Catalyst Urethane

[scottyd]

ok before some of you get too cocky i already did a search....... i got a quart of House of Kolor clear urethane that i was thinking of spraying my bass with, it takes a hardner and a reducer both of which are very harsh chemically ....so i was wondering has any one had any ill effects with the paint reacting with glue joints or causing wood to swell? thanks

Edited September 18, 2005 by scottyd

[westhemann]

that is what jeremy uses on his guitars last i heard...so i think the answer would be...go ahead

[scottyd]

that is what jeremy uses on his guitars last i heard...so i think the answer would be...go ahead

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i need a more definate answer.................i tried the House of Kolor but they dont have any info of wood simply because its an automotive company

Edited September 18, 2005 by scottyd

[Doc]

What you need to worry about first is the reaction of your body to the harsh chemicals.

Not being nasty, how much experience do you have with spraying?

Do you have a spray booth? What kind of breathing equipment do you have. If you spray this stuff in an improper (non-spray booth) environment you can get sick as a dog, and the long term effects are pretty disastrous.

This is not just over reaction. This stuff is nasty. It does produce a quick-cure hard shiney finish, but it has it's drawbacks like anything.

This is a product for professionals and not hobbiests. I won't use it and I'm a semi-retired professional. Not 'cause I don't know how, but because I am not set up to do it, and I just don't like stuff that's this environmentally unfriendly.

[scottyd]

What you need to worry about first is the reaction of your body to the harsh chemicals.

Not being nasty, how much experience do you have with spraying?

Do you have a spray booth? What kind of breathing equipment do you have. If you spray this stuff in an improper (non-spray booth) environment you can get sick as a dog, and the long term effects are pretty disastrous.

This is not just over reaction. This stuff is nasty. It does produce a quick-cure hard shiney finish, but it has it's drawbacks like anything.

This is a product for professionals and not hobbiests. I won't use it and I'm a semi-retired professional. Not 'cause I don't know how, but because I am not set up to do it, and I just don't like stuff that's this environmentally unfriendly.

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yeah im fully aware of the risks, and ive got plenty experience spraying, what the heck? you think just because it says newbie under my avater im stupid? pretty insulting.......I am fairly new to bass and guitar building, but automotive paint and body ive done for years....ive got adequate respiration and a spray booth.... sick as a dog is far an understatement, try irreversible nervous system and kydney damage.....but im sure you knew that, being a "semi retired professional" and all, the fact is i didnt ask about the effects it has on my body because I ALREADY KNOW THAT!!! Thank you for looking out for my "well being" but could someone please answer my orginal question please?

Edited September 18, 2005 by scottyd

[possum1284]

What you need to worry about first is the reaction of your body to the harsh chemicals.

Not being nasty, how much experience do you have with spraying?

Do you have a spray booth? What kind of breathing equipment do you have. If you spray this stuff in an improper (non-spray booth) environment you can get sick as a dog, and the long term effects are pretty disastrous.

This is not just over reaction. This stuff is nasty. It does produce a quick-cure hard shiney finish, but it has it's drawbacks like anything.

This is a product for professionals and not hobbiests. I won't use it and I'm a semi-retired professional. Not 'cause I don't know how, but because I am not set up to do it, and I just don't like stuff that's this environmentally unfriendly.

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yeah im fully aware of the risks, and ive got plenty experience spraying, what the heck? you think just because it says newbie under my avater im stupid? pretty insulting.......I am fairly new to bass and guitar building, but automotive paint and body ive done for years....ive got adequate respiration and a spray booth.... sick as a dog is far an understatement, try irreversible nervous system and kydney damage.....but im sure you knew that, being a "semi retired professional" and all, the fact is i didnt ask about the effects it has on my body because I ALREADY KNOW THAT!!! Thank you for looking out for my "well being" but could someone please answer my orginal question please?

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someones a little hostile.

[scottyd]

"someones a little hostile."

sorry if it came across that way but it always seems like someone on here has to try and one up on someone else..........

[Devon Headen]

If you take warning you about health risks as egotism something's not quite right.

You'll be fine. I've never personally used it, but I've seen guys that use the equivalent of that stuff's work, and there's no problem with the wood.

[Doc]

If you don't want advice I'd suggest you don't ask for it. You didn't give anyone here a clue as to your setup or experience and many of the other newbies who post here jump into stuff the is dangerous without your vast experience. I personally have no feeling left in the first part of my fingers, due to a lack of repect for the stuff I've worked with for so long. I'm just trying to save some of you guys the learning curve.

That said, I am not aware of any difficulties with crossreaction with urethane and properly cured PVA or aliphatic resin glues. I'd be hesitant to use it over hide glue.

The manufacturers started pushing the stuff to us furniture guys about 15 years ago and While I don't personally know anyone who uses urethane I am guessing that if there was any major problem the word would be spread pretty far. The two main problems faced with wood finishing are the porousity of wood, which shouldn't affect urethane, and the seasonal expansion and contraction. Metal also flexes, not as much as wood. The swelling question? Again I've never heard anything about problems.

Jeremy at LGM guitars is the resident urethane god. PM him.

Oh, have a nice day.

[rhoads56]

Scotty, i suggest you settle down. If you do in fact have considerable spraying and Urethane experience, you would already know the answer to your questions.

[scottyd]

Scotty, i suggest you settle down. If you do in fact have considerable spraying and Urethane experience, you would already know the answer to your questions.

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yeah like i said its experience in autobody IE metal and plastic, not wood, i thank you both for your input, but i would like an answer from someone who knows if there are any adverse effects, i really want to use the paint because its got gloss and durability is like no other (gloss like hand rubbed laquer, durable like powdercoat), but i dont want to mess up all ive worked for, i guess next time i will ask the question a little different to avoid this kind of response, I will also pm LGM guitars as well, thank you for that information, i do think that its awesome that you in your own way are looking out for folks, even though i didnt ask for health risk advice, thats all included with the MSDS i appreciate your concern, I simply wanted to know if anyone has had a bad experience with that type of enamel or not.....but alas you are right i did step out of bounds with my frustrations..... i just took it way too personal, here is a pic of the last auto project i did, if you still want to question my experience with paint ill give you a link to a tutorial i did for it, as a matter of fact the quart of clear i have is left overs from the pt....

Edited September 20, 2005 by scottyd

[Cyclone]

Scotty,

I have used primarily polyurithane on my projects. The problems that you may have is that wood breaths and the paint may react to the oils/solvents that may have been soaked up by the wood. To protect against solvent pop or fish eye make sure that you have sealed that wood properly and you should be ok. Below is a pic of my warmoth and it was painted using polyurithane.My warmoth

I hope that this helps.

[scottyd]

thank you! cool man the pics kinda small, so i couldnt get a real good look, im guessing by seal you mean like a primer sealer? if so a clear just over the woods probabaly out of the question huh....is it a good idea to use some type of transparent wood sealer and go over that with the poly? man i appreciate your help......thank you

[erikbojerik]

Yep, you need to use a clear sanding sealer that's compatible under your urethane. My only experience is with Minwax sanding sealer and polyurethane, but sounds like this is a bit different from the House of Kolor stuff.

Prep sanding is the key here, the final finish will only be as good as the sanding job underneath. Make sure that your sanding is very level and smooth (I go all the way to 400 grit). When you use the sanding sealer make sure that you level-sand that as well, so that there are no little shiny spots at all. They can look like little dents in the clear coat.

That's a nice job on the PT! And yeah, you can be sure that you won't be the only one reading the posts in this thread. All the posts are archived for posterity, that's why people sometimes put in more info than you asked for.

[Scott Rosenberger]

Here's a link to the large photo Large Strat

[GuitarGuy]

thank you! cool man the pics kinda small, so i couldnt get a real good look, im guessing by seal you mean like a primer sealer?  if so a clear just over the woods probabaly out of the question huh....is it a good idea to use some type of transparent wood sealer and go over that with the poly? man i appreciate your help......thank you

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It will work directly over wood. You can actually use it as a sealer. The grain will stand up and after a sanding the second coat will gloss out. No problems 5 years later.

This was originally a strat neck and was stripped and contoured. Any places where it was over bare wood was indistinguishable after the sand and second coat.

Clearcoat over bare wood

[scottyd]

thanks guys, im gonna give it a shot, my main worry was spraying it and leaving it for 15 min for the paint to "flash"and coming back just to see the glue joints coming apart, lol that would suck beyond belief......i got some laminated trimmings from my neck blank that ill shoot first to see what happens.....

[Cyclone]

Scotty,

I can almost 100% reasure you that your glue joints will not come apart. If it worries you to the point that you may loose sleep test it out on a couple of scrap pieces before you shoot your project. Good luck and I am looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[Southpa]

There should be some concerns about glue joints over the long term. Especially if you are building a neck thru. My first neck thru guitar was covered heavily with rattlecan poly, cures very hard and doesn't flex. The wood WILL expand and contract for any number of reasons, temp./ humidity changes, still drying, internal stress from clamping, whatever. But the hard urethane coating won't flex with these expansions and contractions and a very fine crack will form along glue joint seams. I've read that many furniture builders prefer not to use compounds from the "urethane" family for that very reason.

Edited September 21, 2005 by Southpa

[GuitarGuy]

Nitro shrinks as it cures and you get cracking there too. Its inevitable. Like I said 5 years and running. In fact my friend's silvertone I painted in 97 is still kicking with no blemishes that were not caused by him. (it pains me to watch him handle a guitar)

Edit: Just occoured to me that there is a plasticizer (i know thats spelled wrong) that you can add to clear that makes it flexible. It's for the rubber bumpers and fenders on cars today.

[Devon Headen]

There should be some concerns about glue joints over the long term.  Especially if you are building a neck thru.  My first neck thru guitar was covered heavily with rattlecan poly, cures very hard and doesn't flex.  The wood WILL expand and contract for any number of reasons, temp./ humidity changes,  still drying,  internal stress from clamping, whatever.  But the hard urethane coating won't flex with these expansions and contractions and a very fine crack will form along glue joint seams.  I've read that many furniture builders prefer not to use compounds from the "urethane" family for that very reason.

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But that's not the glue joint failing, that's just finish settling

[thegarehanman]

That "plasticizer" is known as "flex add." I used it once, but, honestly, it wasn't entirely neccessary. I have had excellent results with unreduced 2-part urethane clears with no "flex additive." The (2-part)urithane is inherintly flexible to a certain point; as far as the expansion, contraction, and denting of a guitar goes, I don't find the added flexibility neccessary. Although, charicteristics such as flexibility could plausably vary from brand to brand. Personally, I stick with PPG. I can't speak for 1 part polies or nitro though, as I've never used them.

peace,

russ

[scottyd]

yeah ive used flex add on plastic bumper covers and such, but what a lot of prople dont understand is that after the paint fully cures out the additive stops working, its mostly just for installation of the plastic parts right after painting, the paint wont stay flexible for long

[GuitarGuy]

yeah ive used flex add on plastic bumper covers and such, but what a lot of prople dont understand is that after the paint fully cures out the additive stops working, its mostly just for installation of the plastic parts right after painting, the paint wont stay flexible for long

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Good to know. Thanks.

[Maiden69]

yeah ive used flex add on plastic bumper covers and such, but what a lot of prople dont understand is that after the paint fully cures out the additive stops working, its mostly just for installation of the plastic parts right after painting, the paint wont stay flexible for long

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I don't know about this... I painted an 1969 VW that I installed a Baja kit on with the Flex additive and 3 yrs latter I got a fender redone with out the additive and it lasted 4 months before it started crackling from the fiberglass flexing. Call it placebo effect or whatever you want, but on highly flexible material like plastic bumpers and fibeglass or abs kits, I will use the additive. For a guitar body, especialy a solid body, I find it not usefull, but then again, I haven't sprayed urethane in years (about 9) and all I'm using now is nitro, so I would hear what the ones that haved used it on guitars have to say.