Taking A Break

[LGM Guitars]

Well, I'm taking a break from the forum, not leaving permanently, just taking a break. I am just frustrated with reading posts still from people offering advice when they obviously don't have a clue about things. I've seen so many people talk the talk, but don't walk the walk on here lately, I'm just tired of it. So rather than turn into an asshole on the forum, I'm going to walk away for a while. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, and the only reason I'm posting at all is so nobody wonders where I've dissappeared to (if anyone would really wonder anyway )

So, have fun guys, just remember, when you ask a question, take the responses with a grain of salt, there seems to be a lot of self proclaimed experts on here lately who, even if their methods work, will be causing you far more work and hassle than necessary, and in some cases, will be detrimental or damaging to your instrument, or financially pointless. Pay attention to the guys you know are capable of this trade and listen to their advice. Remember, post count doesn't mean anything, lots of posts just means somebody likes to type, knowledge is not gained through theory or assumption, it's gained through experience, trial and error, and listening to those who can teach. There is nothing to be gained from not asking questions, but bad advice is just as bad as not asking the question in the first place so be careful.

Take care

Jeremy

[feylya]

Remember, post count doesn't mean anything,

Yup, guilty.

Don't forget to come back Jeremy!

[Pr3Va1L]

maybe it's just me, but i think offering help is far more helpful than telling them to use the search engine...

the try to help at least...

[GregP]

When I give advice, unless it's something mundane that I DO feel sufficiently experienced to answer, I always qualify my experience level each and every time. I hope other users decide to start doing the same thing, too. I do this particularly BECAUSE of LGM's very point-- I have a high post count because I do like to type, and for reasons sometimes beyond my control I go weeks between making even small progress on my first and only project. In the meantime, I'm visiting the forum, so my post count IS disproportionately high to my experience level.

One thing to note, though, is that in order to get expert opinions, they actually have to respond to your thread. I've been lucky enough to have many (though not all) experts respond to my many questions, but sometimes one or two more expert opinions wouldn't hurt. There have been a few times I've just gone ahead and done things the way I figured they should be done because I got no 'expert' response.

In the absence of an 'expert' response, it's still useful to bounce ideas back and forth between people of a similar level to you. We can't always wait for the 'pros' to hold our hands, after all. I know that's not Jeremy's point, though-- he's more 'upset' about people passing themselves off as something they're not, whether intentional or not.

Greg

[GodBlessTexas]

I must have missed something. Jeremy, I've greatly enjoyed reading your posts and your tutorials in the finishing area. I hope your absence is only a short one.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

/Just another non-builder with a day job as a consultant and a passion for guitars and knowledge.

[bigdguitars]

I agree with jer 100%

will miss you.

[!!METAL MATT!!]

I'm taking a break from the forum, not leaving permanently, just taking a break

Man we all need a break sometime's!! take it easy and i'll see ya soon

!!METAL MATT!!

[haggardguy]

Lets hope this doesn't end up like the time my girlfriend suggested a "break"...

[Maiden69]

maybe it's just me, but i think offering help is far more helpful than telling them to use the search engine...

the try to help at least...

←

he is not refering at just "offering help" but a lot of people that hasn't show jack that they are capable of performing the trade, or just plain ignorant advise... there have been quite a few of those here, but I finaly learned to shut my mouth, I'm still learning, and i know that the more experinced are not to keen on taking bad advise too lightly! This is why Drak and Perry have gotten so much crap the last few weeks, for correcting people that were wrong.

I have turned into a "if I think you have been given wrong advise" post a reply to how I do it, or in the case of some other people here that I seen are taking this seriously I PM.

[TenderSurrender]

Remember, post count doesn't mean anything,

I am also guilty of that offence, however i do TRY and get it right for people and if im not 100% sure when i post a reply, i tell the person that... This way the orignal thread still gets a response which MAY help him/her then think of the correct way of doing it...

If we left it to the "pros" all the time, this forum would eventually come to a stand still...

But Jeremy you have posted some great threads... MANY great threads and i hope your vacation isnt to long

~~ Slain Angel ~~

[westhemann]

This is why Drak and Perry have gotten so much crap the last few weeks, for correcting people that were wrong.

sometimes if you merely offer a different way of doing things with the tools most of us have access to you get someone taking offense.

drak tried to explain his use of a scroll saw,someone took offense...i tried to explain how you can use a small thickness planer and a small jointer to more efficiently(with less waste) bring a board square on all sides and perfectly flat,and the guy who said it can't be done takes offense.

it is true that alot of the newer guys just don't want to take advice...they would rather try to prove they have superior logic,whether it is helpful or not.

sometimes you can't help but feel like you are wasting your time.at least there are a few here that can take advice...

[mledbetter]

it's the psychology of any large group. You have a few veterans that stick together, you have a medium sized group of folks that have been around a while and are still sympathetic to the newbies but have rapport with the veterans, and then you have the newbies that want to dream, challenge, innovate, etc. and that's ok by me.

Ask any college professor you'll hear the same story. Good professors are the ones that realize that these annoying freshmen are just like they were once, and without patient mentors, they can never reach the point where they have enough experience to gain true wisdom.

Same goes here. Every single one of you at some point was a newbie, wondering this, thinking that, screwing up stuff and maybe more interested in finding out the answer for yourself rather than have it fed to you, and yet you made it through just fine. The newbies here WILL do the same thing, it's expected, and getting feathers ruffled over it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Jeremy, you post excellent information and it all gets pinned immediately. Whether you feel like it or not people read that and will eventually apply it to their own practice. Maybe not the first time, but after they screw up they will go research what they did wrong and information from people like you will be what guides them back on the right track. That is a tremendous contribution. But you can't keep everyone from making mistakes and honestly, more is learned from mistakes than is learned from good advice. Hopefully you can find a way to not be so frustrated by that and take more pride in the fact that it's your information they will be coming to if and when they do screw up

And I don't put you in this lump, as you tend to stay out of the daily fray, but there have been several instances lately of flat out impatience and absolute irritation at newbies by the veteran class and honestly all that does is grow the very situation that is frustrating you to the point of leaving. If a newbie is afraid to ask a question because the result is "oh great, here we go again.. what an idiot" then they'll be much more likely to ask each other for advice because mediocre advice is more palatable then disdain and rejection from the wiser ones.

But honestly i don't think any of this is going to change. I'd love to be wrong but it's a sociological thing. This is just how people tend to act.

[bigdguitars]

healthy debate vs. incompetence.

[komodo]

sometimes if you merely offer a different way of doing things with the tools most of us have access to you get someone taking offense.

drak tried to explain his use of a scroll saw,someone took offense...i tried to explain how you can use a small thickness planer and a small jointer to more efficiently(with less waste) bring a board square on all sides and perfectly flat,and the guy who said it can't be done takes  offense.

it is true that alot of the newer guys just don't want to take advice...they would rather try to prove they have superior logic,whether it is helpful or not.

Westhemann-Please understand that I am not trying to start an argument, and I am not taking offense at alternate methods. What you describe CAN be done on piece of wood as thick as a guitar body that will not flex under the pressure of a planer cutter head. I was trying to offer advice to the other poster about dimensioning wood with a wood planer/jointer, and in most woodworking that doesn't work as the board flexes. Cutting wood to length first, does indeed save waste, but sometimes cutting to length too early can waste wood that could have otherwise been used (think of cutting a 9" wide mahogany plank that could have been ripped first to 6" and the ripped piece being used for a neck).

What I take offense at is gross assumptions and condescension. Just because somebody is relatively new to this forum, or doesn't have much GUITAR build experience, does not mean they do not have much woodworking experience or anything to offer. I personally will try to be more tolerant and to avoid anything other than guitar building discussions, as anything else seems to be extremely counter-productive to the reason these forums are here.

KOMODO

[mledbetter]

What you describe CAN be done on piece of wood as thick as a guitar body that will not flex under the pressure of a planer cutter head.

←

which is what everybody here generally runs through a planer. not small pieces for other types of wood projects. I don't see where the argument is here. Besides, bringing the argument into this thread is silly and only gives creed to the frustration that the more experienced folks here feel.

This is a matter of preference and you're shop preferences are different than probably most everyone here concerning a planer. The issue here is someone coming in and telling someone that they can glue glitter to a guitar body then clearcoat it for a cool metal flake finish. crap like that.

[frank falbo]

Yeah, you can comment on the essence of disagreements overall here, but don't bring the actual debate here, because here we're speaking in generalizations.

I have to agree that there is some "blind leading the blind" here, and usually it gets caught and remedied. I see a lot of posts where bad information gets parlaid into more bad information. Sometimes not only should the original poster use the search, but also those who offer answers!

I've found that the people who are looking for the advice are usually respectful of all the information given, while the "advisors" sometimes pit themselves against eachother. Although inconvenient, at least it fleshes out ideas. Its kind of funny when one of our resident "experts" gives a good answer to something, then some lightweights put unnecessary posts after it. As if they have 2 cents to add.

[westhemann]

sometimes if you merely offer a different way of doing things with the tools most of us have access to you get someone taking offense.

drak tried to explain his use of a scroll saw,someone took offense...i tried to explain how you can use a small thickness planer and a small jointer to more efficiently(with less waste) bring a board square on all sides and perfectly flat,and the guy who said it can't be done takes  offense.

it is true that alot of the newer guys just don't want to take advice...they would rather try to prove they have superior logic,whether it is helpful or not.

Westhemann-Please understand that I am not trying to start an argument, and I am not taking offense at alternate methods. What you describe CAN be done on piece of wood as thick as a guitar body that will not flex under the pressure of a planer cutter head. I was trying to offer advice to the other poster about dimensioning wood with a wood planer/jointer, and in most woodworking that doesn't work as the board flexes. Cutting wood to length first, does indeed save waste, but sometimes cutting to length too early can waste wood that could have otherwise been used (think of cutting a 9" wide mahogany plank that could have been ripped first to 6" and the ripped piece being used for a neck).

What I take offense at is gross assumptions and condescension. Just because somebody is relatively new to this forum, or doesn't have much GUITAR build experience, does not mean they do not have much woodworking experience or anything to offer. I personally will try to be more tolerant and to avoid anything other than guitar building discussions, as anything else seems to be extremely counter-productive to the reason these forums are here.

KOMODO

←

sure thing.no problem.we all get worked up from time to time...only thing that bothered me was first,that you said it would result in an unsatisfactory flatness and second,when i explained how i do it to achieve great results,you seemed to misconstrue my points into an attack.i never said your way does not work,i only said that it can be done a different way with smaller machines in a manner which sometimes can result in less waste wood.

anyway,let's move on,shall we?i hold no grudges or ill will,i only want it to be known that the method i reccomended is perfectly satisfactory,and ends with a perfectly flat,square piece of wood in guitar dimensions

[javacody]

I really miss Perry's bad advice picture. One picture is worth a thousand words.

When I give advice, I always present the original source of the info. If I've only read about something (and I read a lot), I state that.

I do see lots of people who just state something as being a hard and fast fact, and I often wonder where the hell they got it from.

What would help here is a FAQ or something. Aron's Stompbox forum has one, and its awesome.

Also, I look at what others have done when I decide whether or not to take their advice. This should be the first FAQ item. I see guys like Perry, Drak, and LGM, and I can tell they have a method that works for them. They are probably good people to listen to.

Then again, there are first timers who put out some really awesome work. They don't have chips on their shoulders or feel like they are owed something for having built a bunch of guitars. Honestly, they are easier to talk to usually. No offense to you long time builders.

Also, honestly, I've seen guys here who built lots of guitars that I wouldn't let a dog crap on. I hardly think that looking at post counts or the number of instruments count for crap. I look at the output of the builder. Also, how do you really know that a guitar someone submits a pic for was really built by them? This is the internet. Take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt until you KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE that it works for you.

The internet has been around for quite a while now, its time for people to wise up.

Anyway, LGM, you are allowing others to control you. Not a good thing. Have the cajones to do your thing and the rest of the world can kiss your guitar building arse. I don't believe that this forum is causing you this much heartache. I suspect you have other things going on in life and you are venting here. I hope things go better for you and I wish you peace.