SwedishLuthier Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Not to hijack the thread, but I have switched over to Epoxy for almost everything I glue that has to do with the neck, Headstock scarf, neck laminations, fretboard, as I seem to get a bit less problem with the different parts moving/swelling/shrinking due to what I believe is the water in the wood glue. And Wes is right, use the 24 h stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 What Swede said, plus when body parts contain oily exotics. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I had to cut off the lower body wing and redo the joint due to a suck ass glue line...so it's once again curing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 The 5 min stuff can be converted to 48h (or more) stuff if you add less catalyst(?)... trust me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I did some experimenting once upon a time and learned another fun fact about catalyst to resin ratios. On a 50/50 split if you go a little over on the hardener the epoxy cures softer andif you go a little under on the hardener it cures harder. That is counter-intuitive but true. ......Actually for the sake of accuracy, I did that test on a couple of 30 minute epoxies and the 24 hour T-88. West Systems epoxy is supposed to require very accurate ratios, so I cannot claim to know how that would come out if mixed a little high or low. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I was wondering about this same issue. Back in Venezuela i used this 2 ton epoxy made by Devcon. Great stuff, hard, easy to work with, cheap ( and it was top quality) and its setting time was around 8 hours. Now i have moved to Spain where the epoxy i have found is made by Ceys, which seems to be a top brand and top quality, but it is very expensive... the label reads that it's setting time is 6 hours. I have been tempted to buy polyurethane glue, but after reading this, i won't, now, do you think it'll be fine using this epoxy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Curing time is not the only consideration as to whether an epoxy is good for use on wood.Obviously it's feasible to have a very thin epoxy formula that would penetrate the wood and create a strong bond in a shorter time frame than 24 hours. All of the quality epoxies I have used are 24 hour cure and all of the 5 to 20 minute varieties have been crap...but the main issue with "5 minute epoxy" is that when people say 5 minute epoxy they mean that Loctite crap you get at your garden variety big box store...and that stuff is only good for use on stuff that doesn't matter to anyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 By the way as an update...I am waiting on some new Floyd inserts because I somehow misplaced the ones that came with this bridge when I bought it 9 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) Curing time is not the only consideration as to whether an epoxy is good for use on wood.Obviously it's feasible to have a very thin epoxy formula that would penetrate the wood and create a strong bond in a shorter time frame than 24 hours. All of the quality epoxies I have used are 24 hour cure and all of the 5 to 20 minute varieties have been crap...but the main issue with "5 minute epoxy" is that when people say 5 minute epoxy they mean that Loctite crap you get at your garden variety big box store...and that stuff is only good for use on stuff that doesn't matter to anyone. 5 minutes epoxy sucks, regardless of the brand. The one i have bought it's thin, sets in 6 hours, and resists traction up to 350 kilograms/cm2 ( roughly 305 lbs/ inch) which makes me think it has a great bonding strength Edited April 26, 2013 by eddiewarlock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf I think you are talking of lap shear strength?on what material? T88 is 1800 psi on maple,and the maple failed first.Just for comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 No idea, Wes, it's just what it says on the label. BTW i forgot to mention that said epoxi is Araldit, which, and correct me if i am wrong, seems to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 Araldite is general purpose epoxy that never truly cures, if I recall. Pretty much all of the DIY epoxies are along those lines. They end up being an ultra-thick mechanical adhesive as opposed to a rock-solid cured material. The marginal softness is more appropriate for the kind of DIY adhering jobs it is made for. Wes on completely on the mark here. Although some say it can be a little unforgiving, West System epoxy has proven perfect for all the applications I have used it for. The only problem I ever has was a bad mix in a quantity that was too large and went into thermal runaway after leaving it in the sun. I was asking for it. I made up a batch and mixed in some Fiebings leather dye (the stuff used to dye Ebony fretboards jet black) to fill in some surface checking on the legs of my workbench project. Looks fantastic when levelled off and didn't seem to mind me contaminating it with the dye. Also worked well with powder pigments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted April 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 I made up a batch and mixed in some Fiebings leather dye (the stuff used to dye Ebony fretboards jet black) to fill in some surface checking on the legs of my workbench project. Looks fantastic when levelled off and didn't seem to mind me contaminating it with the dye. I do the same thing.I use mixol quite often with mine for weird things like side dots or accented glue lines...it always cures just fine.I know nothing of "Araldite" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 Not far off your Loctite hardware store epoxy. Two part, mixes up a thick goo like melted candy. Awful stuff really. Kind of like the Bondo of epoxy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 **** me then...there is nothing better in this country...grrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 the epoxi i used to use in Venezuela was thick, not clear at all. It fully cured after 24 hours. Rock solid. 10 times cheaper too. seems like i'll have to buy polyurethane glue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 You might need to shop around a bit however there are plenty of distributors of various epoxies in the EU that will ship out to you. It's worth the effort because the difference is like night and day between DIY epoxies and products such as "marine" epoxies. One is good for use around the home, the other is designed to keep yachts and large ships watertight :-) Try some of the distributors here for West System: http://www.wessex-resins.com/westsystem/international-distributors.html The 101 mini pack kit is a great buy for a fire-and-forget epoxy setup: http://www.wessex-resins.com/westsystem/kits.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Yeah..seems like i'll contact them, but it's frustrating. You'd think that moving from South America to Europe is great and you'll find everything cheaper and better. Not in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Not far off your Loctite hardware store epoxy. Two part, mixes up a thick goo like melted candy. Awful stuff really. Kind of like the Bondo of epoxy. I did think it was ok 7.50 euros for that epoxi ( 10 us $) I used it to fix the holes that the nazi onal guard made in my guitar for being against the goverment. Sanded well and rock solid. That's why i thought it might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Don't worry about it. It's the same here in Finland. Small population and self-reliant so finding things often requires a longer arm. The cool thing about being EU is that you don't have to worry about import duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Ouch. That looks painful. Still, the guitar prevailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 They drilled 3 holes...they said i carried drugs inside the guitar. The scanned 3 times. But didn't give it to the drugs dog to sniff it. They just wanted to **** me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 I am appalled...don't even know what to say. I just can't see that ever happening here without serious repercussions.The media would be all over it.I guess that is one good thing about the media being the way it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 That's because the media in the USA isn't controlled ( yet) by the goverment. Anyways, I guess i'll open my own thread regarding these builds as i have hijacked Wes' thread enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Harsh. Hey, despite the swear filter asterisking stuff out please observe board guidelines and don't write things that trip it in the first place, k? Yeah, I think bloody-mindedness it is common across all police forces. Even here in Finland - especially here in Pori - police can just make life awkward for you if your face doesn't fit. Not to the point of hauling you in under suspicion with no grounds just to mess with your valuable property though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.