First scratch build begins

[BetterOffShred]

Hello everybody, I have been working on the designs for my first scratch build guitar, and have come to the point where I need to start documentation of my progress. I have some questions for sure, and I will address them as I go here. I expect this process to be slow and involve a steep learning curve, but that's Ok with me.

So lets see here, I know everyone says to build a basic guitar for your first go, and I agree with this completely, but that being said If I'm going to spend the time and money, it has to be something I'm going to want to play. so I decided on building a two humbucker 8-string guitar for my first go.

These are the specs I have at this point:

27" scale

24 fret (not sure how to plan where my heel joint will fall on the Neck yet.. still reading up on that one)

10 degree down bubble scarf-joint

Nut width: 2-1/8" (basing these measurements off a Schecter I played that I liked the neck on)

5 piece Walnut/maple/walnut/maple/walnut sandwich neck

Truss Rod.. I have seen double rods on a lot of 8 strings, and I have seen single rods, so I am still trying to figure this out as well, and I was hoping someone who has built an 8-string (swedishluthier) might share which rod and length they used

I plan on doing a True bolt-on in the fashion of swedishluthier's countersunk nuts with the claws on them for a nice tidy fit.

Some variety of Figured maple finger-board, probably 20" radius, Jumbo frets, I haven't done any fretting before so I'll probably not use SS on this first go.

Hipshot open gear tuners (which they supply specs for on their page, awesome)

I also plan on doing binding on the neck/head/body at this point.

1-1/2" mohogany body with 1/4" top of something interesting I find between now and then.. for a total thickness of 1-3/4" bound hopefully with something red-ish.

Hipshot .125" bridge, which according to my amateur calculations would set the top of my frets at .300" off the top of the body of the guitar with 0 degree neck angle. (give or take a little for fret leveling)

Single volume single tone, 5-way selector with Lace DeathBar and X-Bar set up for coil tapping goodness.

I like the recessed jacks, I forget what they are called electro something.. I have one my Tele and it's great.

Anyway, I am going to do 3x3/4" strips of walnut and 2x1/2" strips of maple for my neck sandwich, which will give me a 3-1/4" wide blank and based off my drawings and the hipshot string spacing of 2.914" can be shaped into 3" at the body end of the fretboard, and I'm still figuring how deep the neck needs to be. My 7 string Ibanez neck has a 3/4" heel not including the fingerboard so I may go measure a couple of 8-strings and see what the norm is.

There is more of course, but I'll start with that and then post some pics later of the tools I have at my disposal and the wood I have acquired

So if this is total folly please let me know, but right now I'm looking at this as a pretty basic bolt on neck guitar build with a super-strat body. Stew Mac's fretboard calculator spit out some fretboard dimensions based off my desired 27" scale, so I'm going to start making the neck sandwich today hopefully.

-Brett

[BetterOffShred]

I also have a half of a sheet of 3/4" MDF ready for building templates for this guitar, and a bunch of 3/4" plywood to build the templates template if you know what I mean. I had planned on roughing most things I'm going to cut on plywood or something else cheap before I lay hands on the finished product wood. Having gone through the complete template guide posted here I feel confident in the process once I know what I'm shooting for

I also have an old slab of maple I was going to practice fretting on before I got carried away on my fancy figured maple fretboard.

-Brett

[ScottR]

Sounds like an ambitious first build. Having said that you also sound like you know your way around a wood shop and guitars both and you are doing your research. There is no reason at all not to have an ambitious first build if you have decent woodworking skills and plan well. As long as you test on scrap any first time operations you should be fine. Have fun with it, I'll enjoy watching.

SR

[curtisa]

The neck thickness on my 8 string I built about 2 years ago was a little shallow at 17mm at the neck pocket, plus 7mm for the fretboard, but is perfectly stable and playable. I used the .175" Hipshot bridge due to the extra height I needed for the slightly thicker fretboard.

There's probably no hard and fast rules regarding neck thickness at the pocket as long as it looks OK (ie, not less than the thickness of the "played" part of the neck), has enough material for the neck screws to hold on to and doesn't leave you with a heel that's too bulky to be comfortable. I now usually aim for thickness at the 12th (ie, neck + fretboard) +6mm or so, which covers most situations where a 3/4" blank is used.

[BetterOffShred]

Thanks guys, I picked up a piece of flame maple that has some really amazing grain. Got a short that's got about 3 usable feet for 10 bucks, so I feel pretty good about that. I was planning on using this for a fretboard because I've never seen it and I like flame maple

Thanks for the words ScottR, I'm definitely not a seasoned woodworker but I've used precision tools and done some machine work when I worked at the Caterpillar dealership (did engine work) and I usually watch about 8 videos on something before I go try it on scrap wood

Thanks for the tip Curtisa, do you feel a 3/4" blank is adequate for an 8 string? 17mm is like .669ish inches, so that's shy of 3/4" by just about 2mm. I would be happy with a 3/4 neck heel and I was fixing to have my flame maple resawed into around 1/4" and then plane it down a bit and then radius it. I wanted to have more wood on the body side so I can imitate an Ibanez all access cutaway which I know and love. Also while I'm asking questions.. Did you do double or single truss rod? and how long? Do you have a build documented for this guitar? I'd love to see it!

I scored a crafstman 4-1/8" planer/Jointer today too so I feel a lot better about getting square edges on my neck pieces.

More to come

-Brett

[curtisa]

Thanks for the tip Curtisa, do you feel a 3/4" blank is adequate for an 8 string? 17mm is like .669ish inches, so that's shy of 3/4" by just about 2mm. I would be happy with a 3/4 neck heel and I was fixing to have my flame maple resawed into around 1/4" and then plane it down a bit and then radius it. I wanted to have more wood on the body side so I can imitate an Ibanez all access cutaway which I know and love. Also while I'm asking questions.. Did you do double or single truss rod? and how long? Do you have a build documented for this guitar? I'd love to see it!

Don't forget that the neck thickness at any point along its length is [neck blank] + [fretboard]. In my case the total thickness at the pocket was 17mm + 7mm = 24mm, just shy of an inch. If you were using a thinner fretboard you'd want to increase the thickness of the blank to maintain the overall thickness. A 3/4" blank (19mm) should be good for 95% of builds. The only situation I can forsee you'd want a thicker blank on a bolt-on guitar to start with is if you were building a neck with a particularly beefy profile or a one piece neck ( eg, Fender Strat all-maple neck with skunk stripe on the back). My only real issue with using the 17mm blank at the time was that it made for a fairly shallow volute once carved, which doesn't look particularly nice. The extra 2mm would have helped here.

Single truss rod on my build. Pretty sure it was the standard Allparts 18" double action one. It was just before I switched to the Allied Lutherie rods, but they're all fairly similar. That was on a neck for 26.5" scale length, but I'm fairly sure RestorationAD made an 8 string a few years back using the same single trussrod over a 28" scale length neck without any issues. Build thread is located

[BetterOffShred]

Hey cool, thank you very much for the response. I'm looking forward to scoping out the build.

I spent a couple hours getting the fence on my jointer at 90° and then practicing on some scrap oak I had.

I get what you mean about the total thickness. I'll go with the 3/4" blank and my fretboard will be a little under 1/4", and yes I forgot about the volute. I guess a lot of first builders forget it

Thanks again curtisa I appreciate the wisdom you're willing to share

-Brett

[curtisa]

Don't take my word for gospel, I've only built 6 or 7 instruments so far - I'm still an amateur at this game!

Good luck with your build. We're always keen to see the progress and finished product around these parts.

[BetterOffShred]

Man that 8 string turned out really nice. I have to agree with everyone else in that post.. You have great woods in Tasmania.. The guitar looks really beautiful.

I'll take anyone's tips who's Willing to share, and sometimes someone who is closer to the beginning remembers the early mistakes I'm very likely to make

I do appreciate it.

-Brett

[Original]

I always advise people to start simple. So many new builder's try to put way too much into a guitar. Expensive parts, and materials don't 'make' the instrument as much as the craftsmanship involved. If You're not comfortable with an easy project, a complicated one could be very frustrating, expensive, take forever, and not be what you want when you're done. There's nothing wrong with simple guitars. A project that's not so complicated will give you a chance to establish some skills with your new tools, and get familiar with the tolerances that you're dealing with. It's just natural enthusiasm that makes you want to build a dream guitar on your first try, but it might be wiser to take a step back, and hone your skills on something that has less room for failure. If you're overwhelmed with your first one there might not ever be a second. The skills that You learn on a simple project will be apparent on the more difficult endeavors down the road.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. Just sayin', Build an easy, cheap one first, learn some skills, and your 8 string thing will come out way nicer.

Be careful with that jointer! I think more woodworkers are injured by them than any other shop tool.

[BetterOffShred]

Hey thanks for the advice Original. I appreciate the insight. I'm fully expecting some level of failure in this build at some point, and I'm real about the chances of it turning out perfect (slim to none).

The jointer is definitely a beast that would consume body parts if given the chance. I have a lot of push sticks and handles etc I've been using as I practice.

When I was in 8th grade two decades ago in woodshop class I was making an oak clock for my mom and some idiots bumped into me while I was using the band saw. The blade went halfway through the knuckle of my left hand ring finger, but somehow missed all the tendons, so I have a jagged scar to remind me of the power of tools every day. I don't get my hands near anything!

Anyone have an opinion on which titebond I should buy, 1 or 2?

-Brett

Edited September 13, 2014 by BetterOffShred

[Original]

Original Titebond is the only one that won't creep. Never use glue that you don't know the history of. If it's been sitting on your shelf for a while, throw it away, and get some that's fresh. Extreme temperatures in either direction, and sitting on the shelf will degrade the adhesive.

[BetterOffShred]

Solid. Thank you Sir. I'm going to snag a jug today.

-Brett

[KnightroExpress]

Yep, TB1. I'm excited to see your project!

[SerpentineGtars]

Thanks for the tip Curtisa, do you feel a 3/4" blank is adequate for an 8 string? 17mm is like .669ish inches, so that's shy of 3/4" by just about 2mm. I would be happy with a 3/4 neck heel and I was fixing to have my flame maple resawed into around 1/4" and then plane it down a bit and then radius it. I wanted to have more wood on the body side so I can imitate an Ibanez all access cutaway which I know and love. Also while I'm asking questions.. Did you do double or single truss rod? and how long? Do you have a build documented for this guitar? I'd love to see it!

Don't forget that the neck thickness at any point along its length is [neck blank] + [fretboard]. In my case the total thickness at the pocket was 17mm + 7mm = 24mm, just shy of an inch. If you were using a thinner fretboard you'd want to increase the thickness of the blank to maintain the overall thickness. A 3/4" blank (19mm) should be good for 95% of builds. The only situation I can forsee you'd want a thicker blank on a bolt-on guitar to start with is if you were building a neck with a particularly beefy profile or a one piece neck ( eg, Fender Strat all-maple neck with skunk stripe on the back). My only real issue with using the 17mm blank at the time was that it made for a fairly shallow volute once carved, which doesn't look particularly nice. The extra 2mm would have helped here.

Single truss rod on my build. Pretty sure it was the standard Allparts 18" double action one. It was just before I switched to the Allied Lutherie rods, but they're all fairly similar. That was on a neck for 26.5" scale length, but I'm fairly sure RestorationAD made an 8 string a few years back using the same single trussrod over a 28" scale length neck without any issues. Build thread is located

Standard truss rod and perhaps a couple of carbon fibre rods for extra strength... But don't buy CF rods specifically manufactured for guitar necks, they can cost a fortune. Instead something like this will work; http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/products/carbon-fiber-section/carbon-fibre-box-section-6mm-4mm.aspx and costs a fraction of the price.

[BetterOffShred]

That's a pretty cool idea, the carbon fiber rods. How far away from the rod channel do you usually put them ?

I cut and joined my walnut last night and started ripping strips of maple for my neck blank and noticed that the blade on my table saw wasn't going to cut it (har har puns). I'll go buy a new one today.

So here's a rookie question.. My lumber is factory cut on 3 sides and is between .805" and .825" thick according to my dial indicator.. So can I rip my appropriate widths off this board and joint them to appropriate width and then use the planer to take a RCH off each side till I'm at .750" for my 3/4"? Or maybe glue all my strips and then plane the whole thing?

Both the books I have don't really discuss preparing the lumber for the neck blank, so I'm sort of confused on what the best option is my original plan was to just use strips cut off and stacked vertically side by side .. But this seems stupid if the lumber is that close to .750"

I did make a body blank to test my jointing and planing technique, it turned out OK but it was made out of a big piece of oak I got for free.. So it probably won't end up a real body.. Its so heavy!

-Brett

[demonx]

For a neck blank, the more "quartered" it is, the better, but don't read too much into that as there are several massive name companies that have been using non quartered (flat/rift sawn) for decades without issue.

Usually if you see two or three piece necks it is because the person gas taken a flat sawn piece, cut and flipped it do the pieces are running as if it was quarter sawn.

Just use your own discretion and make sure you have enough meat in the bone to plane it back for the fingerboard surface and still leave enough to carve the heel etc

[BetterOffShred]

Cool thanks for the advice! I ended up getting a new table saw blade, and ripping my maple strips a little over .500" and then running them through the planer to size, so my whole sandwich is going to be roughly .810" tall when glued, so then I'll run that through the planer down to .750" I have a couple pieces of oak that are the same size I was thinking to add for contrast, but this is my first build so I'll just go with the five pieces and see if I can do that correctly!

As for quartered, yeah none of my wood is super quartered, but its not straight grain or anything either so hopefully a 5 piece will help

Ill post some pics of my pieces before I glue. I need to get my imageshack account going again.

-Brett

[BetterOffShred]

Ok so I ran my equipment for a while and I figured I'd finally post some pictures.

This is my makeshift planer table and my cousins Ryobi 13" planer, which has been working really nice.

This is my Junky Table saw, which works pretty good I guess, the new blade helped a ton.

My jointer, which has proven to be pretty handy as well

Here is what I plan on making my fingerboard out of:

and yeah I saw that it's got a big curve in the end there, but that is 6" or so past what I plan on using

So after I cut and planed, this is what I came up with

I ended up putting a couple of .125" slices of some wood I had laying around (I don't know what it is) into the laminate for added contrast anyway.. I know I said I was going to avoid that, but once I got going with the saws everything was working out so well I figured why the heck not?

I was shooting for 3.250" for my blank to give me a little fudge room at the heel end:

so I ended up at 3.267" .. not bad for wood I guess. I'm used to running a counter-bore machine on caterpillar engines and you have to be within .001" but that's cast Iron ..

so I'm going to glue it up and see how much the dimensions change, right now it's about .830" deep, which I plan on planing to .750" once It dries. It seemed like a good idea..

-Brett

[Original]

It looks good so far. Nice big shop you have there.

Pushing that curly maple through your thickness planer might prove to be challenging. Tearout's are common with highly figured material. I like to use my router sled for such things. It gets used more than my thickness planer. Here's a picture in case you're not familiar.

[BetterOffShred]

Haha yeah.. Big shop . The area pictured is outside my garage which is empty and I can work in there once the weather gets crappy, but it was just so nice today I figured I'd cut in the sun

I think I am going to have a cabinet shop in town resaw my curly maple into 1/4" slabs and then just take it down by hand. I was definitely concerned about the planer tearing it up.

I also have a drill press and some crap hand tools. My Buddy has a band saw and a chop saw, and my dad is giving me his plunge router setup so I may have to build a router table. Does MDF work good for tops on router tables ?

Thanks for looking

-Brett

[Original]

I'd avoid using MDF. It's not very stable, and has a tendency to warp. I used birch plywood for mine.

Once you have one, you'll find more uses for it than you ever imagined. I use mine WAY more than I do my thickness planer.

Don't be surprised if that maple warps when you run it through a table saw. Be ready with a shim to stuff into the kerf to spread it as you go.

[BetterOffShred]

Well I glued it up, and foolishly I did so in the sun and the glue was drying fast on me, so my laminates are not flat on one side.. it kind of resembles a "W" when you run your finger across it.. But it's glued up now, so ill just run it through the planer tomorrow and see how thin it gets before it's flat. Worst case scenario I'll just cut some more strips and start over

It looks like it may come out pretty close to my target .750" I guess if I put carbon rods in it I could go a little thinner maybe?

-Brett

[BetterOffShred]

Quick question for anyone who might have an opinion.. So my neck is going to be 3" wide at the heel, I made my blank 1/8" over on each side, is this not worth doing? I figured I would make a heel template and route it to size after I rough it out on the band saw.

-Brett

[killemall8]

Well I glued it up, and foolishly I did so in the sun and the glue was drying fast on me, so my laminates are not flat on one side.. it kind of resembles a "W" when you run your finger across it.. But it's glued up now, so ill just run it through the planer tomorrow and see how thin it gets before it's flat. Worst case scenario I'll just cut some more strips and start over

It looks like it may come out pretty close to my target .750" I guess if I put carbon rods in it I could go a little thinner maybe?

-Brett

Is that your finished thickness with fretboard, or just neck blank?

You shouldnt plane your neck blank down to finished thickness before carving.