razzark Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I noticed in many pictures that I see it looks like you guys glue 2 pieces of wood together. If I were to purchase the body blanks from warmoth to make an SG style guitar would I need to buy two body blanks or just one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 just one, they joint, glue and plane them for you, hence you buy one, two peice body, or one one peice body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Some places don't glue the pieces together for you. Seems like LMII doesn't glue 2-piece body blanks for you. It depends on how much work you want to do, or how much work you can do. If you get the 2 piece blank unglued then you can expect to have to do more prep to the wood and more sanding & scraping when it is glued. It's easier to get the blank glued up and ready to rip but those cost a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Jabsco Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I JUST got done glueing 2 peices togeather for my bass. It was a real b**** to get the peices to fit perfectly because all i was using was a table saw. It took me about 10 passes i would say to get it just right, But Its ok if its just the tineyst bit off, cause the clamps bend it togeather a little bit when you glue. Overall it took about 30 miunets. so its not so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yeah that's why I get my friend to run all my edges through his 6" jointer.. lol Makes life simple. I've been through those same issues with trying to get the pieces of wood to glue together seemlessly. With a good jointer you should have a pefect fit without the least bit of space visable when put together. When I first started off, I thought I'd be smart and just use a hand plane to get the edges right, but I gave up on that, just took too long and still wasn't as good as I like. The best glue joint I ever got before using a good jointer was bringing the 2 pieces of body blanks to a local cabinet shop and they don't use jointers. They use a huge belt sander like the clip below and ran it across it a couple of times.. and wham .. perfect. But then again, not everyone can afford a huge edge sander.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Forgot to mention that the reason they gave up on using a jointer is because they get some tearout at times with a jointer and have to always make sure the blades are kept sharp to prevent problems. With a big belt sander you don't have those problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob7 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 just did half of my 3 piece gluing today....thought it would take a good hour...and it took 3, and its still not perfect (but its close enough since i plan on hollowing some, and then throwin a cap on.....its downstairs right now gettin titebonded up....(which reminds me i should go edit my in progress post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 i've never trusted sanders to be that true, but then again i only use a little 300$ model, that thing is hudge GuitarFrenzy!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 i've never trusted sanders to be that true, but then again i only use a little 300$ model, that thing is hudge GuitarFrenzy!!!! As a previous cabinet maker, i have to say i agree derek. Sanders are a compromise, but better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I can go back and get a picture of it, but it was the biggest belt edge sander I've ever seen.. I can't speak for others but it was flawless the one they had. So I was just speaking from the knowledge I have at the moment. I'm not saying to buy one because they are way out of reach of the average guitar maker. I was just saying that I was shocked they don't like jointers.. but then again they build alot of cabinets so maybe the jointer is harder to keep working. Nothing wrong with a jointer, I really think they work great, but they do have a chance of tearout at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yeah, jointers are tricky to set up right. Well, let me say that again... the monkeys that normally work at cabinet shops, usually have no idea how to set them up correctly. If they are sharp, and you take small cuts with each pass, you wont get tearout. ****, ive machined up some killer quilt without tearout, and if any grain is gunna tear, its flame or quilt. At my previous job, i used to set up the blades, and then some clown would come along and machine some recycled timber (without removing old nails, etc) and kill the brand new blades. Those blades would stay in there until i needed to make another guitar, and i would get new blades, and change them. Then, without fail, the clowns would machine up some more wood with nails in it, and kill the blades again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 At my school we got a belt stroke sander, its a huge mother sander, the belt mesures 8 inches wide by 40 inches long (thats only the part you sand, that aint includin the whole roll) and its a nice sander, it gets it really smooth and its on medium grit, but then go to hand sanding with fine and you can get it almost like glass Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yeah, jointers are tricky to set up right. Well, let me say that again... the monkeys that normally work at cabinet shops, usually have no idea how to set them up correctly. If they are sharp, and you take small cuts with each pass, you wont get tearout. ****, ive machined up some killer quilt without tearout, and if any grain is gunna tear, its flame or quilt. I agree. I used to work as a cabinetmaker as well and had similar experiences. On a decently setup machine I have had good success with a jointer when I had one available. What I use now and have for years is a nice handplane. I use it to plane all my gluing surfaces as well as using it to join acoustic tops and backs. Get the blade razor sharp and you can plane quilt, flame, end grain, or whatever and it will alwys come out smooth and polished looking and ready to glue. Besides they are so nice to use when set up properly. If you want to go the hand plane route then get a Lie Nielsen or something of similar quality. Also low angle planes are the best for figured woods. And learn how to get a plane blade razor sharp. A sander or jointer can work well without being perfectly tuned. A handplane cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 i find it easy to use this wierd clamp system i got, i made sure the pieces of wood that i got where the same height, rubbed glue on the sides, then put them together, then i took this nylon rope thingy (similiar to the stuff cheap straps are made of, but stronger), with edge things on them put the four corner things on the corners and then using this crank mechanism, tightened the whole thing, glued together like a rock and its easy to move the wood when its slipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 This is becoming a very interesting thread.. lol.. I'm actually learning something, which is the reason I keep coming back, just hoping something new will happen. Anyway, I totally agree with all of you about Jointers, they are great tools but like Rhoads said, only if they are adjusted correctly. I don't have a clue if those guys know how to set up a jointer correctly or not, but I do know they only use the big sander nowdays. I've had mixed results with a jointer myself, when everything is set up correctly, blades are level, etc.. and you make small cuts as Rhoads suggested... it's almost too easy.. lol But if you try to use a jointer that isn't sturdy and the guide fence is flimsy and the blades aren't set up correctly, then it can be a total nightmare. I would love to be able to use a handplane like Myka suggests, but I'm kinda scared I'd never be able to use it as good as I need to. It would be nice though to be able to do it by hand, just for the learning experience if for nothing else. Anyway I think that you'd need a magnetic jointer set jig to really set up a jointer to cut correctly. Something like this device. Did you use something similar Rhoads to set up the jointer you was talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 i find it easy to use this wierd clamp system i got, i made sure the pieces of wood that i got where the same height, rubbed glue on the sides, then put them together, then i took this nylon rope thingy (similiar to the stuff cheap straps are made of, but stronger), with edge things on them put the four corner things on the corners and then using this crank mechanism, tightened the whole thing, glued together like a rock and its easy to move the wood when its slipping yeah that sounds great...anyway...you need to have the surfaces jointed properly..."squeezing" the crap out of it will force too much of the glue out,causing a dry joint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 i find it easy to use this wierd clamp system i got, i made sure the pieces of wood that i got where the same height, rubbed glue on the sides, then put them together, then i took this nylon rope thingy (similiar to the stuff cheap straps are made of, but stronger), with edge things on them put the four corner things on the corners and then using this crank mechanism, tightened the whole thing, glued together like a rock and its easy to move the wood when its slipping yeah that sounds great...anyway...you need to have the surfaces jointed properly..."squeezing" the crap out of it will force too much of the glue out,causing a dry joint exactly.. you need to have the edges as true as you can get them before gluing is even done. Clamping down the wood that hard would not leave you with much glue to hold it together with. Maybe I misunderstood his post but it sounds like he's saying just clamp it down harder will leave you with a nice glue joint even if the edges aren't exact. I've never found that to be true with 1 3/4" hardwood. Either that or I'm not using strong enough clamps.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 no its just thankfully theyt where machined properly at the start, and i was answering the orignal post about clamping not your conversation on jointing, actually i was just saying some random thing, and that you dont need 50 dollars worth of clamps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 no its just thankfully theyt where machined properly at the start, and i was answering the orignal post about clamping not your conversation on jointing, actually i was just saying some random thing, and that you dont need 50 dollars worth of clamps cool.that clears it right up...thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 i cant tell, was that sarcastic... its hard to tell over the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 No he's serious because it cleared it up for me also.. I thought you was telling us that you didn't worry about the edges so much since you could just clamp it real hard and end up with a perfect joint, which in my experience won't work.. I know cause I've tried.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Did you use something similar Rhoads to set up the jointer you was talking about? No. I used a straight edge (engineers ruler). Does the same job, just not as efficiently as the device you showed. The thing about Aussie cabinetmakers, is that most of them think they are saving money by not spending cash to get the correct tools, but then they will happily employ more people to make up for inefficiency. But, thats a thread for the rant section... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Jabsco Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I just found out my neighbour has a jointer!! thank god, no more weird table saw jigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Yeah, jointers are tricky to set up right. Well, let me say that again... the monkeys that normally work at cabinet shops, usually have no idea how to set them up correctly. If they are sharp, and you take small cuts with each pass, you wont get tearout. ****, ive machined up some killer quilt without tearout, and if any grain is gunna tear, its flame or quilt. I've also found that he feeding speed affects tearout aswell, feeding to fast leads to chatter and tearout, if you go really slow and take reallly shallow passes you don't do as much damage to the blades vs deep pases, and your wood comes out really smooth where as feeding fast you get those little ripples in the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Did you use something similar Rhoads to set up the jointer you was talking about? No. I used a straight edge (engineers ruler). Does the same job, just not as efficiently as the device you showed. The thing about Aussie cabinetmakers, is that most of them think they are saving money by not spending cash to get the correct tools, but then they will happily employ more people to make up for inefficiency. But, thats a thread for the rant section... haha... We'll I guess they wanted to keep you guys on your toes. From my experience, most companies do that crazy stuff, instead of buying what is needed to get a job done quickly, they'd rather you spend way more time, which in effect in the long run they could have came out ahead if they'd just buy what was needed instead of paying wasted hours of labor you had to put into a job to get it done. lol.. If that makes sense.. But I guess it can't be all bad, at least now you can do what most people can't, get a jointer blades level with just a straightedge. I would probably never be able to do that. Krazy D.. good tips, I'll keep those in mind the next time I use a jointer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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