Build #3

[Jon]

Just about complete.

Specs:

32" Scale - 24 Medium frets w/ zero fret

2 1/4" Nut - 3" Bridge

Gotoh Tuners

Hipshot Retainers

Padauk Body (2 piece)

Padauk Neck (1 piece)

Padauk Fingerboard

Padauk Ramp

Piezo PVDF ~> PZP-1 Cafe Walter pickup buffer

DR Black Beauties

Custom Logo made by Doug at Parable Guitars

No knobs

The bridge system is self built, I spent about 30 hours getting it where it is. While it's not perfect, it certainly looks cool. A big thanks to Mikro for thicknessing the body and Erikbojerik for sourcing the body wood. I still have fine detail work to do, so I may not be complete for another 2-4 weeks.

[bluesy]

I think it's cool making your own hardware such as the bridge. Very custom. I like it.

[MiKro]

Just about complete.

Specs:

32" Scale - 24 Medium frets w/ zero fret

2 1/4" Nut - 3" Bridge

Gotoh Tuners

Hipshot Retainers

Padauk Body (2 piece)

Padauk Neck (1 piece)

Padauk Fingerboard

Padauk Ramp

Piezo PVDF ~> PZP-1 Cafe Walter pickup buffer

DR Black Beauties

Custom Logo made by Doug at Parable Guitars

No knobs

The bridge system is self built, I spent about 30 hours getting it where it is. While it's not perfect, it certainly looks cool. A big thanks to Mikro for thicknessing the body and Erikbojerik for sourcing the body wood. I still have fine detail work to do, so I may not be complete for another 2-4 weeks.

>.snip<

Looking good Jon!

MK

[low end fuzz]

looks cool!

...........i guess you like padauk?

[killemall8]

jon!

i thought you fell off the face of the planet!

glad to see your getting awesome stuff like this done.

[Phil Mailloux]

Looks good Jon, is that one of the basses you started more than a year ago or is this a new build?

How's the lutherie school thing, you starting soon?

[Xanthus]

Nice one, Jon! A few questions, though.

-How do you get away with no knobs on the piezo system? Any crackle on plugging/unplugging? Volume swells? Tonal difference?

-What's the bar parallel to the low B? The padauk ramp? What's that?

[Jon]

Thanks guys!

...........i guess you like padauk?

Well, before the build I did... Now I have 3 pairs of orange pants.

Looks good Jon, is that one of the basses you started more than a year ago or is this a new build?

How's the lutherie school thing, you starting soon?

This is a new build, I started around March if I'm not mistaken. The hollow body I started was a project for an Ibanez neck, but I will be selling the Ibanez bass soon. I will use that body with the neck of this build to compare the tonal differences between a hollow body (2.5 lbs) to a dense solid body (7 lbs). I spent about 2 months total work on this build. Work and mistakes put me about 5 months behind schedule.

I'm still saving for school, I'm hoping to shoot for March / May of '09.

-How do you get away with no knobs on the piezo system? Any crackle on plugging/unplugging? Volume swells? Tonal difference?

-What's the bar parallel to the low B? The padauk ramp? What's that?

I don't have the piezo system in yet, but it should be arriving this week. The piezo buffer will just make the pickup see the proper impedance, so you could view this kind of like a passive pickup instrument wired directly to the jack. Except in this instance I'll have a buffer to get the right impedance (a must for piezo). There should be something wired in the buffer system to prevent the crackle sound when plugging/unplugging. Of course there will be a volume difference between switching from this bass to one of my active basses with an 18v system, but I can adjust that on the amp. The tonal difference is what I'm most interested in, hopefully this relatively inexpensive / simple setup will sound nice.

The ramp is similar to a "Willis Ramp". Basically, it's extra space to rest your thumb on. Typically ramp's are located in between the bridge and neck pickups, but since I do not have any magnetic pickups I decided to follow the taper of the B string. The placement is perfect and it's very comfortable to play on thanks to this feature alone.

[ElysianGuitars]

what do you feel you'll get from luthiery school that you aren't already getting building on your own? i don't honestly feel like, with the caliber your builds seem to be, that you even need luthiery school.

[Jon]

Credibility. I'm 21 years old, I usually get the "I've been playing bass longer than you've been alive!" type comments. I want to go to school to graduate at the top of the class to achieve a certificate to show I am incredibly dedicated to this field of work. Job opportunities could be another small part of it even though I'd prefer to work solo, but you never know in this crazy world.

[ElysianGuitars]

Credibility. I'm 21 years old, I usually get the "I've been playing bass longer than you've been alive!" type comments. I want to go to school to graduate at the top of the class to achieve a certificate to show I am incredibly dedicated to this field of work. Job opportunities could be another small part of it even though I'd prefer to work solo, but you never know in this crazy world.

luthiery school won't give you any more credibility than the builds you're already doing. in my opinion, keep doing what you're doing, you're going to get to school and find you aren't learning anything. my certificate from roberto-venn means nothing to most people, and if it does mean anything to anyone, its that they think that i think i'm a master luthier because i went to roberto-venn, and a lot people who come out of there tend to have that attitude. i'd really think it over, cause its really not worth all that money if you already have the skills. nothing gives you more credibility than the guitars you're already building. and i gotta say man, i've trucked my guitars to all the shops around here, trying to get in as a tech, and none of them are interested, the only way i've gotten to make money off what i do is going solo, and i'm glad i did. going to roberto-venn helped me a bit, because i didn't know anything about fret work, or much about the actual construction of a guitar, hell i even got more guitars built than anyone in my class, but if i were where you are right now, i'd have never gone, it wouldn't even be a thought in my mind. hell ask mike sherman what he thinks of roberto-venn... its part of the reason there are too many luthiers out there, and its hard to find a job.

also, once you graduate, it doesn't matter if your top of the class, you don't get anything special out of that, and no one cares in the outside world what you graduated at. there were some guys who didn't even complete the basic course requirements at roberto-venn and still graduated. i'm not sure where you're planning on going, but if its RV, i'd consider somewhere else, that school is a bit of a joke overall...

Edited September 16, 2008 by ElysianGuitars

[low end fuzz]

that was probbally the worst advise ive read;

i only got about half way thru;

if you got nothing out of a course, you must not be a very good student;

even if you only learn one thing in an entire semester it was worth it;

learning others methods and history in a practical setting is only positive;

aswell going to a chool with info and techniques to share profit everyone , plus in a setting that could help you elaborate on ideas with tools and materials you might not have a chance to come into contact with on your own;

aswell as, you could try out everything youve ever seen or ''learned'' on the internet in an attempt to debunk methods and myths, but to be in a class with 8-12 or whatever amount of people trying all sorts of things, you get the hands on/first person experience without doing ALL the work;

if you think the school your in is a rip-off and they cant show you anything, drop out and find another school; if they cant teach you anything, drop out and start your own school; cause anyone with that much information can be the most powerful man in luthiery!

not trying to be tooo serious, but that irked me

[ElysianGuitars]

that was probbally the worst advise ive read;

i only got about half way thru;

if you got nothing out of a course, you must not be a very good student;

even if you only learn one thing in an entire semester it was worth it;

learning others methods and history in a practical setting is only positive;

aswell going to a chool with info and techniques to share profit everyone , plus in a setting that could help you elaborate on ideas with tools and materials you might not have a chance to come into contact with on your own;

aswell as, you could try out everything youve ever seen or ''learned'' on the internet in an attempt to debunk methods and myths, but to be in a class with 8-12 or whatever amount of people trying all sorts of things, you get the hands on/first person experience without doing ALL the work;

if you think the school your in is a rip-off and they cant show you anything, drop out and find another school; if they cant teach you anything, drop out and start your own school; cause anyone with that much information can be the most powerful man in luthiery!

not trying to be tooo serious, but that irked me

blow it out your ass dude. i did more work than most anyone there, i got a lot out of it, but a guy like jon wouldn't. you've got the worst reading comprehension of anyone on the entire internet. its not worth dumping over 10 grand into, especially if you only learn one thing. the scope of the course is so limited, anything you learn beyond it is things you have to figure out on your own. 30 people in one class, and there is only 3 construction methods for electrics, and only 1 for acoustic, you don't get to try anything, its carefully controlled, thats why all the guitars you tend to see on the RV site are standard fender/gibson/prs type stuff, thats what they teach. you're entire post irked me, you're entirely ignorant on the subject, and it was all just subjective garbage. get real.

[mattharris75]

Great looking bass, Jon! What is the finish on it? A few coats of tru oil?

[Jon]

A few coats of danish oil to bring out the figure, but none of that translates well with the pictures I've taken. I'm still not complete with the finish, so it'll look much better when complete.

[WezV]

i really like it, so simple and curvy

[Phil Mailloux]

Interesting couple of posts from Elysian Guitars. I'm surprised at his opinion of lutherie schools. I've never been to one myself but if I had the cash (and no wife and no mortgage) I'd seriously think about it. Even though I've been building instruments for more than 5 years and have collected a humoungeous library of lutherie DVD's and books.

The way I see it these schools will teach you at least how to work in pro workshops, time management, business side of lutherie, how to build jigs, how to eveluate the quality of instruments ect... These are all things that would be very hard or very long to learn on your own.

What I'm missing in my own development as a luthier is someone to answer my questions. And I'm not talking about "how do I install a truss rod" type questions but business, quality and "jigs to make your work go faster" type questions. You'd get a right answer from a pro that's owned his shop for 10+ years. I've learned the most in this craft by just looking at a couple of pro shops and how they used their jigs and how the shop was setup. Building a guitar is the easy part. Doing it cost-effectively is the hard part.

[ElysianGuitars]

Interesting couple of posts from Elysian Guitars. I'm surprised at his opinion of lutherie schools. I've never been to one myself but if I had the cash (and no wife and no mortgage) I'd seriously think about it. Even though I've been building instruments for more than 5 years and have collected a humoungeous library of lutherie DVD's and books.

The way I see it these schools will teach you at least how to work in pro workshops, time management, business side of lutherie, how to build jigs, how to eveluate the quality of instruments ect... These are all things that would be very hard or very long to learn on your own.

What I'm missing in my own development as a luthier is someone to answer my questions. And I'm not talking about "how do I install a truss rod" type questions but business, quality and "jigs to make your work go faster" type questions. You'd get a right answer from a pro that's owned his shop for 10+ years. I've learned the most in this craft by just looking at a couple of pro shops and how they used their jigs and how the shop was setup. Building a guitar is the easy part. Doing it cost-effectively is the hard part.

the "business" portion of roberto-venn, was about 1 day long out of the entire 5 month course, and was so vague, i honestly got nothing from it. you can learn about jigs online, they don't have a whole lot of different jigs there, and time management, like i said, some people didnt' even complete the course requirements, the school is pretty relaxed, which, while not a bad thing, doesn't really do anything to make people finish their work. you've probably learned more in 5 years of building than you'd learn in the 5 months at roberto-venn. i've been doing my own repair work on my instruments for 12 years(10 years before i went to RV), so in that portion of the class, it was just more practice for me, nothing new. in the end, its your money, but having been there myself, and having talked to other people who have gone there, and other people who have hired people who went to RV, these are my opinions, and i'm definitely entitled to them.

Edited September 16, 2008 by ElysianGuitars

[Phil Mailloux]

You definitely are. From your posts though, I'd reconsider Roberto-Venn if I were to go since there's so many school's out there. I recently checked out Bryan Galoup's school on their website. I have to say I liked what I saw. They seem to spend a good amount of time teaching you about as much repair/building/management. There's a couple of youtube vids going around about his school too. It seems interesting.

Jon, which school are you thinking of going to?

[jmrentis]

Very nice Jon, glad to see you around!!! That project came out very nice, bridge is very cool, woods are excellent, and love the black strings on there. I was experimenting a bit with different finishes and tried something that I liked and might fit here, not 100% done though yet with the experiment. Anyhow, I had done a bit with a good amount of coats of walnut oil or danish oil, I'll have to go look, anyhow, it looked great, but didn't offer the depth I wanted and recently I started testing with Tru-oil and I decided to try adding some to that piece since the other oil never built up at all. Well, it looked great once I added even one later of Tru-Oil and now a couple more coats in looks even better. Still I want to make sure the adhesion is permanent, if not a barriar coat of shellac would be in order. Either way it might be worth considering here, it really was nice looking. Anyhow, great stuff as per usual Jon and hope to see you around a bit more. Jason

[ElysianGuitars]

You definitely are. From your posts though, I'd reconsider Roberto-Venn if I were to go since there's so many school's out there. I recently checked out Bryan Galoup's school on their website. I have to say I liked what I saw. They seem to spend a good amount of time teaching you about as much repair/building/management. There's a couple of youtube vids going around about his school too. It seems interesting.

Jon, which school are you thinking of going to?

there are definitely other schools worth considering, i didn't really find out about others until i was already at roberto-venn. there are some schools that are much longer too, and i'd imagine you'd get much more out of a school that isn't a very compressed 5 months.

[Phil Mailloux]

Here's the Galloup video I was talking about.

It's 30 minutes long, shows his shop/factory in detail and talks about his school. The school part though starts at about 23 minutes into the video.

[ElysianGuitars]

Here's the Galloup video I was talking about.

It's 30 minutes long, shows his shop/factory in detail and talks about his school. The school part though starts at about 23 minutes into the video.

so thats at a community college? seems like you could also take business classes while there, this vid is pretty cool so far.

[Phil Mailloux]

I just checked out their website and I have to say that I was a bit shocked at their prices though. $17,500 for the 24 week class In their defence, that does include a free room for the duration of the class plus material for four instruments (including an archtop!)

What did R-V charge for their 5 month class?

[low end fuzz]

blow it out your ass dude. i did more work than most anyone there, i got a lot out of it, but a guy like jon wouldn't. you've got the worst reading comprehension of anyone on the entire internet. its not worth dumping over 10 grand into, especially if you only learn one thing. the scope of the course is so limited, anything you learn beyond it is things you have to figure out on your own. 30 people in one class, and there is only 3 construction methods for electrics, and only 1 for acoustic, you don't get to try anything, its carefully controlled, thats why all the guitars you tend to see on the RV site are standard fender/gibson/prs type stuff, thats what they teach. you're entire post irked me, you're entirely ignorant on the subject, and it was all just subjective garbage. get real.

Elaysian; I'm gonna go ahead and appolagize for the 'critique' of your post, because it sounds like im attacking you,

but that wasnt the point, i was pissed off that someone would discount a 'real' education as opose to doing whatever you want; i wasnt calling you lazy or stupid etc. but if your not getting what you paid for, you have to be smart enough to leave;

you have to learn how to build the classics so you understand the basics of solid body instruments; just because it dosent have pointy horns with blood splatter paint job doesent mean the setup or boundries of hardware changes;

and when you graduate anyhting to do with instruments ,stores and shops do care,

but since you told me to blow it out my ass, im sure that will blow over your head;

sorry jon for hijacking;

but go to school if you can afford it; research by visiting and talking to current and graduate students; and when they have negative things to say, make sure you check out the work they are producing. good luck