Best Finish In The World...

[rokeros]

Yep, none of you guys have seen my progress on my build but as a matter of fact, asia has the best woodworkers in the world if you didn't know.

The story began when I was clearing my neck with KTM-9, after around 14 coats, I asked my school D&T technicians (62-66 yrs) how do they think to get an ultimate smooth and glossy finish after 40 yrs of experience under a workshop. Then they said in cantonese, "laiy daye yong dee teeht moeo lui laiy zsan yat zsan gor geng". Meaning that there dirty little secret in clear coating was to sand progressively from a grit like 600 to 2000, then buff as you would already know.

But there is one secret ingredient you guys missed out, ...'brasso'

Your probrably going...ok..ook..nothing special...

but actually after final sanding and before polishing, brasso should be applied on a cloth to wipe down the finishing product until matte like or no visible minor scratches. You can now leave it like this if you want a dull flat look, but basically, the brasso acts as an extremely fine grit sandpaper which is so fine that basically acts as in small stage in between sanding and polishing. Still on track? I know my english sux balls, ...so then when polishing or buffing over the brasso, you won't be able to recognise some work. THe school technicians had some examples to show me of some pens and other tools they have clear coating and believe me, you won't understand until you see the final result.

Hope you guys understand what I mean, and basically this is my dirty little discovery from luthiery finishes. peace out...

[Robert Irizarry]

Very interesting...

I'll have to explore this when the time comes. Thanks!

[Tundra_Man]

But there is one secret ingredient you guys missed out, ...'brasso'

There's a picture in Melvyn Hiscock's book (in the "Assembling Component Parts" chapter IIRC) of a guitar being rubbed down with Brasso.

Never tried it, but it sounds interesting.

[Ovality]

I just finished clearing a guitar on Sat. In a coupe of weeks I'll try that on a small area on the back. I'm up for anything that will get a better finish. Thanks !

[Batfink]

Brasso is just the same as any other cutting compound only it's finer than most. If you want the stuff the auto pro's use grab yourself a bottle of G3 - worth it's weight so to speak !

Jem

[dayvo]

I have another product to add to this discussion

Several years ago when I was doing an automotive spray painting course, my lecturer suggested using

Toothpaste to get out fine scratches in the duco

It is also a very fine abrasive and worked a treat

dayvo

[rokeros]

THanks, might try that.

[Racer X]

I have another product to add to this discussion

Several years ago when I was doing an automotive spray painting course, my lecturer suggested using

Toothpaste to get out fine scratches in the duco

It is also a very fine abrasive and worked a treat

dayvo

Yup, I've use toothpaste on stuff before. Even works great on jewelry. Here's my dirty little secret:.........It works best on TEETH.

Edited March 1, 2006 by Racer X

[rhoads56]

wow, some great ideas here people.... but have you guys every considered BUFFING COMPOUND?

[Daniel Sorbera]

If you want the stuff the auto pro's use grab yourself a bottle of G3

I was at an auto body shop in austin recently (one of the best, only dealing in high end sports cars) and they we're using G3. We got to talking about finishes (naturally ) and G3 does seem like a good product and I'll probably use it in the future but as perry put it.

ever considered BUFFING COMPOUND?

If you sand corretly and buff correctly why do you need to use all these other products?

And toothpaste!!?? I would never put toothpaste on my guitars. It belongs in my mouth I'm sure the toothpaste can't be good if you decide you need to put on another coat of clear.

Edited March 1, 2006 by Godin SD

[GuitarGuy]

Heres an entire kit from Norton, sans toothpaste

Eastwood Buffing kit

[Setch]

Buffing compound is great, if you have a buffer.

If you're stuck with a foam pad in a drill, or hand buffing, you need different products. Depending on where you are, proprietary polishing fluids can be hard to come by - I've had 0 luck finding 3M perfect it or finesse it locally. That's when you start looking at toothpaste and Brasso...or automotive cutting paste, or colour restorer etc.

G3 and Brasso are both basically liquid buffing compounds,and work pretty well. Toothpaste, well - try it if you've got nothing else. It's good for removing the factory film from your scuba mask lenses so they don't fog up... and for brushing your teeth

[Racer X]

Don't get me wrong, I've only used toothpaste for polishing metla components, and like I said, jewelry. I have no idea how it is on a guitar, not do I wish to find out. I'll pay the extra bucks, and get the right stuff, and save the toothpaste for my pearly whites!

Edited March 2, 2006 by Racer X

[Maiden69]

Have anyone here used Stew Mac swirl remover? I have used brasso for 16 yrs now, but for my Army Brass, and the consistensy is almost the same as brasso.

[vaxination]

setch,

i am basically in the same situation as you described. living in hawaii, i don't have many of the products available locally and since flammable products can't ship by air, i can't order the products online. just curious... what do you use for polishing using a foam pad and hand polishing? for that matter, the rest of the forum members can chime in too.

[Setch]

I'm lucky, in that I use 'Rustins Plastic Coating'. It's a 2 pack lacquer, not sure exactly what it is (as in Poly/eurethene/etc), but it uses an acid catalyst, dries fast and hard, and looks great. It also has a proprietary polish, 'Rustins Burnishing Paste' which is fairly widely available in the UK. This does a great job, either on it's own after sanding to 2000 grit, or occasionally followed by an automotive swirl remover. I tend to use the swirl remover on dark finishes, which show up any swirls much more.

It gets things pretty shiny:

[vaxination]

very nice results!

[Mattia]

I'm lucky, in that I use 'Rustins Plastic Coating'. It's a 2 pack lacquer, not sure exactly what it is (as in Poly/eurethene/etc), but it uses an acid catalyst, dries fast and hard, and looks great. It also has a proprietary polish, 'Rustins Burnishing Paste' which is fairly widely available in the UK. This does a great job, either on it's own after sanding to 2000 grit, or occasionally followed by an automotive swirl remover. I tend to use the swirl remover on dark finishes, which show up any swirls much more.

It gets things pretty shiny:

Y'know, the more I get dissilusioned with waterbased stuff (USL's gone dissolvey on me on one guitar, and remains pretty soft), the more Rustins looks attractive, also because I can actually get at it over here. How hard does it dry out? Have you compared it to nitro? Ever tried it on an acoustic (seems a bit thick; more I think about it, the more I gravitate towards french polish for acoustics, at least in theory).

[Guitarfrenzy]

If you want that minty smelling finish for your guitar, use Crest Minty Fresh toothpaste!!! Just don't use one that says "Whitening" on the label, or it might bleach your finish... lol.. But seriously guys, these products might work good, but like Perry said why not use something that is made for the job. Then again, if it works for you, then use it. I would come near using Brasso, than toothpaste though. Why hasn't anyone mentioned Baking Soda yet? Wouldn't that subsitute for coarse compound? See, I've got my thinking cap on too.. lol

[Setch]

Y'know, the more I get dissilusioned with waterbased stuff (USL's gone dissolvey on me on one guitar, and remains pretty soft), the more Rustins looks attractive, also because I can actually get at it over here. How hard does it dry out? Have you compared it to nitro? Ever tried it on an acoustic (seems a bit thick; more I think about it, the more I gravitate towards french polish for acoustics, at least in theory).

I haven't tried it on an acoustic, but Stuart Ketchin used it until he became sensitised. He said it was his favorite of all the finishes he's used, but he had to stop using it because he started suffering nausea and headaches after spraying or brushing. With a natural finished guitar it would be pretty easy to lay down 2 or 3 coats and call it done - assuming your grainfill and surface prep are good. It will build fast, but that doesn't mean it has to be ladelled on their - Stuart was happy that his finishes were plenty thin enough. If you plan to spray it with your current setup you'll probably want to up the pressure a little, and maybe use a bigger needle/tip, or it may go on a little dry/sandy.

It does smell pretty nasty - I spray in my garage, and bring it indoors to dry. I usually lock it in the down stairs toilet and run the extractor fan, which vents the smell out into the garage. I wear long sleeves, latex gloves, and a 3M organic vapour mask to spray - I don't want to be forced to stop using this stuff!

I haven't ever tried nitro, but I can't see the gloss being much higher, or clearer. I also found PSL dissapointingly soft, never acheived a gloss I was happy with, had it peel right off my bindings, and got tired of getting *reamed* for shipping and customs getting the stuff over here.

[weezerboy]

i posted the exact same thing a couple of years ago...

brasso and floorwax = perfect glossy neck.

[rhoads56]

Actually, i will chime in and say that the toothpaste trick DOES work, but only for clear enamel lacquered guitars, over a food colouring based dye.

[Mattia]

I haven't tried it on an acoustic, but Stuart Ketchin used it until he became sensitised. He said it was his favorite of all the finishes he's used, but he had to stop using it because he started suffering nausea and headaches after spraying or brushing. With a natural finished guitar it would be pretty easy to lay down 2 or 3 coats and call it done - assuming your grainfill and surface prep are good. It will build fast, but that doesn't mean it has to be ladelled on their - Stuart was happy that his finishes were plenty thin enough. If you plan to spray it with your current setup you'll probably want to up the pressure a little, and maybe use a bigger needle/tip, or it may go on a little dry/sandy.

I've got a 1mm tip, and given my gun's a SATA, a slightly larger tip might be a touch pricey. How's cleanup? Easy? It's got it's own thinner, so I'll probably thin with that down to the right viscosity; I shoot USL and Nitro straight out of the can, no thinning.

It does smell pretty nasty - I spray in my garage, and bring it indoors to dry. I usually lock it in the down stairs toilet and run the extractor fan, which vents the smell out into the garage. I wear long sleeves, latex gloves, and a 3M organic vapour mask to spray - I don't want to be forced to stop using this stuff!

I haven't ever tried nitro, but I can't see the gloss being much higher, or clearer. I also found PSL dissapointingly soft, never acheived a gloss I was happy with, had it peel right off my bindings, and got tired of getting *reamed* for shipping and customs getting the stuff over here.

Right, the 'nasty smell' is a bit worrying; I've got the world's worst spray booth (ie, I shoot out a window in a dead-end hallway I can semi-seal off), and I did Nitro there once, never, ever again, because of the overpowering solvent smell. I always wear organic vapour respirators when spraying finish, even if it's 'only' waterbased stuff. And I'm with you on the getting reamed for shipping and customs! For wood, I'll suffer through it, but finishing products....ugh.

May have to get a small amount and do some testing. That, or figure out a reasonable way to transport all my guitars to Italy once annually, where my folks have a house and space to set up a booth-ish thing, or at least spray outside!

[dayvo]

I have another product to add to this discussion

Several years ago when I was doing an automotive spray painting course, my lecturer suggested using

Toothpaste to get out fine scratches in the duco

It is also a very fine abrasive and worked a treat

dayvo

Hey guys

I suppose I should have added that my suggestion would be an easy way of maintaining an A1 finish from wear and tear, and as a guitar ages to help keep it looking great

There may be plenty of "made for" products out there, but as I said it was just a suggestion

dayvo

Edited March 7, 2006 by dayvo

[Strange Fruit]

Actually, i will chime in and say that the toothpaste trick DOES work, but only for clear enamel lacquered guitars, over a food colouring based dye.