stenns Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 So for the last couple months ive had this project on the go. It's my first guitar and my second major wood working project. I started working on it last semester in may and by the end of june I had the body roughed out. Didn't get much done on it over the summer, because I'm mostly using my school's tools. Had some downtime since september while waiting for the correct binding to arrive, but recently some progress was made and I figured I would start a thread. http://img21.imagefiasco.com/viewimage.php...es/3M053443.jpg http://img21.imagefiasco.com/viewimage.php...es/2ag53570.jpg http://img21.imagefiasco.com/viewimage.php...es/Ei753622.jpg I used Jon Catto's '58 or '59 plans from mimf.com and used this method of making a neck angle: route binding cavity all around body (on table). Route edge to final thickness using half round router bit all the way around except for cutaway and neck joint area. Use block plane accross grain to join the top of the binding at the neck joint to where the far edge of the neck pickup. Then connect point where fretboard ends to far edge of bridge pickup. It worked out ok except the angle is ridiculously steep due to my excessively thick top. The carve ends up being like 9/16ish deep and the neck angle is 6 degrees. It matches the bridge heigh well enough, but I placed my pre-slotted fretboard on the top and realized that the nut is going to be level with the back of the body. This is what I'm expecting: http://img21.imagefiasco.com/viewimage.php...es/vJJ54782.jpg Maybe it's just me but I think it's too steep. If so I might introduce an angle on the neck tennon and then plane the top of the body flush where they connect. If the bridge needs to be lower I can allways lower the carve there too. I started carving with a rasp and banged up the edges a bit before going into town and getting a set of spokeshaves (here: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=...,50230&ap=1 ) They're tiny but heaven compared to what I was using before. I'm leaving the top of the guitar flat until I put the pickup cavities in. I am carving it by eye with several photos of les pauls in front of me. If you have any suggestions as to how I can make the carve more les paul-like please suggest them! As for binding, I have stew mac's cream abs .090" deep, 7/16" thick. Closest I could get for binding channel was .060" and I'll sand it flush. But, when I place the binding in the channel, I can tell that there will be visible gaps when viewing from the top. I read somehwere that If you dissolve some scrap binding in acetone, you can use the sludge to fill the gaps, but I tried and it didn't work on my abs so I'm gonna look into getting some nitro cellulose stuff. Does anyone know where I can find it at these dimentions? Be VERY careful when working: I banged up the mahogany back in a million places before finally starting to work and carry it around in a towel. Every time I picked it up there was a new dent in it. My plan is to steam them out with an iron and sand, although I find it stains pink/purple when the mahogany gets wet. For finish, I want to do poly or nitro over either solid black, solid or transparent blue, or a tabacco sunburst. I really like a transparent back on les pauls though. If I can't get the dents out and cover up the gaps in the binding I'll go with a solid colour. I haven't started the neck yet but will as soon as im done most of the body. I am open to advice, criticism and questions! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernova9 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 (edited) I used Jon Catto's '58 or '59 plans from mimf.com and used this method of making a neck angle: route binding cavity all around body (on table). Route edge to final thickness using half round router bit all the way around except for cutaway and neck joint area. Use block plane accross grain to join the top of the binding at the neck joint to where the far edge of the neck pickup. Then connect point where fretboard ends to far edge of bridge pickup. It worked out ok except the angle is ridiculously steep due to my excessively thick top. The carve ends up being like 9/16ish deep and the neck angle is 6 degrees. It matches the bridge heigh well enough, but I placed my pre-slotted fretboard on the top and realized that the nut is going to be level with the back of the body. This is what I'm expecting: http://img21.imagefiasco.com/viewimage.php...es/vJJ54782.jpg Maybe it's just me but I think it's too steep. If so I might introduce an angle on the neck tennon and then plane the top of the body flush where they connect. If the bridge needs to be lower I can allways lower the carve there too. I started carving with a rasp and banged up the edges a bit before going into town and getting a set of spokeshaves (here: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=...,50230&ap=1 ) They're tiny but heaven compared to what I was using before. I'm leaving the top of the guitar flat until I put the pickup cavities in. I am carving it by eye with several photos of les pauls in front of me. If you have any suggestions as to how I can make the carve more les paul-like please suggest them! As for binding, I have stew mac's cream abs .090" deep, 7/16" thick. Closest I could get for binding channel was .060" and I'll sand it flush. But, when I place the binding in the channel, I can tell that there will be visible gaps when viewing from the top. I read somehwere that If you dissolve some scrap binding in acetone, you can use the sludge to fill the gaps, but I tried and it didn't work on my abs so I'm gonna look into getting some nitro cellulose stuff. Does anyone know where I can find it at these dimentions? Be VERY careful when working: I banged up the mahogany back in a million places before finally starting to work and carry it around in a towel. Every time I picked it up there was a new dent in it. My plan is to steam them out with an iron and sand, although I find it stains pink/purple when the mahogany gets wet. For finish, I want to do poly or nitro over either solid black, solid or transparent blue, or a tabacco sunburst. I really like a transparent back on les pauls though. If I can't get the dents out and cover up the gaps in the binding I'll go with a solid colour. I haven't started the neck yet but will as soon as im done most of the body. I am open to advice, criticism and questions! Thanks! I think your neck angle is too steep - the way you've drawn it (with the flat body top) isn't right - it should be a straight line from where the bridge is going to sit to the nut. That determines your neck angle. If you look at your diagram, that line would mean your neck is currently too low, and will need to come up in order to make that straight line. I do love the top carve though, very nice. You should check out Setch's Les Paul tutorial - http://home.asparagine.net/ant/blog/ for a good walkthrough. Edited November 5, 2006 by Supernova9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Neck angle is drawn wrong. You need to draw a string from the bridge to the nut and find the resulting neck angle that way. You'll also need to know the height of your bridge with room for a bit of adjustment. Very nice work on the body so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 You still need to properly calculate your neck angle, using the methods outlined in Hiscock's MYOEG or Perry Ormsby's thread in the tutorial section. As you have it now, it's too steep. Your carve and general wood work look very respectable, don't let lack of planning let them down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenns Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) Thanks guys. The angle is functional; ie. the top of the bridge is just in line with the top of the fretboard when I position it along the neck angle and extend it over top of where the pickups should be. I took the method from a post in the library at www.mimf.com. I would re post it here but I don't think they would like that (copyright mumbo jumbo) If you go there and do a quick registration you can search the library for a post entitled "John Catto tells us how to rout LP pickup cavities at an angle, so the pickups will be parallel to the strings" . Just go to the forum, log in, click the library link near the bottom, and there should be a big link near the top to search the library, and if you type exactly that in it should be the only result. I think the angle would normally come out to 4/5 degrees except that my carve is deeper. My only concern with the angle is only that it might look very odd. When put the fingerboard along the angle and line it up where it will eventually meet the body, the bottom of the fingerboard ends up being right inline with the back of the body. I fixed up my doodle a bit: http://img21.imagefiasco.com/images/gLL70851.jpg Fyovani was kind enough to draw me some auto cad files a while back, and he figured it should be 4 degrees, with the pickup plane extended past the bridge so it could sit lower, and thence the net neck angle be lower. ahhaha I guess it slipped my mind when I saw catto's post and just decided to use his method (bad memory, took me a while to finally get around to neck angle). But anywho.... The morise has been routed! shoot.... I could plane the neck angle shallower, and measure it out to 4 degrees. But then I would need to either shallow out the bottom of the mortise or the tennon. If I did the mortise, I could just go over it again with a template bit and follow the sides of the mortise? To fix or not to fix? to mortise or to tennon? ahha Thanks for the feedback guys! Edited November 6, 2006 by Maiden69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGman Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 i see how the angle works with your picture, but still, thats a huge angle!, do you plan on having this in a hard case? I thought lp's had 3 degree angles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fatalities Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 now thats wierd but different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz tradie Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 The stew-mac plans of a 1959 flame top L.P. state the neck angle for that year to be 4.4 degrees. Just went out to the workshop and checked. cheers, Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenns Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) Aah yahh I thought about getting it into a case too..which could be a problem. I think what I'm gonna do is go over the top where the neck connects with a block plane and try to at least get it to 5 degrees, then route a bit of the mortise again to match the angle. The hardest part is going to be the angle on the small sliver of top next to the cutaway and getting it to match the other side. Here are the drawings Fryovani gave me, I drew a line and found out mine is probably about an inch and a half out at the nut: http://img21.imagefiasco.com/images/j8P16525.jpg Edited November 6, 2006 by Maiden69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAI6 Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) http://img21.imagefiasco.com/images/gLL70851.jpg It seems to me that what is mainly putting this neck at such a steep angle, is that the bridge is too far forward. At least, that's what it looks like to me. Is that truly in the right position? Edited November 6, 2006 by Maiden69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 1st of all the drawing seen disproportionate. The body looks too big for the neck, and the position of the bridge looks too far foward. Re check your measurements!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenns Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Aahha so http://img21.imagefiasco.com/images/gLL70851.jpg is simply my rough drawing in MS. paint to show what I mean about the nut being in line with the back of the body. I took no measurements, it really was just a sketch. The other one, http://img21.imagefiasco.com/images/j8P16525.jpg is the working drawing, matched to John Catto's '59 cad drawings. Body is 17.25 inches long and the bridge is about 9.8 inches from the neck joint along the centre line. Sorry for the confusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenns Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Allrighty, so I fixed the angle and the mortise, everything looks decent. Before routing the pickup cavities I decided to start on the neck. Thinking ahead to the headstock, I have a question on joinery. The scarf joint seems to be a popular choice among users here, but I would like some feedback in regards to this: Making a face-to-face glue up in the headstock region, so as to increase thickness of the neck blank, and then cutting the headstock shape from there. From what I understand, it is weaker, as the grain does not run paralell to the face of the headstock. What I would like to know is how the procedure compares to that of the scarf joint. Is it easier or harder? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) I have the neck off a '92 LP Studio right now.....5.5° neck angle. I take it you are doing a scarf like Setch's...with the joint being within the headstock instead of under the 1st fret. I just did one this way, and I like it very much, ears are glued onto the sides to help with the strength. You will have to put a laminate on the front and back of the headstock (also helps the strength), but once you do, it is invisible. Edited November 21, 2006 by erikbojerik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have the neck off a '92 LP Studio right now.....5.5° neck angle. I take it you are doing a scarf like Setch's...with the joint being within the headstock instead of under the 1st fret. I just did one this way, and I like it very much, ears are glued onto the sides to help with the strength. You will have to put a laminate on the front and back of the headstock (also helps the strength), but once you do, it is invisible. A scarf joint is harder, but not very much so, and the advantages it brings in strength and stabiltiy are more than worth the small additional effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matttheguy Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) I doubted my skills far too much to attempt a scarf joint, and in retrospect, I think I should have tried it. Word of advice: follow any word of advice Setch or any other knowledgeable person here gives, it will really help out in the long run. They know what they're doing! Edited November 22, 2006 by matttheguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenns Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Long time no update Well the scarf joint turned out great and ive since joined the neck and routed the inlays (yet to be glued). Im now stumped by the stewmac abs half inch tall binding, which i cut to size last night. Today I tried to bend it and failed miserably. Its too stiff to make it out of the cuttaway, so i tried pouring boiling water on it, and it didnt work...then i tried heating it above my stove and it warped, so then i got the propane torch and further destoyed it. So im gonna order some more, but how the hell do i put it in without it getting mangled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Tape, glue, and a heatgun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmarlin Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 I used a hair dryer to bend around the tight spots and taped it as I went, let it cool down take all the tape off and then it is shaped and ready to glue and tape back into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 ...pouring boiling water on it...then i tried heating it above my stove...then i got the propane torch... You're being too aggressive with it, you have to give the heat time to penetrate all the way through the binding. Hair dryer should work fine as pmarlin said; tape it in place once it has conformed to the bend, let it cool, and you're ready for gluing. Take it slow and you should be happy with the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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