Daniel Sorbera Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) Currently I have no effects. My setup is guitar run into an epiphone valve junior (soon to be heavily modified) On my shopping list is: EH holy grail reverb BOSS giga delay (the twin pedal) BOSS EQ (the twin pedal one) EH chorus VOX wah Thats around $600 worth of pedals. Would it be worth it for me (very sucky player who probably won't go anywhere) to spend that much money on standalone effects? Or should I spring for a multi effect processor like a POD (2.0 or XT, not really sure, XT seems to have alot more features) or a BOSS ME-50? I would only use the effects, I know the amp modeling technology currently sucks, and I'm not looking for any amp modeling or distortion effects anyway, I use the amps distortion. Any recomendations of multi effect processors? Is there any that have good sound quality? It would be nice if it had an expression pedal for the wah and another button for tap tempo on the delay (thats one reason I love that boss delay, super easy tap tempo) Edited May 16, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 i suck and i have..let me see.......740 dollars in stand alone effects, and i'm probably not done yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 I use an older Boss GT-3 processor and it sounds great even for late '90s technology. I'd recommend the GT-6 or GT-8 over the ME-50 any day of the week, and definitely over anything made by Line 6 or DigiTrash. Roland's quality in the Boss equipment is just unmatched at the price point. Since you're saving about $150-200 over the price of buying all those pedals, pick up another Valve Junior head or combo (I can't remember which one you bought). This way you can run the stereo effects from the processor in true stereo through two amps instead of mixed mono into one amp. You can also add outboard expression and switch pedals in case you need even more control over the settings like tap tempo and volume/wah at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Line6's amp models are still superior to the Boss GT-series... but the effects? Not so much. If you don't care about the amp sims at all, I second the GT-series recommendation. There are benefits to multi-effects processors that a collection of stompboxes simply can't match. The only thing individual stompboxes have going for them is durability (in SOME cases... there are crap boxes out there, too) and boutique/vintage appeal. If you're interested in your bread and butter effects, it makes far more sense to get multi. Not to mention the noise levels that can start to pile up with each additional pedal. Multi-effects aren't entirely without noise of their own, but you don't gain "more" with each additional item added to your patch. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted May 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 The BOSS GT-8 and VOX Tonelab SE are both around $500 and look pretty good. Any experience with either of these? Either one would still leave enough money to buy another valve junior and run in stereo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Not much to add here (I use a rack setup: tube amp --> load box--> f/x--> power amp--> cab) except to say that your time-based f/x (reverb/delay/chorus) might not sound so good if they are patched in ahead of the amp and you're cranking it to get power tube distortion. Try them out with your amp first if possible. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted May 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) I'm just trying to narrow my search and here everyones comments/ideas as I have zero experience with effects. I will deffinitly bring in my guitar and my amp and try it out with diffrent setups. Edited May 16, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 i reccomend getting the EH holy grail verb. very nice pedal i have one, but if you set the reverb level too high you get a volume drop. i assume you have an fx loop, you can adjust the vol drop with the level stuff in the loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokeros Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Hey Godin, you do know that behringer make a whole load of replica pedals for dirt cheap right? For delay if you do end up getting singles, I recommend the line6 DL4 over the boss. However if you do get a multi, I would suggest the podxt live. I once wanted to also get the vox SE tonelab however, no matter how tough, valve powered or double chrome vox pedal etc... it can be lol, the technology cannot actually stand up to the pod. I am not a line6 worker or sumthing. Truth is , hte DL4 and the podxtlive seems to be better thats all. Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Slow down there, big fella. There's no need to spend all that money at one time. Figure out what effect you need first, then get that one. Make sure it's the sound you like, then add the next one. If you throw a bunch of pedal on at once you could spend years pulling your hair out trying to figure out why your sound isn't what you want. Trust me. I'm still trying to find my perfect sound. Trouble is, every time I think I've found it my tastes change a bit and I start all over. Anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 The BOSS GT-8 and VOX Tonelab SE are both around $500 and look pretty good. Any experience with either of these? Either one would still leave enough money to buy another valve junior and run in stereo I own a GT-3 and I've gigged with a GT-6 on occasion. I've never gigged with a GT-8, but I've auditioned one at a music store to see what all they improved over the GT-3/5/6. It's actually a little easier to use than their older models and adds a few cool patches and a COSM upgrade as usual. The thing about processors is that they're all different. I like the Boss COSM simulations better than the Line 6 POD simulations just because I like the controls better, but to each his own. I would play through both the Boss and the Line 6 and see which one sounds best to YOU, preferably with your own guitar and amp setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 I don't know about anyone else, but I think digital effects screw up tube tone. Analog all the way, bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Trouble is, every time I think I've found it my tastes change a bit and I start all over. Agreed - digital f/x in front of a tube amp = bad tone (IMO). Digital delay/reverb into tube distortion/compression sounds horrible. Keeping your time-based stuff post-loadbox or post-mic sounds much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm actually running a Boss GT-6 through a Line 6 Ax2 combo amp.. lol So I use both, and can get great sounds with both. I like the Boss pedal a lot, it's got a great sound once you figure out how to set it up with your amp. You'll want to run the amp clean of course, with Bass, Mids, Treble all set in the middle. The output selector on those units help a lot with matching it with whatever your going to play it through. . Combo Amp, PA, etc... I really like the GT-6 but I've thought about selling it lately, but that's only for financial reasons.. I haven't tried the GT-8 yet, although I'm sure it's great. I'm also a big Line 6 fan though too.. so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted May 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) The only reason I thought I would try a multi effect processor is because I figured I could get one for around $200 and save quite a bit of money from the single pedals and maybe buy some shure earbuds or something with the extra money. But since the GT-8 and other nice processors are almost as much as the single pedals, I think I'll just go with the singles. That way I can buy them as I get them (and shop around the the best delay, the best chorus etc etc) and I don't have to save up such a big chunk of change for one purchase (I don't earn much and what I do get I get slowly) I don't know about anyone else, but I think digital effects screw up tube tone. Analog all the way, bud. This has always been a big deal for me. I may not be a very good player, but I was a sound man for a very long time and I have a great ear. Thats more of a curse than it sounds I really can't listen to crapy tones (I hade a V-amp that I absalutly HATED until the day it blew up) and IMO every digital multi effect processor has sounded like crap to me. Slow down there, big fella. There's no need to spend all that money at one time. Figure out what effect you need first, then get that one. Make sure it's the sound you like, then add the next one. If you throw a bunch of pedal on at once you could spend years pulling your hair out trying to figure out why your sound isn't what you want. Trust me. I'm still trying to find my perfect sound. Trouble is, every time I think I've found it my tastes change a bit and I start all over. huh.gif I have tried every one of those pedals and love them all but I can see how it might sound diffrent with all of them together running my guitar through my amp. hmm maybe thers a way I could get a nice sales man to let me try all of them together through my amp and guitar... Edited May 16, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Honestly, good digital modulation effects (phase, verb, delay) can sound perfectly fine if stuck in a tube amp effects loop (parallel preferred). I've got a (cheap) Lexicon MPX100, which is fine, and I stick to the amp itself for distortion effects. Wouldn't bother with guitar-specific multieffects with all sorts of distortion sounds onboard. They just can't compare to the tone of a tube amp breaking up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Honestly, good digital modulation effects (phase, verb, delay) can sound perfectly fine if stuck in a tube amp effects loop (parallel preferred). I'd add this caveat: as long as you aren't using a lot of power tube distortion. I use a fairly clean tube preamp sound... most of my tone comes from winding my EL84 power amp all the way up (only goes to 10 ). My Alesis Q20 sounds horrible if I insert it between the pre and power sections. The power tube saturation/compression distorts the reverb/delay and messes with the wet/dry balance and decay. It sounds great post-loadbox (think EVH rig). Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Honestly, good digital modulation effects (phase, verb, delay) can sound perfectly fine if stuck in a tube amp effects loop (parallel preferred). I'd add this caveat: as long as you aren't using a lot of power tube distortion. I use a fairly clean tube preamp sound... most of my tone comes from winding my EL84 power amp all the way up (only goes to 10 ). My Alesis Q20 sounds horrible if I insert it between the pre and power sections. The power tube saturation/compression distorts the reverb/delay and messes with the wet/dry balance and decay. It sounds great post-loadbox (think EVH rig). Mike Yes, agreed. Then again, I don't much like putting anything other than the slightest of reverb (which the amp has on-board) on my overdriven/power tube breakup tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Digital effects in front of an amp aren't any worse than analog effects in front of an amp. Sometimes they can be better, sometimes they can be worse. Anyone who confuses "digital" with sterile is simply buying into voodoo and hype. Some of the most renowned effects are only possible because of digital DSP. That said, I'm not into effects in general. Not for going straight into a nice fat tube amp. Maybe a gain booster or EQ, but not too many effects. Notes: Delay and Reverb generally sound nasty in front of a gain stage. If you're using your amp for distortion, the reverb in particular will not work right if you place it before. If your amp doesn't have an FX loop, then by default you HAVE to place it in the beginning, and then even the best reverb in the world won't work right. Reverb is the very last thing in your signal chain before it hits the speakers, otherwise it's not worth using. Delay works in both places, but I prefer a delay AFTER the distortion. Ie. right before the reverb. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Anyone who confuses "digital" with sterile is simply buying into voodoo and hype. Some of the most renowned effects are only possible because of digital DSP. There was an audible difference in the early days of digital... those old 12/16 bit processors tended to have a brittle edge to them (like you could hear the the "stair steps" in the waveform). Not so much with the newer stuff. Although I have yet to find a digital flanger that has the great jet "whoosh" of my old Electric Mistress. Some of the old analog "warmth" is actually distortion, i.e. the old Memory Man units - they wouldn't give you "pristine" delay, but a lot of players prefer that lo-fi sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted May 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) Well Mick, the only "effects" I'm thinking about buying is a chorus and a wah pedal, so I won't be "messing up" the tone Than you have the EQ (which will be placed before the amp, I like being able to tailor the distortion sound that way better than after) the Reverb and delay will be placed in the effects loop that doesn't exist at the moment. I've added that to my list of mods for the VJ. Edited May 16, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 What about something like the TC electronic G-Major? All the effects (good ones) but no distortion effects... for 400$ I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Mick raises a very good point: There's a time and a place to throw away the rulebook. Reverb is "intended" to emulate the sound of real space. Hence the reason you place it after-- imagine your amp in a room. It's your distorted, fully amplified sound that's reverberating around the auditorium. If you instead place it before the distortion instead you're distorting the reverb tails. It'd be like capturing your auditorium with the microphone while you're playing a clean patch, and THEN feeding the microphone's signal into an amp. Depending on your amp settings, you're introducing a certain amount of compression, not to mention that as the reverb tail fades out, the amp (particularly a tube amp!) will react to that signal level differently and distort it differently. The result: could be great! Compressing a reverb tail could be a wonderfully dirty effect, and the distortion "changing" as the reverb tail fades out could also be a killer sound! --- Delay is slightly different. Most people expect it to sound like a series of "echoes", which is why it's generally placed at the end. You hit your chord, note, or whatever, and each additional "tap" in the delay line emulates it in tone, distortion, etc., but just at a gradually lower volume. But if you put it first, each "tap" at a lower volume will distort differently. It won't be the same note or chord echoed anymore. GREAT for some things! It's not the expected effect per se, but completely usable. More common than a reverb pre-distortion, for sure. --- Rulebook, schmoolbook. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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