Experience Vs. Enthusiasm

[n8rofwyo]

I am just running a poll for the sake of my own curiousity. I come across documented builds by some of the vets that recieve alot of attention, even though they may be less well documented than builds by newbs that seem to recieve little attention at all.

Nate Robinson

[lovekraft]

Obviously, a meticulously documented build by a great craftsman is very valuable - that said, watching the painfully honest progress of an enthusiastic (if less than gifted) beginner will often point out issues that pros take for granted, and may also illustrate alternate problem-solving strategies that can be used by anybody.

[Mickguard]

Man, nothing beats a good dose of enthusiasm!

I like reading the progress reports of master builders, sure. It's a good place to go for learning the proper way of doing things.

But master builders often have far better tools than I do

On the other hand, people at my level (i.e., total beginner) have to solve a lot of the problems that master builders take for granted --learning from THEIR mistakes has played a vital role in helping me avoid them too!

And there's another really big factor --when I read the screwups (and fixes and workarounds) from an enthusiastic but less-than-experienced builder, it encourages me to try things out, push myself farther, take the risk.

Edit: Another thing I think is important --taking photos can be really helpful for the builder himself. I noticed a major problem on my current build only because I took a photo of it --I didn't spot the detail, despite staring at the guitar for hours and hours...

[Ptt-Guitars]

I voted yes... I documented my first build (which I then lost all the photos and video after my computer crashed)

The only thing which is annoying is stopping to take a photo every now and then!!!

I would only keep track of important steps...such as attaching the neck and cutting out certain parts.etc

Edited November 15, 2005 by Ptt-Guitars

[Mattia]

I'd say pretty much YES. Particulary for first-timers, or people aspiring to build, seeing the progress on a first build can be very valuable, for precisely the reasons LoveKraft mentions.

Documenting your builds is also a good idea for you; do it meticulously, and people can chime in, and more importantly, you have a solid record of what you did (memory isn't always all its cracked up to be), mistakes, blemishes and all. I've got very patchy records on my first few, largely because it was the pre-digital camera age. I don't build to exact plans (draw them up for one-offs, then usually scrap 'em), and every guitar to date has been different in more than one way, so a visual record (and some notes if you can be bothered) is helpful.

Also, pretty much every single tutorial I've seen, be it a pro or an amateur one, has at the very least entertained me (in an 'I like to watch guitars being made' way), and frequently shown me a new, interesting way of doing things.

[Guitarfrenzy]

Also, pretty much every single tutorial I've seen, be it a pro or an amateur one, has at the very least entertained me (in an 'I like to watch guitars being made' way), and frequently shown me a new, interesting way of doing things.

←

I agree, I think that you can learn from anyone, because we all have different ways of doing things and if you can pick up just one thing from someone it's worth reading in my opinion. When I first started learning to build guitars, I challenged myself to learn at least one thing new about building a day. It didn't have to be much, but still it was important because it made me go out and seek information no matter what. So yes, I'm all for more tutorials, but don't just make a tutorial without actually doing anything, because you might misguide someone else as we've seen on PG before.

[Gorecki]

I've found on occasion, novice but enthusiastic efforts produce some creative ideas in problem solving since the novice doesn't necessarily know the 'right' way or have the 'right' devices to get a result.

Genuine problem solving skills are infinitely more valuable long term!

[fryovanni]

I think it is good to document your progress. I found it to be a bit of a distraction to try to take pictures. I think a lot of people have limited tool access and it is helpful to see new ways to make the most of "common" tools. Sometimes methods seem painful or more difficult, but you never know what tools are available. If they are making do with what they have (its good), but that may not be the best approch for others. It is hard to point that out without implying they are doing something wrong. One way or the other the advantages outway the dis-advantages, so its good .

Peace,Rich

[Mattia]

Quite. A lot of the tutorials I see just have me going 'I wish I had a shop that size/more stationary power tools than just a cheap and nasty drill press'; I'm tempted to do a couple of 'proper' tutorials demonstrating my own fairly low-tools, low-tech approach to building. We'll see. Be at least another year or two before I get that far, probably.

[M_A_T_T]

I like watching a tut by anybody, pro or amature. It's just plain fun to watch. I tend to look at the pro tuts more for their quality of work and to see what I'd like to aspire to, but the amature tuts are great for seeing what people at your own level are doing.

As said earlier, tuts are a great way to keep a record of what you are doing. With my current tut, I actually had to refer back to it a few times to see how I did something because it had been a few months. I actually plan to thin down my current tut when finished and print it off into some form of a booklet for myself as an in-shop reference.

[TenderSurrender]

I voted yes!

As noted before by a few people, we can all learn something from anyone, we all have our own little ways about doing things!!

Also, If they do make a tut' we can help them if there is something that is actually going to effect the build, making them a better builder next time, and making this place better for advice

~~ SA ~~

[n8rofwyo]

Thank you for the input, if nothing else its nice to see how some of the big guns feel about it. With that being said, I'm off to start a new project...

Nate Robinson

[Canuck Brian]

I would definitely say yes, it is worth it. I'm a complete noob at making guitars but the feedback that the really experieced guys like Perry, Maiden and other give is invaluable.

[Mickguard]

A followup : a big part of the reason why I put up a thread on my project is exactly what's going on with my Rocket 350 .

It's highly likely I'm running a risk of a failed guitar/joint if I continue with my original plan...thanks to the interest from others, I'll be able to avoid a MAJOR issue (i.e., the neck snapping off!)

[Setch]

Pro or noob, build accounts are usually entertaining, sometimes inspiring, and occasionally baffling. I'm all for seeing more of them, even the few that make you grit or teeth and mumble...*** did you do it *that* way??!

[deadmike]

pheww!

when i first read this poll it seemed rather threatning. but reading the responses its good to know the newb and amatuer builders are of some worth on this forum.

im about to start a new project that will obviously seem amatuer to most on here, its good to know it will at least be looked at. sometimes the forum can seem rather unkind.

the way i see it, the designs and ideas are completetly random, pro or not, everybody has something to contribute.

[Druss]

I'll take pics of the build I'm on now (My first) I wasn't going to till I read this post because I know I'm going to make mistakes. I will need a lot of advice as I go and with pics of my progress hopefully I'll get more suggestions.

[Jehle]

The only thing which is annoying is stopping to take a photo every now and then!!!

+1

It's been nice not doing that for the last few builds. Documenting and documenting well takes time. It is fun to see a build come together though.

[ToneMonkey]

I think it can be useful. When I design things at work (non guitar related unfortunately), if you have been working on it for a while, you become blind to what can be a massive mistake. I know that nearly everytime I'll do a design, there will be a mistake of some size (could just be punctuation or a massive balls up). You just don't see it until someone points it out.

I think that with the tutorials, it gives other people (experienced or not) the chance to pipe up and say that something doesn't seem quite right. I'd say that it certainly can't do any harm.

[Stew]

I think yes because it stays true to the whole title of this website, "PROJECT GUITAR".

It takes enthusiasm to get through a build. That's the best thing about this website is to log on when you run into a snag and hopefully you avoided some major mistakes in the process.

I've stayed away from this website for months now because I've found that a few "experienced" builders love to come down hard on the so inferior builders. That killed my encouragement and enthusiasm.

I don't know if it's ego or jealousy but it sure doesn't help those who are just starting out with wanting to build more guitars in the future. We all have to start somewhere.

Here's what a newbie can do with positive feedback...

From this....

..to this.

Guitar of the month, August 2005

[psw]

Hi Stew, I've missed you not being around...

I've stayed away from this website for months now because I've found that a few "experienced" builders love to come down hard on the so inferior builders. That killed my encouragement and enthusiasm.

This is a little distressing and I am sorry you (and others) have felt this way. I kind of know what you mean but I would have thought the above guitar was universally loved and admired.

I don't know if it's ego or jealousy but it sure doesn't help those who are just starting out with wanting to build more guitars in the future. We all have to start somewhere.

Yes, and those who start out with a different vision in mind is most likely one not constrained by "experience" and as you have shown, enthusiasim and a willingness to learn and perservere to achieve that vision can pay off big dividends.

This can really tweak the noses of more experienced guys. Imagine what Gibson must have felt when Leo Fender came along...he couldn't even play guitar and challenged the whole construction and sound with his Henry Ford approach...yet he made some classic instruments...

Your work is a perfect example of something that is undeniably "good" in both vision and execution. This can be confronting to others who see what you've created and feel that perhaps you don't have there neck building skills, or don't have the ability to do a fancy sunbursting finish carve on an expensive AAAAA flamed maple top. Other's may feel that your work flys in the face of current trends (not a string through, set neck, etc...)...but that is the point really.

The fact is that you don't have to be able to do everything, to do something...something really great that captures peoples imaginations. It has been interesting lately, as there have been some who have come along with some really good stuff that really hands it down to the more experienced pro's in lots of ways...

I am thinking about Darkside's Batman and now Double Dragon guitar projects (extreme carving and theme approach) and the alternative 2x4 and cigarbox GOTM projects...just to name two that come to mind...

Anyway, it's good to see you back on the forum Stew and I hope to see something more from you...I still love the surf styled guitars...can't get enough... pete

[Southpa]

I come across documented builds by some of the vets that recieve alot of attention, even though they may be less well documented than builds by newbs that seem to recieve little attention at all.

I guess there is more than one reason for doing all this. "Attention" works both ways. Everyone has ways of doing things and I admit I have some rather unorthodox methods in my doings. I like to share that with others, , plain and simple.

A lot of people are suckers for expensive and exotic woods, that draws attention. And the guy who can do right by that wood, ie. not f***ing it all up will get attention. Then again, the guy who DOES f*** it all up will get a good dose of attention too!!

[Mattia]

I come across documented builds by some of the vets that recieve alot of attention, even though they may be less well documented than builds by newbs that seem to recieve little attention at all.

I guess there is more than one reason for doing all this. "Attention" works both ways. Everyone has ways of doing things and I admit I have some rather unorthodox methods in my doings. I like to share that with others, , plain and simple.

A lot of people are suckers for expensive and exotic woods, that draws attention. And the guy who can do right by that wood, ie. not f***ing it all up will get attention. Then again, the guy who DOES f*** it all up will get a good dose of attention too!!

Word. I've seen plenty of well-documented builds by newbs get a healthy dose of discussion, and more productive discussion than 'wow! teh awesom3z0r!', which is, y'know, fun enough, but serves little educational purpose. I do love watching talented builders do their thing with fine woods, and I like the tips and tricks I can pick up, but it's often the newbies that surprise me.

The most recent busy build threads that come to mind are those by relative newbies, honestly.