Custom Solid Body Wyvern Guitar

[MegaData]

[specs edited: October 21st, 2005]

Fingerboard:Ebony (Diospyros Ebenum)

Fingerboard Dimensions: 20" x 2 1/2" x 1/4"

Inlay Style :Chevron, Foil or Label, Script/Anglo Saxon Runes

Inlay Media:Malachite/Azurite/Pearl

*blue specifications are subject to change

*green specifications are not likely to change

Body Wood: American Butternut (Juglans Cinerea) aka Butternut, American White Walnut, Grey Walnut, Lemon Walnut, Oil-bean-nut, Oilnut

Body Dimensions: 22" x 13" x 1 3/4"

Body Shape: Solid Body Custom Wyvern

Neck Wood: Black Walnut (Juglans Nigra) aka American Walnut

Neck Dimensions: 29" x 5 1/2" x 1 to 3"

Headstock: Angled Custom Wyvern Skull

Neck Style: Bolt-on

Neck Radius: 12 inch

Fret Scale : 25.5 inch

Fret Number: 24

Hardware : Copper/Gold

Tuner Type: Barrel Knobs

Pickups : 2 Humbuckers

Bridge Type: Floyd Rose

Controls: 3 way toggle, 2 volume, 1 tone

The Photoshop Design and plywood Mock-Up are displayed on my website, Zentanyx Starfighter Elite, in the Studio section. My profile located at http://megadata.gfxartist.com contains recent project updates.

Edited October 21, 2005 by MegaData

[DannoG]

Cedar is very soft. I would consider using something like Alder, at least for the back.

[litchfield]

A cedar body for an electric scares me.

[MegaData]

I read that Cedar is very light weight but has a very rigid cell structure and my guitar instructor's advise was to make it as light as possible... if Basswood and Swamp Ash can be used, wouldn't Cedar be an improvement?

[DannoG]

Acoustically cedar is great, but it is so soft that you either be damaging the guitar in normal handling or need to put some heavy-duty finish on which would harm the tone and/or make it look not so good or require a serious pro setup for finishing

[MegaData]

I do appretiate the prompt feedback. Thanks.

Now, I know Cedar is used more in Acoustics. However, Alder is more dense than Swamp Ash and Basswood, in that order, right? Does Cedar fall inbetween Alder and Swamp Ash, or not? What is it's relation to other wood?

Nobody has a problem with Walnut for the neck?

If people know good places to purchase wood, I'm looking. ; )

[lovekraft]

Cedar is a softwood, while both basswood and ash are hardwoods. Ellie Erickson (asst. sysop over at MIMF) has made solid bodies out of cedar, redwood, and old growth pine - her general comments were that they're all a bit soft, and quirky to finish. Since your wyvern design is going to require a great deal of finishing anyhow to bring out all that detail, why not use a proven wood like poplar or alder? It sure will be a lot easier to paint, and the sound is well documented. If it's too heavy, you could chamber the body.

I don't know anything about walnut for a neck - I know Gibson made some solid bodies out of it that sounded better than OK.

[MegaData]

No way. Basswood is EXTREMELY soft. I read that, "There's a good chance a Floyd Rose Tremolo would eventually pull out of a Basswood body." That's the type of wood I learned to carve on in high school. I know for a fact that's a softwood and it is not suitable for my project.

Here's a little on that topic from the magazine I'm using as a reference for most of my design. (Guitar Player, February 1991) "...a lot of players -- especially metallists -- have gone in the opposite direction. Ultra light woods such as Swamp Ash and Basswood are happening in a big way. One theory in support of this holds that, instead of maximizing string vibration, an electric body should dampen it, so that the pickups have minimal interaction with the body and can pick up pure string tone."

I did not find much information on Cedar, except what I wrote earlier, but if these other Ultra Light woods are used, I think Cedar is an improvement over them. I've been looking into this wood possibility for a while and can't find any information to come right out and say not to use it. I'd like to know if anyone has any solid argument against it. As I said, I could not find much information on Cedar as a body choice. I would still welcome any negative or positive comments about the choice.

[Setch]

No way. Basswood is EXTREMELY soft. I read that, "There's a good chance a Floyd Rose Tremolo would eventually pull out of a Basswood body." That's the type of wood I learned to carve on in high school. I know for a fact that's a softwood and it is not suitable for my project.

No, basswood is a hardwood. It may be a 'soft' hardwood, but it is still a hardwood.

Here's a little on that topic from the magazine I'm using as a reference for most of my design. (Guitar Player, February 1991) "...a lot of players -- especially metallists -- have gone in the opposite direction. Ultra light woods such as Swamp Ash and Basswood are happening in a big way. One theory in support of this holds that, instead of maximizing string vibration, an electric body should dampen it, so that the pickups have minimal interaction with the body and can pick up pure string tone."

I did not find much information on Cedar, except what I wrote earlier, but if these other Ultra Light woods are used, I think Cedar is an improvement over them. I've been looking into this wood possibility for a while and can't find any information to come right out and say not to use it. I'd like to know if anyone has any solid argument against it. As I said, I could not find much information on Cedar as a body choice. I would still welcome any negative or positive comments about the choice.

It's extremely soft (I belive somebody mentioned this?) and will ding at the drop of a hat. Why do you think it will be an improvement over basswood? You won't find much information regarding it's use in solidbodies because it isn't used.

Why?

Too soft.

Accoustic builders who use WR Cedar for guitar sound boards leave it thicker, brace it more heavily, and take extra care handing it during construction because it is so soft.

You could try using Spruce, or maybe Cedro - which is a kind of Cypruss, and apparently looks and sounds like Mahogany but is much lighter.

[westhemann]

I know for a fact that's a softwood

hardwood

i prefer alder to just about anything,,,,and it is much easier than cedar to find in the proper sizes

[daveq]

Wait, why would anyone think that a Floyd couldn't be used with basswood? Aren't most JEM's made of basswood? Aren't most Ibanez RG's also made of basswood?

One theory in support of this holds that, instead of maximizing string vibration, an electric body should dampen it, so that the pickups have minimal interaction with the body and can pick up pure string tone.

I'm interested in the comment about the body needing to dampen the string vibration. Do you have more text from that article? Maybe they were talking about the properties of the wood that dampen certain frequencies - but dampen the entire string vibration? Something sounds odd about that.

Anyway, I like the copper/gold choice you made. I've been searching for a copper floyd for a while. No luck yet. Good luck - I hope it turns out great.

[Black Mariah]

IIRC, cedro is a type of cedar. I may be wrong. I've heard conflicting statements on that one.

The new Gibson Melody Makers are made of Spanish cedar. The few at the local GC don't seem worse for wear.

[Black Mariah]

Wait, why would anyone think that a Floyd couldn't be used with basswood? Aren't most JEM's made of basswood? Aren't most Ibanez RG's also made of basswood?

One theory in support of this holds that, instead of maximizing string vibration, an electric body should dampen it, so that the pickups have minimal interaction with the body and can pick up pure string tone.

I'm interested in the comment about the body needing to dampen the string vibration. Do you have more text from that article? Maybe they were talking about the properties of the wood that dampen certain frequencies - but dampen the entire string vibration? Something sounds odd about that.

Anyway, I like the copper/gold choice you made. I've been searching for a copper floyd for a while. No luck yet. Good luck - I hope it turns out great.

Under heavy trem use and abuse, the holes that the studs are in may elongate if the wood in that area is sufficiently soft. Basswood and other soft woods are more prone to this, but the rate that it occurs at is still way freaking low.

The piece he quoted made no sense whatsoever, so I'll explain it a bit better. In theory, since an electric guitar is just the string/pickup interaction at its core, then that's all you should hear. The body should not come into tonal play at all. But it doesn't work like that, because electric guitars don't work like that. A cement guitar would sound like ass.

[Dragyn]

For what it is worth I am working on a similar concept of a dragon/wyrven guitar and decided to use flame maple and carve it out.

Not sure where you are located, but I secured my pieces from Gilmer Wood;

www.gilmerwood.com

Dragyn

[MegaData]

Great comments guys. Thanks.

Okay, I'm looking up hardwood and softwoods and came up with BALSA wood as a hardwood. I don't think that that classification really has anything to do with it's use for the body of a guitar. The article I quoted is about weight of the wood effecting tone. I guess hard and soft statements by me should be looked at from a weight perspective, since I misinterpreted what hard and softwood meant.

The article says to "think twice about using basswood with a Floyd." That's the next text from the article requested above. If you want the beginning of the paragraph I quoted, it goes like this: "In ascending order of heaviness, the most commonly used body woods line up something like this: swamp ash, basswood, alder, mahogany, maple, and regular ash. Alder was used for a lot of mid-'60s Strats. In the '70s, heavy woods such as mahogany, maple, and ash were the rage. Today..." See above.

What I meant to ask above was, doesn't Cedar fall inbetween Basswood and Alder in the ascending order of heaviness?

If two people here posted that Cedar has been used for other guitars, I am still considering it a possibility.

You can find some gold Floyds on eBay, where I found mine. It's not as good as the expensive black one I found for my B.C. Rich, but you get what you pay for usually and it does look great with a professional finnish.

Thanks for the website suggestion...

[Jehle]

Not sure where you are located, but I secured my pieces from Gilmer Wood;

www.gilmerwood.com

glimerwood is a fantastic source.

Legend has it that www.kollguitars.com uses them as well.

[MegaData]

Apparently, hardwood and softwood classifications have to do with plant reproduction. This is what I've found.

[Jehle]

Apparently, hardwood and softwood classifications have to do with plant reproduction. This is what I've found.

Interesting to see that Balsa in considered a hardwood. I would not want to dare making a balsa guitar.

[Primal]

Apparently Gibson used balsa in some of their LPs. I can't remember what they used it for or when. There was a big discussion about it on MIMF.

[daveq]

Thanks for passing on more of that article. I haven't built one myself out of basswood yet (I plan to soon) but I have owned an RG550 for many, many years and it's had it's share of abuse with the trem bar. I've inspected it carefully since I've been building and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the trem posts/bushings. Zero.

I don't know if I'd trust that statement or not. Has anyone here had a problem with their basswood guitars w/ trems? Seems strange that Ibanez would use it for so many years if it really had problems. Especially on the JEM's where you know that bar is going to get a workout. Very strange.

Could it be that he was referring to the old screw posts (not the bushing type of installation)? In that case, it wouldn't really be the fault of the wood but softer woods would be more prone to loosening up.

Sorry to drag this up again but like I said - I was planning on building one with basswood soon and want to know if there's any real reason to be concerened.

[MegaData]

Balsa wood is alot like plastic packing peanuts, in my opinion.

I just read that Spanish Cedar is an exotic hardwood and is neither Spanish or Cedar. I guess I've been talking about the wrong wood... that little bit of information made up my mind. I'm not going with Cedar if Spanish Cedar has the common names of Cedro and Cedar without being Cedar. That's deceptive to me.

I'll take the suggestion for Alder and look into that. [editing first post]

Which species of Walnut (Black, White and Butternut) would be best for the neck?

[MegaData]

daveq, here's more on that article...

"Basswood is extremely soft," cautions Schecter's Bill Ricketts, "so there's a good chance the Floyd will eventually pull out of the body. We put anchors in the body to make sure that neither the bridge nor the neck is going to fly out of that super-soft wood." Apart from this though, feel free to experiment...

I don't think a basswood body's something that can't be done. They were just pointing out that it is something to be concerned with in the design stage.

[lovekraft]

These may help:

• Hardwoods of North America, a General Technical Report from the US Forest Service
  
• Machining and Related Characteristics of United States Hardwoods
  

[Black Mariah]

I just read that Spanish Cedar is an exotic hardwood and is neither Spanish or Cedar. I guess I've been talking about the wrong wood... that little bit of information made up my mind. I'm not going with Cedar if Spanish Cedar has the common names of Cedro and Cedar without being Cedar. That's deceptive to me.

A couple of Spanish cedar links:

http://www.thewoodbox.com/data/wood/spcedarinfo.htm

http://www.tropilab.com/cedrela.html

Apparently it gets its name because it smells like cedar. Also, it's considered the premier wood for humidors. Interesting to know.

[fryovanni]

Gilmer is a great source. I am in portland and have purchased from them many times. Nice people, very knowledgable and have great stock. Plus they let me hand pick pieces from there stock.

If you are in the portland area I would also recommend Crosscut Hardwoods. They have a huge stock and you can find some great material. I purchased a great 9'x8" piece of 8/4 Quilted Maple (Popcorn size quilt throughout)from them a few months ago. They carry just about anything you could want. The only thing you can't find there is thin figured tops.

Best luck with your project!!!