8 String Guitar For Connor Brown Of Putrefy

[Setch]

also think about this...the majority of a frtboard is not endgrain...but inside the fret slots it IS endgrain...and since endgrain is way more susceptible to wicking moisture,then maybe you can see why there MIGHT be a concern.

I think that's the crux of it. If the endgrain is exposed at the ends of slots, it can absorb moisture, which will cause it to expand. If it lifts the fret whilst expanding, and later shrinks back, this could loosen or lift the fret ends.

No film finish will prevent seasonal moisture from passing to and from the wood(it does slow the process greatly though, big plus).

I can't find the thread archived, but in a discussion on the MIMF someone (Deb Suran IIRC) quoted research which shows that even a thick film finish only reduces moisture tranfer by around 5%. Something to think about...

[Prostheta]

I pretty much agree GM. Whether it does provide any practical protection against frets being unseated through moisture is moot. However, in theory it will provide more protection than as not. +1 to unslotted binding there.

I think that sealing - even if the tangs do come to the edge of the board - should be standard practice of care in instrument making. It's like not putting dust caps onto tyre valves when it leaves the factory. In reality it probably doesn't make a difference in 99% of the cases, but I think given the choice, Perry and other professionals would like to eliminate that 1 in a 100 that spits it's dummy out! :-D

Plus on a personal note, I prefer not to see the tang ends so all other opinion is therefore worthless as I'm not practical and prefer the superficial advantages!

Anyway. Make with the guitar dude, and get that mother strung up!

[fryovanni]

also think about this...the majority of a frtboard is not endgrain...but inside the fret slots it IS endgrain...and since endgrain is way more susceptible to wicking moisture,then maybe you can see why there MIGHT be a concern.

I think that's the crux of it. If the endgrain is exposed at the ends of slots, it can absorb moisture, which will cause it to expand. If it lifts the fret whilst expanding, and later shrinks back, this could loosen or lift the fret ends.

No film finish will prevent seasonal moisture from passing to and from the wood(it does slow the process greatly though, big plus).

I can't find the thread archived, but in a discussion on the MIMF someone (Deb Suran IIRC) quoted research which shows that even a thick film finish only reduces moisture tranfer by around 5%. Something to think about...

Setch-

Take a peek at the information from the woodworkers handbook chpt. 15 (starting around page 15). It gives test results for many finishes we commonly use. Much better than 5% reduction in rate of transfer. They may have been looking at water repelants not thicker film finishes.-Handbook ch 15

I suppose that information could be wrong, but it is generally a good source. I would be curious to see what testing they looked at on the MIMF.

Peace,Rich

[Setch]

Yep, I figured it would the kind of thing you'd be interested in.

I had a brief dig around the MIMF trying to find the topic, which was a discussion about the pros and cons of finishing the inside of acoustic guitars, and had a lot of input from Howard Klepper (in the pro finishing camp). The 5% figure wasn't challenged by anyone, which normally happens pretty swiftly with eroneous info on the MIMF, but it could well be wrong, or I may be remembering wrong.

I'll take a look at the link now

[fryovanni]

Yep, I figured it would the kind of thing you'd be interested in.

I had a brief dig around the MIMF trying to find the topic, which was a discussion about the pros and cons of finishing the inside of acoustic guitars, and had a lot of input from Howard Klepper (in the pro finishing camp). The 5% figure wasn't challenged by anyone, which normally happens pretty swiftly with eroneous info on the MIMF, but it could well be wrong, or I may be remembering wrong.

I'll take a look at the link now

Well Howard Klepper is no dummy, and there are many very sharp people(much brighter than me) on the MIMF. Sometimes things can slip through though(as the people who would challenge something stay quiet as to not agree can be a painful experience and a heck of an uphill battle). The big catch 22 with a lot of that is when people walk away with a mis-conception, and act on it or pass it on. I will feel much better after getting your take on how I interpreted the info in the woodworkers handbook.

Peace,Rich

[erikbojerik]

Having (for the first time) just fretted a bound fretboard in the normal way (slot the centerpiece, glue on binding, fret with nipped frets), I found that the board stayed much flatter than an unbound board slotted all the way across. Less back-bow stress on the neck, fer sher.

[thegarehanman]

erik, out of curiosity, did you use wooden or plastic binding? Also, what thickness? Were the fret slots and fret tangs your usual size? I'm just wondering if maybe it was the binding adding the rigidity more so than the lost pieces of fret tang(though i suppose they would add up over the span of a whole neck). I'm thinking maybe the binding is reinforcing the neck something akin to the way an i-beam works, maybe?

peace,

russ

[fryovanni]

Setch,

I took a look around at the MIMF. I found several "should I finish the inside of my acoustic" topics. All I got from it was a bunch of well so and so does it so I am going to or most people don't so I am not going to. Many posters seemed to acknowledge finishes slow moisture transfer, but no mention of how much. You have my attension and interest. Don't leave me hanging mister.

BTW: Based on the test information that I referenced. What do you think about oil finishes vs Shellac, Nitro,Poly,etc... I guess my initial take may change if I was reading the information incorrectly.

Peace,Rich

[erikbojerik]

erik, out of curiosity, did you use wooden or plastic binding?

Wood. I radiused the board, cut 1/4+ off the edges, slotted, then glued-em back on and did final taper before fretting.

Also, what thickness?

0.25"

Were the fret slots and fret tangs your usual size?

Yep.

I'm just wondering if maybe it was the binding adding the rigidity more so than the lost pieces of fret tang.

Yes, I think it was the binding itself that provided the added the rigidity. Makes sense that when the slots don't extend the entire width of the board, it won't flex as much.

[french]

Is what I said!

[/french]

Edited December 12, 2006 by erikbojerik

[PTU 7's.]

Jamie i liek your work man!

I'm elmeier100 on chat.

Next week i start mine, it's = but without inlay.

Saludos!

[THIRSTYGUMS]

got a bit more done: heres a not too great photo:

as far as the fret ends go, i was really surprised to see all the debate but yes they are getting filled for the reason that i dont want to much oil or crap getting in there:

[rob_tart]

Tasty looking fiddle!

[rhoads56]

got a bit more done: heres a not too great photo:

as far as the fret ends go, i was really surprised to see all the debate but yes they are getting filled for the reason that i dont want to much oil or crap getting in there:

Is that sunburst finished, or are you going to even it out? What about the natural binding?? Lots of wavey lines there. Also, the pickup cavity looks a little bit too big, is there a cover going on there??

[Guest AlexVDL]

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[westhemann]

that guitar design has alot of potential...there are alot of things i think need improvement in the execution....

just so you know...if you use a 1/8" undersize router bit(smaller than the bearing i mean) on those templates,the pickup routs will be much smaller.

i am in no way trashing you or anything...it's just that i try so hard for perfection on my own projects(and never achieve it) that i just think you probably intend to get betteras time goes on...and the way to do that is to pay attention to constructive critisism...

i really like the concept you have there...but i would have done a dropped top...it's not too difficult...my first try at it was not perfect...but i feel if i had to do it again it would be.

[RGGR]

That and one of those eight quid MDF topped Chinese workmates that the cross-strut nuts keep shaking off."

I have (had) one of those.....till I sat on it holding a piece while cutting with jig saw, and went right thru it with my knee.

Now some peices Mahogany are in place of the MFD and the thing is solid as a rock. Only have to find way for cross-strut nuts from shaking off.

Like the concept of the guitar, not liking all execution.

1. Have big problem with sand-thru on fore-arm contour. It just looks cheap. On next build you should try to heat and clamb the quilted maple.

2. Do agree on saw cuts on neck binding. It may be intended this way.....everybody with some building knowledge will see it as an error. It takes away from the look of the neck.

3. Inlays. Keep 'm tight as hell. That's name of the game. (Never done inlay in my life, and the main reason is, I want them tight......just never had the guts!! or trusted my abilities on this.)

4. Do also agree with comments on the pup route. It looks a bit botchy.

Please take this as constructive critizism. We are all here for the love of building guitars. Posting means standing open for cheers and critique. Critique that mostly makes you build better instruments in the future.

Edited January 13, 2007 by Maiden69

[somn]

i like ur work alot im starting on mine already but my kahler 8 bridge wont have a nut till the summer so im moving on to my 9 string keep up the great work man

[Guest AlexVDL]

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[rhoads56]

Though i like the headstock it's irrelevant as its the choice of my customer.

p.s. the customer is more than happy! i guess it must look good in the flesh eh?

I think its far to say he was INTENDING to be passed off as a pro. The messy kitchen floor photo studio always gives them away though

Just on the maple binding thing... If it was intended to be slotted through, as it is now, why was the board slotted prior to adding the maple, wouldnt that mean double cutting, and possibility of sloppy fret slots? Was it actually a case of "damn, i bound the fretboard too early, and forgot to cut the slots in the inlay first!"? Surely, if the ends are now going to be filled (good luck with that maple), wouldnt it have been much easier to bind AFTER the inlays and fretboard were slotted, meaning it didnt HAVE to have slots filled (maple). Ok, i can understand that you may not want a huge wide binding with no fret tang insertion, but why not DOUBLE bind (one with slots cut, one to seal everything)??

[westhemann]

keep it constructive ,rggr

[Prostheta]

Agreed. This doesn't help Thirsty develop his work, it's just a march of the sausage party. Perhaps Thirsty introduced his project and intentions badly, incorrectly or misleadingly to others - maybe. Whatever. Maybe the work wasn't done how other people would have done it - granted. Nobody is perfect and everyone still possesses the capacity to learn and progress. Not enough reason to stomp on the guy you know?

All you guitarists are such drama queens.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Prostheta

[erikbojerik]

I can't for the life of me figure out why this kind of crap goes down on a site that was devoloped to help aspiring luthiers.

Scotty, it was before your time, but a few years ago there were at least two instances of PG forum members who put themselves forward as luthiers doing this for a living, as a business (part time or full time, it matters little). In both cases, significant coin was paid and no product appeared at the end, and these people lost their money.

This is partly why people who build commissioned work for others will get a higher level of scrutiny here than hobbiest builders just starting out.

But it is not only that, it is the people who put their reputation behind their work who stand to gain the most from a higher level of constructive criticism, rather than just a string of "dude, you rock!" posts.

Granted, there will always be some who are more prone to criticize than they are to share ways to make the product better, but if people would just be more willing to accept criticism in a constuctive way, and not let pride get in the way of learning, I think you'll find there are a lot of people here willing to help with all manner of learning curves.

[thegarehanman]

p.s. obviously guitar making isnt he's mainsource of income and generally thats what classifies somebody as beeing a profesional. you you would have to be prity ignorant to assume otherwise.

semantics, really. these guys are being picky because the title implies that the gutiar is being sold(or exchanged for publicity/exposure, at least) and they wouldn't want to see a buyer getting screwed over. the title "professional" has little to do with how much money you make doing something and everything to do with your quality of workmanship and the fact that you interact with a clientel. That said, I agree, thirstygums is not a professional, but then again, neither am I. Personally, I would not be giving that guitar to a client, much less a friend. HOWEVER, when I started building I was not remotely as critical of my work as I am at the moment, so I understand the complacency we see here.

Edited January 10, 2007 by thegarehanman

[rhoads56]

i love this site i come here all the time and gather info/ideas/watever so one day ill make my dream guitar...... but ill be F**cked if im gonna post the progress here if people nit pick the S**T out of people's work... sure some critizism is good but thats the constructive type where you give your reason for criticizing and then offer a reason on why it lacks your approval then give advise on the situation... not just nit picking a few mistakes and saying its below par.

First of all, there is no need for the swearing. Seems to be a common feature of your posts. Tone it down huh?

If this guy was a newb, building his first guitar, then thats one thing. I doubt you'll EVER see this level of critiscm if that was the case. But its not... the guy is trying to pass himself off as a pro, regardless of if he is or isnt actually making money.

1 The inlays are just plain horribly executed. Im not talking about the shell, but the gaping cavities (and the binding he cut into because the inlays were too big). That isnt the work of a pro, but not ONE person mentioned it until i did. Everyone was all praise.

2 The nut WILL NOT hold the strings because of the extreme angle. Ok, he can cut a REAL DEEP slot in an overly high nut, but the angle alone will cause tuning troubles, day in, day out. He called it a "design feature", but that same headstock could have been designed with a straighter string pull, if it was thought through correctly.

3 The sunburst is blotchy, AND the mist was not fine enough (spots of colour). That shows lack of familiarity with a spray gun. Fine for a beginner, but that doesnt pass around here when its for "a client".

4 The cut through binding. IF i was supposed to be cut through, why wasnt it installed BEFORE the fretboard was cut? Would have been easier. I say it was a mistake, when he realised the inlays needed slots cut through them. Seen it before, common mistake for those that havent done it before. I dont know of a single example by a "pro" (or someone claiming to be) where this was wanted.

5 Forearm carve... this is personal opinion, so lets not go there.

great work man... been following this one for a while few minor pr, got a feeling your future guitars are gonna awesome aswell

p.s. obviously guitar making isnt he's mainsource of income and generally thats what classifies somebody as beeing a profesional. you you would have to be prity ignorant to assume otherwise.

Here are some links to show you the guy IS passing himself off as a pro:

http://www.myspace.com/thirstygums

www.putrefy.co.uk

(quote)

On a final note, Connor is having a custom built 8 string guitar built by J CUSTOM SHOPS (www.myspace.com/thirstygums) or contact jaime @ thirstygums@hotmail.com. Details and pictures of the progress on it can be seen here so check it out!!!! Thats all for now, feel free to have a wonder round the site and download some brutal tunes \m/ stay brutal/slam hard PUTREFY

If he had come in and said "yeah, this is for my buddy, check this out", no one would have said a thing. BUT, because we have seen people try and pass themselves off as pro's before, when clearly they have a long way to go, we point out the mistakes. I do not want to see another member here, ripped off because they thought they were getting a pro to work on their guitar/neck/whatever. Its happened way too many times. This forum isnt here for people to prey on others, to fund their "trial and error" building. Not quite saying thats what will happen here, but will Jamie knock back a paying offer?? I say no.

No one here is out to "get someone", or gang up on a member, unless they were trying to pull the wool over our eyes. He got caught out, and has now admitted (back pedalled?) that he isnt quite a pro. If only he would be so honest about the "design features".

[biliousfrog]

personally, I'd rather have 100 posts pointing out things that are poorly executed or could be improved than 100 posts of "nice work, you rock!"....might sound a bit odd but I honestly would. Saying things like, "nice finish", "cool figure", "sexy bridge" , "I've got one of those pickups, they rock!"...etc. isn't constructive, they're mearly personal opinion, ego food & don't help anyone. That's not to say that positive comments aren't helpful, they just need to be used constructively.