DiezelMonster Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 (edited) Hey guys, I've lurked here, and even have an old sign in that I don't remember, and since I need help desperatly with figuring out what fret distances I need I'll start off by intorducing the problem and my cure. I Love the Washburn USA Dime 3 guitar, and since Dime's passing (RIP) it's gotten impossible to get them for a reasonable price, so when they come up on ebay broken, and they do break because of the poor case design, then I get a chance to get them cheap. Well I bought this one and this is the Damage OUCH!!!! Broken Headstock So I get the guitar and it looks as though it's repairable, the neck is the PERFECT V shape that I love, not too thick, not too thin, but I prefer a bit of a beefier neck. so I thought of ways to fix it, and the more I talked to pros and friends and guitar repair techs, and read in books, the more it looked as though it might be too weak to just reglue, so I thought of possibly gluing then routing some slots to put new mahogany then reshaping, but that seemed harder than I thought origionally, not to mention cosmetically it will look like crap. So I met up with a local friend/luthier named Tony Karol, www.karol-guitars.com and we talked, and I showed him the guitar, and he looked at it and said, "nah, that isn't repairable" so my heart sunk, but in the split second he said that and I looked down, he snapped the headstock off, and boldly exclaimed "WE will just make a new neck". then with that he decided to saw off the old neck!!!!!!!! Removing the old neck So with that he measured and thought and then just dove in and sawed off the neck. then we built a template and routed out the remaining bit of "set neck". We are going to build a new neck! and so I went and bought some hondouran mahogany and we built the neck blank to match the original, a three piece neck with a 15 degree scarf joint, the scarf joint is furhter up the neck than usual as we wanted to copy the washburn design and also put the original "diamond" volute on there, and make it bigger. bits in case The neck will be as close to the original as possible, except almost an inch thick with a killer V shape, and it will have an amazing feel to it. The neck will be set a little deeper into the body than the washburn had it before as it only extended halfway into the neck pickup cavity before, now it extends all the way in and will have more wood left in the body for tone! and STRENGTH!. We will be using an ebony fretboard this time with ebony binding but a piece of slime green dyed maple to offset the binding and the board. I'm getting www.custominlay.com to inlay the ebony board with the "biohazard" waste sign logo, to match the "dimeslime" finish. and I'll be adding a neon yellow and green dimarzio to the neck position to aid in the effect! We are also going to reuse the headstock maple plate and binding, by just sanding the back of the headstock off, and then gluing it to the face of the new headstock, all measurments have been taken into account and should work out perfectly! The new neck is glued up and the scarf cut, the new single piece headstock plate glued to the scarf and it will be ready to plane and get all setup. I am also using two pieces of carbon square rod to alleviate any dead spots. I want this neck to be the best playing neck I own, alot of detail will go into making this perfect! The finish will remain poly but the very back of the neck will be finished with a hand rubbed poly that will dry satin and will be smoother than normal poly. and the back of the headstock will be shiney poly, so it will be like an EB/MM style finish except without oil. Another image Here in lies the problem, I want to retain the Buzz feiten tuning system because the bridge is already placed and we cant change that and the guys at custom inlay.com don't know the proper fret distances and length of the fretboard for a 24.75 scale length fretboard with the feiten system. I wanted to know if anyone here has the proper chart/table for fret distances for the buzz feiten tuning system. I know that It "has" to be done by a certified buzz tech, but realisticly it seems as only a few MM difference in nut distance then subsequent fret placement from the nut. IF ANYONE can help I would greatly appreciate this! I've already contacted Buzz anf there has been no help from him, let alone an email, so I'm out of options on that front, I do have more of these guitars so I could measure the fret distance and fretboard size off that, does anyone have any recomendations on how to do it as accuratly as possible? Thansk for the time!!! Chris RIP Brother Dime!!! 1966-2004 Too many pics, and FAR TOO BIG!!! Please review the image posting rules before posting any more images Edited April 14, 2006 by Setch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiezelMonster Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Did I post this in the wrong spot? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 but you DO have WAY too many pictures of WAY to big a size. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiezelMonster Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Sorry, I just wanted to show the detail, I'll see if I can resize them! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 you are only allowed one pic per post so please link the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 You can copy your fret spacing from the original fretboard - pull the frets and get out your ruler.... I've seen Tony's work on the MIMF, and you are in *very* safe hands. I would trust him to set you up with a compensated nut that will be head and shoulders better than the compromise of the Feitin system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 As far as I know, the frets aren't adjusted, only the nut and bridge. The nut is moved forward approximately 2mm, and the bridge is intonated for stretch tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiezelMonster Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Sorry guys! I didn't mean to break the rules! we are all noobs once though hahaha The original fretboard was destroyed after we cut off the neck...I suppose I could piece it back together to get the fret spacings. and as for as a compensated nut, this guitar has a floyd rose on it., no compensated floyd nuts as far as I know. thanks for all the input guys! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Destroying the old fretboard was foolish, especially since it was removed virtually intact. If you can reassemble it, accurately measure the distance from fret 1 to 13, and multiply the result by 1.0595. Double the number you get, and the result is your scale length. Have your fretboard cut to this scale length. Now, measure the distance from the nut to the first fret, and when you recieve your fretboard, modify the it to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I'm with Setch, exactly why was the fingerboard taken apart? I thought that only the neck wood was damaged from your pictures. Your quickest solution now, is just to build a new neck from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) self-censored to promote harmony and joy-joy feelings on the board Edited November 6, 2006 by crafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabu2k1 Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 wow, like the rest of the members said, what a waste, I think the tech you went to is a fishy, I've seen worse breaks repaired rather simple, and how much did you save compared to just buying the guitar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiezelMonster Posted April 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) I had a whole post written defending what we are doing, but it is pointless as you are all such professionals!!! HA Thanks for my limited stay here but this is not even constructive , And to call Tony "fishy" without EVER having seen a ****ing thing he has done or know the situation fully is BEYOND ME??!?!?!? this is not a waste, but that is only your opinion, and you know what they say about those! Thanks to everyone for reading my post as well, I WANTED A NEW NECK!!! Hence the reason for the post in the first place, the original neck was too thin for my liking, and would have had unsightly repair as this is a natural finish on the back of the guitar, ahhh why am I even bothering! Setch. however thank you, even though I think you misunderstood, as the old fretboard is still intact, just the 19 to 22 fret is missing due to cutting the neck off. anyhow, I'm just going to leave as I'm no match for the obvious pro's here! Good day to you all! Chris Edited April 15, 2006 by DiezelMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) Goodbye. Cause steaming fretboard off and then cutting up neck would have been a more wise solution. Gives that the luthier didn't think the whole project through and went in trigger happy. Unless you wanted different type of fretboard with different fretmarkers. Edited April 16, 2006 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Well the neck could have been repaired but i dont see the problem with replacing it if thats what the customer (you) want, i would have to try and save that headstock though, even if it is an awful design. In hindsight is was a mistake to chop the fretboard without getting the distances you needed but thats hindsight for you. Personally i would just decide what scale length you would like it to be and make a neck fit with the bridge position where it is. It doesnt really matter that the guitar used to be feitenized, now it can be whatever you want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Woah - lets not get silly here. Tony Karol is a *very* able guitar builder, and knows what he is doing, far more than most of the people commenting on this thread. From the pics I completely agree with the judgement not to repair the neck - that break is all short fibres and cross grain breaks - not enough surface area for a good glueup and repair. Nothing fishy or stupid going on there. Sure, the old fretboard could have been salvaged and re-used, but the poster wanted to upgrade/modify, all this was explained in his post. When I commented that destroying the fretboard was foolish, I thought it had been trashed *after* the picture showing it virtually intact. In it's current state you could quite easily measure as I suggested, and use that as the basis for your new fretboard scale length. If you decide to stick around here that's all good - if not, good luck with the repair, I'm sure you and Tony will do a great job. I'd love to see some pics once it's completed (providing you've read the image posting rules by then ). It'd also be great to see some examples of Tony's work - I think a few of the more judgemental posters might be inclined to button it a little if they saw the stuff he's produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travismoore Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Nice guitar like dimebacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernova9 Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Setch, you mean like this one? actually, my favourite of his guitars is this one: Acoustic Guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 (edited) I love you, you love me... Edited November 6, 2006 by crafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Rubbish. There is nothing to indicate the guitar will be ruined, and you comments were unnecessarily abrasive (as they regularly are). The only foolish thing done was the 'destruction' of the old fretboard, which didn't actaully happen - it was a misunderstanding. Seems to me you have a very big mouth when it's time to knock people down, but I've yet to see exactly what you've done that qualifies you as an expert on neck repair or construction or on welcoming new members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiezelMonster Posted April 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Well in reality this guitar will be finished in a month, the NEW neck is already all glued up and it's in the carving stage now, waiting on some crabon rod and the new fretboard with inlays, then it's on to gluing the new neck in and finishing.... Crafty, I'd hate to see what your non-constructive critisicm is like!!! I've taken the advice of Setch, as the old fretboard is still useable from a measuring standpoint and I have all the information I need thanks to some GOOD people emailing me and supporting me. This was a custom shop USA made guitar, Hardly cheap as they retailed for 3500$ in canada in 1995, I paid 400$ for this, as it was damaged in shipping the first time around to the person who originally bought it. Perhaps I flew a little off the handle, but when people start chiming in that OBVIOUSLY havn't even read my initial post and then slamming my good friend and quite able luthier Tony, I get a little on the defensive side. Setch, thank you for the positive criticism, and help! I'll be back in a month or so with the finished product! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I love the yellow/green finish on that guitar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 (edited) we're a ha-py family! Edited November 6, 2006 by crafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Thats funny is that some kind of assumption that mahogany is expensive? Besides poplar its like the cheapest tone wood you can buy even here in the usa. You can get the wood for that neck for $4.75! not including fretboard and frets. What all the hubub about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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