Headstock... Joints?!

[xXMikeXx]

Right... Well i know this has probably been asked like a million times before, but I'm damned if i can find it :S

So, My question is, what is the best headstock design on angling?

I have a HUGE piece of hard maple and another in black walnut... Let's just say i can make any headstock design i want, so... ramble ramble ramble... Is it better to cut the angle in one piece with no joint or is a scarf joint better? (I want to know so i can make the best quality necks i can)

Because... and here is where it's most important to me as this wood was not cheap... (quartersawn) if i have no joint and just cut out in one go, i can make roughly 4-5 thru-necks from it... with a scarf joint it's more like 8-9. Bringing my cost down for each guitar about 20-30GBP.

But for me, quality far outweighs cost efficiency.

Help?!

Thanks,

Mike.

*EDIT* I realize i contradicted myself a little lol... But although it's expensive, I would much rather sacrifice money than know i could have made a better quality neck.

Edited September 15, 2010 by xXMikeXx

[avengers63]

As you well know, any time you make a glue joint you run the risk of that joint failing. I'd personally say that the risk here would be negligible so long as the joint was well made.

Personally, I prefer to make a 1-piece neck, but as you mentioned, that takes more wood and is not as efficient.

Have you considered s drop-down Fender style headstock? That'd be the ultimate in efficiency and labor reduction, as well as material strength with no glue joints.

[xXMikeXx]

S Drop-Down? I cant say I've heard of that... Not a surprise considering I don't like Fenders.

I'll look it up, Thanks for the reply!

Wait, do you mean the one where it's slightly set back but straight? Because i really like the look of angled... Although that would save time and wood.

Edited September 15, 2010 by xXMikeXx

[ihocky2]

If you search on here for scarfed joints you'll find a lot of information on this topic. There is a youtube video comparing a one piece angled head and a scarfed joint and the scarf joint is much stronger. A good joint is stronger than the wood itself.

[avengers63]

S Drop-Down? I cant say I've heard of that... Not a surprise considering I don't like Fenders.

I'll look it up, Thanks for the reply!

Wait, do you mean the one where it's slightly set back but straight? Because i really like the look of angled... Although that would save time and wood.

Like this....

I'm sure you could easily find examples of it pointy as well.

[westhemann]

I like one piece(no scarf)..but there really is no reason.A good scarf joint is awesome.

[avengers63]

I like one piece(no scarf)..but there really is no reason.A good scarf joint is awesome.

I have no problems with a scarf either. They're not hard, conserve wood, and add an opportunity for some extra decoration (see RAD's builds).

[westhemann]

I wasn't arguing.I just prefer one piece,but honestly I think it's only just a preference,with no reason behind it.

If I buy the guitar,I don't care at all one way or the other.As far as wasting wood though,I see no reason behind that...When I build it's really not about cutting costs at all.I don't care if I waste an entire neck's worth of wood

[avengers63]

As far as wasting wood though,I see no reason behind that...When I build it's really not about cutting costs at all.I don't care if I waste an entire neck's worth of wood

I understand not wanting to waste the wood, but I'm with you on this one. If I want a one-piece tiltback, I could care less about how much goes to waste. We're mostly doing custom one-offs, not production models, so wasting a little isn't a really big deal.

[ihocky2]

Knowing most of the guys on here that extra cut off wood never really goes to waste anyway. I can't keep my wife out of my scrap pile no matter how hard I try. It took me a week to convince her that poplar is going to make horrible looking pens.

[avengers63]

I was looking hard into getting a small lathe last year. It ended up being too much of an investment at this point. I need a spray setup a lot more than I need another dust/chip generator.

[ihocky2]

Not to take this too far off topic, but a lathe can pay for itself pretty quickly. My grandmother already goes to craft shows to sell her knitting so I send pens and bottle stoppers with her. Little scraps of wood that I normally would use for fire wood are now being used for profit. As long as you or someone you know is willing to spend a weekend at a craft fair occasionally you can make decent side change from scraps.

[stereordinary]

I'm in the same boat where I prefer and almost always make angled headstock necks once-piece and just waste wood. But I agree that a good scarf joint is just as good if not better.

Just curious though, has anyone here ever done a splice joint on a headstock? I did one and it's not just strong as heck, but looks good to. You can see the joint where the headstock transitions in to the back of the neck, but it's almost like an accent line, practically acting as a guide to tell you where to carve the transition. Seriously cool. And with a veneer on the front of the headstock, it all makes for a very clean look.

[avengers63]

Just curious though, has anyone here ever done a splice joint on a headstock? I did one and it's not just strong as heck, but looks good to. You can see the joint where the headstock transitions in to the back of the neck, but it's almost like an accent line, practically acting as a guide to tell you where to carve the transition. Seriously cool. And with a veneer on the front of the headstock, it all makes for a very clean look.

You'd have to show me a pic to know exactly what you're talking about. From your description, I just can't wrap my head around it.

[killemall8]

I love scarfs.

[avengers63]

I love scarfs.

So does the 4th Doctor.

Yea.... I'm a little bored today.

[RestorationAD]

I love scarfs.

So does the 4th Doctor.

Yea.... I'm a little bored today.

Tom Baker rocks! I loved that show... I loved it so much I watched Jon Pertwee and Peter Davison...

[avengers63]

Tom Baker rocks! I loved that show... I loved it so much I watched Jon Pertwee and Peter Davison...

I downloaded the entire thing last year. Everything. William Hartnell's 1st episode through the latest BBC versions. It's taking just forever to watch them all in order. I'm in the middle of the Tom Baker run right now. Romana just came in as the new companion.

[RestorationAD]

Tom Baker rocks! I loved that show... I loved it so much I watched Jon Pertwee and Peter Davison...

I downloaded the entire thing last year. Everything. William Hartnell's 1st episode through the latest BBC versions. It's taking just forever to watch them all in order. I'm in the middle of the Tom Baker run right now. Romana just came in as the new companion.

Loved Mary Tamm... Lalla Ward not so much.

I guess I should contribute something to the thread.

I hate/love Scrafs. Sometimes they are the evil necessity to conserve wood while building a very strong neck. I have used several laminating (with varying grain alignment) techniques to build strong non-scarfed necks. I do throw some decoration in sometimes but I am very careful not to compromise the strength of the joint.

When building prototypes (and personal guitars) I hate to waste wood. I don't like wasting wood on customer guitars but when they are paying I build the greatest instrument I can... sometimes that means sacrificing some wood. Later I take those sacrifices and build something out of them.

Read through a few of my build threads and I cover both types of scarfs I use.

[brian d]

Another vote for scarf joint here. Whether true or just urban legend (I'm not in a position to judge) the one piece neck is weaker than the scarf jointed neck, and Gibson and Epi guitars are (in)famous for headstock breakages for this reason. Believing this helps me avoid the awful feeling of wasting perfectly good timber.

Another option is to do multi-lam necks, where you can save some wood by having the lams "nesting" in each other on the blank, or tail to toe so you use the timber between the headstock angle and the heel.

JMHO.

Brian.

[stereordinary]

Just curious though, has anyone here ever done a splice joint on a headstock? I did one and it's not just strong as heck, but looks good to. You can see the joint where the headstock transitions in to the back of the neck, but it's almost like an accent line, practically acting as a guide to tell you where to carve the transition. Seriously cool. And with a veneer on the front of the headstock, it all makes for a very clean look.

You'd have to show me a pic to know exactly what you're talking about. From your description, I just can't wrap my head around it.

It's done on classical acoustics a lot from what I can gather. And it's possible that I have the terminology wrong. But it's basically the same thing as a scarf joint, except instead of cutting an angle in the wood and gluing the cut off bit back on, you just glue a flat slab of wood on to the back of the still flat headstock (which can be a too short headstock, if you calculate right), and then cut an angle over the whole thing, essentially treating it like a one-piece neck.

[avengers63]

So you build the thickness of the headstock area, then cut it at an angle. I did that once, before I learned how to do a proper scarf. It was easy enough, but still pretty wasteful.

As far as it's strength, I'd speculate that the built-up headstocks might be stronger than a one-piece. Like someone else said already, the glue joints are stronger than the surrounding wood.

Bottom line here: "Dr. Who" is awesome, and there's nothing wrong with a well made scarf joint.