in most cases it is simply not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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