guitar101 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Had a bad buying experience purchasing a guitar body. I would like to warn others about the merchant but I don't know if it is appropriate or allowed on this forum. Any comments? I hate to see someone else get taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Had a bad buying experience purchasing a guitar body. I would like to warn others about the merchant but I don't know if it is appropriate or allowed on this forum. Any comments? I hate to see someone else get taken. ebay? what was wrong with the body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar101 Posted October 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Had a bad buying experience purchasing a guitar body. I would like to warn others about the merchant but I don't know if it is appropriate or allowed on this forum. Any comments? I hate to see someone else get taken. ebay? what was wrong with the body? It wasn't E-Bay it was a company. When I got it it had a saw cut in the middle of the upper curve before the horn. It was about 3/4 of an inch deep and they had filled it with some kind of filler. The two routes on the back instead of flowing into the heel just ended abruptly. I was going to paint it and I thought what the heck. But when the body was sanded the filler came away and left the wood. I got some auto two part spot putty and filled it. I decided to call them and complain and they said send it back and they would replace it. I didn't want to send it back but they insisted. I didn't want to wait because it was being built for my son. That was about six weeks ago and I haven't recieved a replacement. I called twice and twice they they said it was on it's way. I sent an E-mail two weeks ago and they never responded. Latey they don't answer their phone if you can get through since their phone is usually busy. I just ordered a body from Warmoth today to finish up the guitar. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but I am pretty ticked off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) It's legitimate info to pass along, as long as you state actual facts, and it's first-hand experience. Although you could probably get away with "you're unethical and a hack, simply 'cause I don't like you" on this forum, but I don't think your situation falls into that. Edited October 20, 2007 by soapbarstrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) You've noticed not a lot of people replying to this thread? When I first read it I thought. " I ain't touchin that with a ten foot pole". We've had a few similar situations where someone said, "Don't buy from so and so because their product, service, attitude, or whatever is crap". We've actually had the accused register to the forum, come online and defend himself. So I would say NO its not a good idea to smear some company or an individual on this forum. If your problem is a result of some sort of misunderstanding or accident on the part of either party then damage can be done and cause loss of business and reputation, not to mention bad feelings all around. A lot of people are registered here and read postings. Quite a few businesses and individuals rely on forums like this to spread their good name. Word of mouth is a powerful business tool. My advice is to tread lightly. There are should haves and could haves. You should have sent the body back immediately after noticing the flaw. You should not have tried to fix the flaw yourself. A saw cut that interrupts across the woodgrain cannot be made to look right if your aim is a natural finish. When the company gets the body back and sees that something was done to it, how are they to know that it wasn't a situation where YOU inadvertantly made the cut and decided to try to scam them? You should have taken some pictures of the problem areas and posted them on this forum asking, "What would YOU do if you got this in the mail?", before sending it back. Is there any other info we should know? Perhaps you got the body at a good discount price because it was flawed? Maybe you missed some fine print? There are so many scenarios that could result in a plausible explanation as to why the company has not given you satisfaction. Everything from a death in the family to trying to keep up with back orders etc. Everybody makes mistakes, even the people who are transporting it from point A to point B. Perhaps you could mention to the company that you are asking for advice here. Make it a point that you will not mention their "good" name... YET. If they really value their business they will make the effort to give you satisfaction. Edited October 20, 2007 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb guitars Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) Quite a few businesses and individuals rely on forums like this to spread their good name. Word of mouth is a powerful business tool. My advice is to tread lightly. no business that sells a product-full price with a mistake on it never should be given a good reputation. people want to buy a good product. the guy you bought from shouldn't have sent you a mistake-he should have sent you what you paid for. these forums are used, especially for education. we should be educated as to who puts work into their product and who half-asses it. tell us the one who sold you a mistake, he should be made aware of. would you rather that someone else buys a body from him with a similar mistake? he deserves a reputation at par with his products.....flawed. sorry about the spelling, i just woke up. Edited October 20, 2007 by sb guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar101 Posted October 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 You've noticed not a lot of people replying to this thread? When I first read it I thought. " I ain't touchin that with a ten foot pole". We've had a few similar situations where someone said, "Don't buy from so and so because their product, service, attitude, or whatever is crap". We've actually had the accused register to the forum, come online and defend himself. So I would say NO its not a good idea to smear some company or an individual on this forum. If your problem is a result of some sort of misunderstanding or accident on the part of either party then damage can be done and cause loss of business and reputation, not to mention bad feelings all around. A lot of people are registered here and read postings. Quite a few businesses and individuals rely on forums like this to spread their good name. Word of mouth is a powerful business tool. My advice is to tread lightly. There are should haves and could haves. You should have sent the body back immediately after noticing the flaw. You should not have tried to fix the flaw yourself. A saw cut that interrupts across the woodgrain cannot be made to look right if your aim is a natural finish. When the company gets the body back and sees that something was done to it, how are they to know that it wasn't a situation where YOU inadvertantly made the cut and decided to try to scam them? You should have taken some pictures of the problem areas and posted them on this forum asking, "What would YOU do if you got this in the mail?", before sending it back. Is there any other info we should know? Perhaps you got the body at a good discount price because it was flawed? Maybe you missed some fine print? There are so many scenarios that could result in a plausible explanation as to why the company has not given you satisfaction. Everything from a death in the family to trying to keep up with back orders etc. Everybody makes mistakes, even the people who are transporting it from point A to point B. Perhaps you could mention to the company that you are asking for advice here. Make it a point that you will not mention their "good" name... YET. If they really value their business they will make the effort to give you satisfaction. I agree and that is why I inquired before posting any names. I don't want to slander a legitimate business because I was disappointed but they should keep their word and replace it. There may be a legitimate reason why they are slow sending a replacement but a long tiime has gone by. Yes I should have sent it back immediately but it was their idea to have me return it not mine. When I initially called them it was just to complain I had no intention in sending it back because i felt I could work around it. I described the flaw and they were fully aware that I had started to work on it but they insisted that I return it. The upside is if I get the replacement I'll just have to build another guitar right????? If someone is interested they can mail me privately. I'll keep it off the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digideus Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) no business that sells a product-full price with a mistake on it never should be given a good reputation. people want to buy a good product. the guy you bought from shouldn't have sent you a mistake-he should have sent you what you paid for. Thats true, but its also true that mistakes happen and there are ones that get through the net accidently. I think that the first port of call with any problem is the supplier. If they REFUSE to replace or rectify an order that is obviously faulty, then their reputation is fair game. It seems Guitar101 HAS already done this, but there are some particular points that make this a bit of an odd case... When I got it it had a saw cut in the middle of the upper curve before the horn. It was about 3/4 of an inch deep and they had filled it with some kind of filler. The two routes on the back instead of flowing into the heel just ended abruptly. I was going to paint it and I thought what the heck. But when the body was sanded the filler came away and left the wood. At this point I would have called them and explained it was faulty. I got some auto two part spot putty and filled it. I decided to call them and complain and they said send it back and they would replace it. I didn't want to send it back but they insisted. I didn't want to wait because it was being built for my son. That was about six weeks ago and I haven't recieved a replacement. So, you DID return it? Thats good, however the fact you havent heard in six weeks is bad. Clearly they need to replace the body, particularly because you have paid for it, it was supplied faulty and was returned in good faith after they insisted. My advice would be to approach the supplier, explain what is wrong and see if you can sort it out between yourselves. If the situation cannot be resolved, then you have every right to express your opinion of his work and services as well as take whatever legal action you can to return your money or goods. If they persist in not answering the phone, send them a letter by recorded delivery (and send a copy to yourself for legal purposes). It may take longer, but its the proper way of doing it Edited October 20, 2007 by Digideus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 I don't think you should give the name. The fact that they told you to return it for a replacement means they want to do business the right way. It's quite possible for a company to mess up one order and send out thousands of flawless orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 If you used a credit card, try going through the merchant dispute system. Once the bank takes the money out of their merchant account, that'll get their attention real quick. If they choose NOT to cooperate, you get your money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I don't think you should give the name. The fact that they told you to return it for a replacement means they want to do business the right way. It's quite possible for a company to mess up one order and send out thousands of flawless orders. IMHO, when a business DOES make a mistake and acknowledges it, they should fix it IMMEDIATELY if they want to keep a good name. If they don't rectify it right away then I think the experience should be relayed to others so that they may avoid the same problems. This is not an excuse to slander, or start a smear campaign, but relaying your experience, if it was a particularly bad one is not out of line. This is all of course opinion and everyone may have a different one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb guitars Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 just post the ones who screwed you over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 IMHO, when a business DOES make a mistake and acknowledges it, they should fix it IMMEDIATELY if they want to keep a good name. If they don't rectify it right away then I think the experience should be relayed to others so that they may avoid the same problems. This is not an excuse to slander, or start a smear campaign, but relaying your experience, if it was a particularly bad one is not out of line. This is all of course opinion and everyone may have a different one. Good point. I guess they should have made it right immediately or else told you if there would be a delay due to unexpected circumstances or... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar101 Posted November 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 IMHO, when a business DOES make a mistake and acknowledges it, they should fix it IMMEDIATELY if they want to keep a good name. If they don't rectify it right away then I think the experience should be relayed to others so that they may avoid the same problems. This is not an excuse to slander, or start a smear campaign, but relaying your experience, if it was a particularly bad one is not out of line. This is all of course opinion and everyone may have a different one. Good point. I guess they should have made it right immediately or else told you if there would be a delay due to unexpected circumstances or... I finally got ahold of them and asked them to refund my Credit Card several weeks ago they were to E-mail me if the card is not on file. I will check my card statement when it comes in but I am prepared to be disappointed. Tony... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar101 Posted November 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 Well it looks like I am out the money for the guitar body. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.m...f6ecfb?lnk=raot I called the Tulsa Better Business Bureau and lodged a complaint. I noticed orders weren't filled after money was taken and they were all ready having problems. If they were going under they should not have taken orders. This is in my opinon criminal activity. I suggested this to the Better Business Bureau. They are going to look into it. Hopefully no one else here got involved with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Call your credit card company, explain it, and charge back the amount. THEY do the chargeback, not the company who took the money in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 THIS might help you out a little as to whether or not it's OK to publicly air your grievances on an open forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibreakemineedtobuildem Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 What would have been the problem by naming a company you purchased a body from? You bought it,how is it? If you got something from homedepot that was sub par you wouldn't hesitate to name them would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopolis Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 by reading the other post I would assume they vanished. I had a problem with a board and asked on here weather or not I should send a board back or not. Someone asked the name of the company and I said it, before long it was a heated debate over what a person on the phone, did or did not say, when the company came on the forum. I had many backers on my side of the matter but still. Now I dont talk about it. I could understand if they steal from you, or something goes horribly wrong, but untill that point I wouldnt say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjhalsey Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 I say post the company name. If they were an upstanding company doing quality work then they would not have sent that body to you in the first place. If I make a mistake like that, I sell it as a second and list all details of the repair or it goes in the firewood pile. They tried to pawn it off and they need to be ousted! JMHO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 I don't think there is an issue with giving an honest fair review of a part or service, that is done all the time. If you are in unsure if there is fraud involved and have contacted the proper authority's, or if you have recieved information regarding the status of a company. Then Yes, pass on that information. If you are in dispute with a company, and you are seeking resolution via negotiation, and you want to use a board to pressure them. BAD idea! What you are doing is threatening their reputation, and forcing them to give you something or you will do that reputation damage (which will cost them business and money- real monitary damages). In doing so you you can be held liable for damages to them. I will try to find a link to a topic on this subject over at the OLF. If memory serves a Florida court had ruled in favor of a company that had been damaged this way. There is a big difference in offering a product review, and using a public forum as a tool to threaten a company. If you are seeking nothing from the company, and the information is fair and honest, no issue. P.S. I am not sure if a forums owner could be held accountable for damages in these cases, but in the interest of respect or to not put the forum owner at risk, I would suggest playing it safe and say if you are in doubt don't do it. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) If you got screwed over buy a vendor you should post the information so everyone knows. I don't remember free speech being an issue here. I cant see how the owner of this site would be liable for describing your situation even if you are making it up. He has the option to pull the post. If the vendor wishes to get involved here then it will be better for you in the long run. Now I don't know the circumstances in which you made the purchase or if the vendor said the body was paint quality only. So you have us all at a disadvantage. Hopefully you have made every effort to get your money back and have documented your efforts. Then you contact your credit card company and they will send you out a form to fill out in which you will document your attempts to solve the problem. Ultimately it will be your credit card company who help you out with a dead beat vendor. It will take time but if you followed up on the issue with the vendor and they didn't help you out you should receive a refund. I think you have to wait 30 days before you can file a claim. I would call your CC company regardless ASAP. Edited December 1, 2007 by Woodenspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 If you got screwed over buy a vendor you should post the information so everyone knows. I don't remember free speech being an issue here. I cant see how the owner of this site would be liable for describing your situation even if you are making it up. He has the option to pull the post. If the vendor wishes to get involved here then it will be better for you in the long run. Now I don't know the circumstances in which you made the purchase or if the vendor said the body was paint quality only. So you have us all at a disadvantage. Hopefully you have made every effort to get your money back and have documented your efforts. Then you contact your credit card company and they will send you out a form to fill out in which you will document your attempts to solve the problem. Ultimately it will be your credit card company who help you out with a dead beat vendor. It will take time but if you followed up on the issue with the vendor and they didn't help you out you should receive a refund. I think you have to wait 30 days before you can file a claim. I would call your CC company regardless ASAP. I am assuming you are responding to what I said, when you comment about the site owner being pulled into these things. I am not sure if they could be liable. There is no issue with giving a review or passing on recommendations. It is a problem, if you use a forum to leverage a company with the threat of damaging their reputation if they do not give you what you want. That and only that is what I am saying NOT to do. This is not a free speech issue. How would you like it if you were put in the position as a dealer. Where some kid wanted something more from you when you met your end of a sale. You explained your policy, and had held up your end of a transaction. Then the kid told you he is going to screw you over by slamming you on every forum they could till you give in. You being in the right stand your ground, not really wanting to do business with this person again (and note; you being FULLY in the right). Then starts a flood of slanderous claims against your company, it's products, your integrity. Now you can try to find all these topics, and spend the time to defend your reputation or you can pay the kid off and so they stop. This has and does happen, and this is also why the courts are finally seeing these cases. It has happened on this site, and the site was absolutely used as a tool to apply pressure (this is not speculation, the person who posted sent me a PM stating the did just that, and after they recieved what they wanted they dropped it). Peace,Rich Note; I am not directing this at the person who started this thread. They have not posted this to pressure a company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar101 Posted December 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 I guess I will chalk it up to experience and move on but it irks me that these guys are getting away with this. The Better Buisness Bureau in Tula said they have recieved a number of complaints about them in the last few months. Anyway nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjhalsey Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 If you are talking about International Luthiers Supply, Inc. then you are not alone. A couple guys over at the Reranch forum have had trouble with them also. One guy ordered a loaded pickguard and it took for ever for them to send it and when they did they sent the wrong one. It took the guy several months to get it straighten out. Folks who run their business like this deserve to be outed. If they give poor customer service the only way someone else does not get owned by them is by word of mouth. I will not deal with them and I suggest you folks stay away from them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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