drezdin Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I was hoping that about this time I would be posting pictures my first guitar and it would be awesome. I would be proud and it would look as killer as Drak's or Myka's guitars. But that didn't happen. So now I'm writing this post for people like me....the ones who suck and screw up and fail. I may not post any pictures of this guitar at all. In a fit of anger I took it to the bandsaw and created my first WOD victim. So instead of posting pics of all the cool details of my first guitar, I will tell you everything I did wrong and the things that came out right. Lets start by going over my woodworking experience. It's just about zero. I've put together a guitar from warmoth parts and I built my computer desk. I've been reading this site and tutorials for about a year and read several guitar building books. Here were my guitar details. 7 string fretless guitar Original body design 2 piece korina body maple top 1 pice korina neck maple headstock overlay 10 degree headstock angle set neck stabalized macascar ebony fretboard tom bridge string through body Now for the bad. I had a guide on the bandsaw when I cut the headstock angle. It caused the surface of the headstock to be cut at an angle. When I glued the top on I thought I had enough clamps. But everyone is right... you never have enough clamps. Ended up with a bad glue joint. I didn't plan my neck joint enough and carved too much of the neck before glueing it in. Instead of going of the center line when laying out the bridge post. I try eyeballing it with some strings roughly in place. I ended up with the post holes drilled in the wrong place. I screwed up the string ferrules....way way off. I got countless dings in the neck and body just from being clumbsy when moving it around. Now with each of these mistakes it fixed them and moved on..not wanting to give up even though they looked pretty awful. Now with all these errors and my first guitar a complete failure I think I should probably give up on building, but some things did go right. And those few things that did go right felt so damn good that I can stop thinking about trying again. So, I'm trying to look on the bright side and take a little pride in the things that came out ok. These things will probably seem silly to some people here, but to me were big steps. With that said Here was the good. I drew complete plans for the entire guitar which was an original design. I got a really good glue joint on the 2 piece body and I leveled it with handplanes. I had never used a handplane before. I made a pretty good neck pocket...used the Myka jig. I carved a neck from a piece of wood. Again this probably is silly to some, but it was scary to me and I was just amazed that I was able to do it. I made the neck to the exact size I was trying for and drilled the tuner holes in the right spots I made a jig for 7 string pickup routing. I routed the pickup cavities pretty well. So should I give up...probably. I will probably never build a guitar as nice as some of the people on this board. But those little baby steps made me feel good and the whole reason I wanted to build was to create guitars just for me. Guitars that no one else would want to build with strange shapes and electronics. I guess I lost the point of this post along the way, but I just wanted to let people know that if they screw up and fail, they are not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Building your first guitar is an experiment and a learning process. Nothing is wrong with striving for perfection but it's helpful to expect failure. Failure isn't a bad thing unless you give up. If you never fail, how can you learn? What's trial without error? Think through jigs and templates, measure twice, do lots of drawing and planning and your next guitar will be wonderful in comparison, an you'll only get better. If you don't have at least the Hiscck book, get it. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Dude look at the list of things you screwed up, things you won't likely screw up again, because now you know. You either learned what you should have done, or you know what to practice before you committ to good wood again. You've learned to much to give up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Don't give up. Take a breath and try again. Althought two things jump out at me from your post: 1) I don't know how others do it, but to me, a bandsaw is not a precision tool and probably shouldn't be used to make what is supposed to be a precision cut like the headstock angle. 2) I'd never eye-ball one of the most important elements of an electric guitar: the bridge posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_the_damned Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I don't think I'll ever build guitars as nice as I've seen on these boards. but I doubt I'll stop building them! I enjoy it and it seems you have to! none of the guitars I've built (or half built) are perfect by a long shot (the little dings you mention being one problem) but I try and think of them as 'character' and if its a guitar that's going to be used it WILL get dings. no matter what. so it wont hurt to have a few to start with! sounds like things didn't go THAT wrong. and you've noted the things you did do wrong and I'm sure you wont do them agian because of it. so when is guitar number 2 being made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Dude, don't give up! I made a lot of those kind of mistakes on my first scratch-build...luckily it was a travel guitar, which is getting more bashed with each trip, but I didn't spend too much on raw materials to make it go. Take a look at this thread (click here), 4th post....THOSE are some ugly holes, an aborted attempt to mount tuners on the body. It still looks like that! Point is...no matter how much things get screwed up, there's always a way to press on and keep going, if nothing else to learn and make all the mistakes right up until the finished product is done. Each axe will get better and better...my second scratch-build tied for GOTM! If you're enjoying the process, then by all means don't stop! You haven't even got to the finishing part yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespresence Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 How well did it go the first time you had sex? Did you give up or keep trying until you got it right? I'm still trying to get it right but you better believe I am enjoying the process along the way!! Same goes for building guitars or cars or anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Man, those mistakes aren't that bad. Really, my first guitar I built with a friend when I was 11. We were totally broke, didn't have any resources like PG or MIMF, and made everything oursleves. The tuning keys were nuts and bolts (yes that means a two person tuning operation), the bridge was a series of 6 finish nails for the ball ends of the strings over a screw with the head sawn off. And the neck had that square carve we all know and love (and a fingerboard from an old acoustic that someone threw in the trash where it surely belonged). The pickups were made from nails and wood with wire from an old radio transformer. The guitar sounded like dirt and played really, really bad, not to mention it didn't stay in tune. We were so young and excited we didn't even notice or care and kept on building anyway. The guitars you see on my website are the result of having made hundreds of mistakes and learning from. I wouldn't give up if you are this far along on your first guitar. You are light years ahead of where I was with my first. Keep building, you will get better with each guitar. I am still learning as I am sure that everyone who posts here is. It's all part of trying to master your craft. ~David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottom of the world Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 How well did it go the first time you had sex? Did you give up or keep trying until you got it right? I'm still trying to get it right but you better believe I am enjoying the process along the way!! Same goes for building guitars or cars or anything else. ← My first guitar is probably the ugliest POS you ever seen, all i knew was the concept of scale lenght and i made a lot of mistakes, but you know what? That POS is over my lap right now. I'm building a second bass for my brother and i've improved because i didn't gave up. Please never forget your mistakes and keep trying . Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 1) I don't know how others do it, but to me, a bandsaw is not a precision tool and probably shouldn't be used to make what is supposed to be a precision cut like the headstock angle. A properly setup bandsaw can be a precision tool, have you heard of re-sawing? I've always cut my headstock angles on my bandsaw, then smoothen out the faces on a stationary beltsander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drezdin Posted June 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 1) I don't know how others do it, but to me, a bandsaw is not a precision tool and probably shouldn't be used to make what is supposed to be a precision cut like the headstock angle. A properly setup bandsaw can be a precision tool, have you heard of re-sawing? I've always cut my headstock angles on my bandsaw, then smoothen out the faces on a stationary beltsander. ← That was my plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Good for you for relizing and admitting you made mistakes. That's part of growing and developing your skills. If you never relize, admit to, or just plain IGNORE your mistakes, you will probably end up having a thread like THIS started about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Stop feeling sorry for yourself. The only REAL BAD mistake I think you made was using all that good Korina on your first attempt. Now put the computer to sleep, and build another one. This time SLOW DOWN!!!! think everything through TWICE!!! if something seems sketchy (Like the bandsaw incident) Get back here and ask some questions. Hell there are a dozen ways of doing something and the experienced builders here probably know most of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 It sounds to me like the only problem you have is in your head, your physical skills actually sound above average to me. Your expectations are so far distanced from reality that you have set yourself up for failure no matter how good your first attempt was (which sounds pretty good to me) It's like you expected to win the Indy 500 the first time you got behind the wheel of an automobile, is that a realistic expectatation? I think not. Then you're going to beat yourself up when you can't even get onto the track, and wonder why... Maybe you can use this lesson to learn a valuable life skill. I have used guitar building to help me realize things about myself that needed work, like my impatience with myself (hurrying up finishes only to ruin them over and over, trying to shoot finishes when it's almost freezing cold outside...) amongst other things. My own impatience has double-crossed me time and time again. Why do you think I completely give guitar building up in the winter now? I learned my lesson, and I enjoy it much more now. So leave the pity parade behind, toughen yourself up, stop crying in your beer, get up and dust yourself off, take a calculating look at what you did, and try it again, or give it up, your choice. Everyone here will tell you without exception that their first guitar probably looked like crap, and that is a realistic expectation, so why should your guitar be any different than ours were? Join the club and try it again. PS, if guitar building was so easy that you could build some gorgeous guitar right out of the gate, then it really wouldn't be worth the time would it? Anything that easy to achieve in life really isn't worth the time. I think you might now be realizing that there is an art and skills and craft to building a fine guitar, and it takes time, persistence, and a certain focus to achieve those things, and THAT'S what makes it all worth it. In this day of MTV-driven instant gratification, people forget that there is an actual enjoyment in the learning process. They just want the goods and that's it, and there is no real joy in just instantly getting what you want all the time. Welcome to The Real World, glad to have you aboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Everyone here will tell you without exception that their first guitar probably looked like crap, and that is a realistic expectation, so why should your guitar be any different than ours were? truer words were never ...ummm...typed? i thought my first guitar was pretty good...but looking at it now..well,i can't even stand to look at it.waste of a carvin neck through blank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 (edited) Well, I guess I'm an exception. My first "from scratch" guitar came out rather well. Its one of the best guitars I've ever played, real fast neck, big output and sustains until the cows come home. I kept the finish basic for a first guitar, just natural mahogany with poly clearcoat. But then again, I built it when I was 42 yrs. old (3 yrs ago) and I could already use most any hand/power tool with proficiency. I also have a long history of repair and rebuilding experience. But I realized that I still have a lot to learn where some aspects of guitar building are concerned. I have to admit I got lucky in a few areas of building my first. But all that is irrelavent to your situation. You just need some practice at how to make things work to your best advantage. Be diligent in care and maintenance of your tools, keep blades sharp, and TRIPLE CHECK EVERYTHING. Eyeballing measurements is taking chances. If you have ANY doubts then take a step back and find the source of those sneaky suspicions. When I get that feeling I follow my instincts and am usually justified. If you've never used a router, drill/press, bandsaw, etc. etc. before then practice on scrap wood until you feel competent enough to work on your project. There are some very basic tools that I can't do without, a straightedge, calipers and carpenter's square come to mind. When I am forming body and neck I am constantly using those 3 items to guide me through the process. A surface may look flat until you lay that 'ol straightedge down. A bad glue joint means that components weren't test fitted beforehand. That means employing all the clamps, blocks etc. you plan to use followed by careful inspection of all joint areas. And when you add the glue don't change anything! And lastly, I've seen plenty room for error where the order of the various steps are concerned. For example, one of the last things I do to a neck is carve the back. Its SO much easier to drill, fret, clamp etc. etc. on a flat, straight block of wood. So you just keep on keepin' on, take your time. We're all rooting for ya on the next go! Edited June 3, 2005 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Well, I guess I'm an exception. My first "from scratch" guitar came out rather well. Its one of the best guitars I've ever played, real fast neck, big output and sustains until the cows come home. well...my first played and sounded great...but it looks like total crap.cheesy headstock,sloppy cavities,went the easy way out on the finish with that crap called tung oil(don't care what anyone says...oil finishes blow chunks...they don't last and the "tonal superiority" is all complete B.S.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Tru Oil is way nice... And what Drak said rings true....if was easy, everyone would be doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitone Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 well...my first played and sounded great...but it looks like total crap. I was the opposite. My first looks awesome, but is way to heavy, won't stay in tune and I think I was off on the scale. I just made sure that I paid more attention to those issues on my second guitar. It plays awesome and even made GOTM. I want to know if Myka still has his first guitar! It's sounded pretty interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 (edited) (don't care what anyone says...oil finishes blow chunks...they don't last and the "tonal superiority" is all complete B.S.) Regular tung oil, yes, it's thin and it just seeps in, but not polimerized oils, like Tru Oil. That stuff can build fairly thick and buff out to a nice shine if you know what you're doing. I believe Toddler's guitar that just won GOTM is Tru Oiled. Edited June 3, 2005 by M_A_T_T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 well...my first played and sounded great...but it looks like total crap. I was the opposite. My first looks awesome, but is way to heavy, won't stay in tune and I think I was off on the scale. I just made sure that I paid more attention to those issues on my second guitar. It plays awesome and even made GOTM. I want to know if Myka still has his first guitar! It's sounded pretty interesting. ← My first was the opposite also. It looked fine (apart from the all too common screwed up ferrule holes in the back ) But it played like crap due too the worst fret job I've ever seen and the fact the the neck carve was really fat. Not good for my tiny hands. But I've fixed all those problems. I put on a new fingerboard, which means new fret-job which is much better than any factory jon I personally have seen. I also redid the the carve and now it's skinny like a wizzard only a v profile, very comfy. I also refinished it and fixed the ferrule holes just for the heck of it. It was prety bad when I first built it but now it's a guitar that I'm auccually proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 (don't care what anyone says...oil finishes blow chunks...they don't last and the "tonal superiority" is all complete B.S.) Regular tung oil, yes, it's thin and it just seeps in, but not polimerized oils, like Tru Oil. That stuff can build fairly thick and buff out to a nice shine if you know what you're doing. I believe Toddler's guitar that just won GOTM is Tru Oiled. ← like i said.i don't care what anyone says.i have experience with true oil,tung oil,boiled lindseed oil,shellac,rattlecan nitro and rattlecan polyeurethane...and all of the oil finishes,including tru oil,are very poor in the durability department. and i won't argue with you about it.i know what i know...and everyone just wants to love it because it is easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I want to know if Myka still has his first guitar! It's sounded pretty interesting. ← No but I wish I did although pictures of that thing would just kill my reputation! We were so broke at the time we salvaged whatever we could from our guitars before we started the next one. I wish I had the foresight to keep a few of those. They would be very intersting to see now. I built all sorts of crazy stuff too like 24 string sitar electrics and wierd hollowbodies. I really wish I kept one of those. I figured I would always have time to build more. I should have at least photographed them but it never occured to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I think it's pretty much beyond arguing that oil and shellac finishes are less durable than nitros or poly. Not many would argue that oil is as durable, but some would argue that on certain guitars, they can be the right finish and they're not AS soft as the names might imply. You see "oil finish" and an amateur like me first imagines literally that the wood is just oiled like with normal oil. <chuckle> It's been good hearing from other people that certain other finishes can be built up to a certain level of hardness and durability. I'd like to do a French polish on a guitar, but I have no illusions that it'd be as durable as a lacquer. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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