Wretched Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Can't believe people had been arguing about the shape. It's lovely and unique. Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Mockups are mockups. When instruments get taken into their final shaping, the details and finer elements of formed are then incorporated. I use CAD a hell of a lot but when it comes down to it, you can't easily substitute hand shaping and finessing with a simple computer model. Same as neck profiles, cutaways and shaping carves....seeing how light plays over curves makes a big difference.... I have enough trust in Hoogle's abilities based on his previous builds to pull some nice instruments out of this. Go go go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Mockups are mockups. When instruments get taken into their final shaping, the details and finer elements of formed are then incorporated. I use CAD a hell of a lot but when it comes down to it, you can't easily substitute hand shaping and finessing with a simple computer model. Same as neck profiles, cutaways and shaping carves....seeing how light plays over curves makes a big difference.... I have enough trust in Hoogle's abilities based on his previous builds to pull some nice instruments out of this. Go go go. Tru dat. I'm a believer. I built a git with a similar shape although the curves were balanced to my taste....and it came in second in GOTM to a Hoog built git. When all is said and done he makes beautiful instruments. I really like the designs of Henri's guitars that he has shown so far. They are well balanced and flow nicely. And I've seen a number of AF's guitars on here over the years and they've all been stunning. There's no accounting for taste, there are innumerable concepts of beauty....and ain't that a wonderful thing! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I've found mock-ups can be misleading as well. I've re-proportioned my Marlin shape 3 times now because the way it looks in CAD isn't always a perfect representation of how it will look in person. The first time she was too hippy. Then the one I'm working now I've decided I went too far the other direction. So now, in the newest iteration of the shape I brought the horn and upper bout in a little more again for a happy medium between the overly hippy version 1 and the too-wide upper bout version 2. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Someone's own shape is something that can't be wrong. It can be disliked, but it isn't wrong unless the person creating the design says so. I think this design is well done. With guitars having been around for so long, just coming up with something original is tough. I just finished a prototype of my own design, and working out the finer points in a design is something that one spends a lot of time on, so saying it's wrong is to assume that the individual didn't invest much time in the design. Saying you don't like it only means it's not your cup of tea. I must admit that I like slightly wacky control layouts (not symmetric or whatever) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 for other people who dont know, we've already had this conversation. some people really like this design, as well as a couple of others iv done, whilst others (including you) really dont. as i said before, you cant please everyone. some people think paris hilton is "hot". i think she looks like shes been hit repeatedly with a shovel. and so on and so forth The lack of symmetry is what I like about it...kind of "Chaos" in a guitar...Picasso's look weird to me though so go figure... On another note,I think Paris is extremely hot..not for her money or fame,just because if I saw her walking down the street in a ragged pair of pants and a T shirt with a ponytail I would want her based purely on looks.I think some people hate based on perceived personality or the spoiled act...but I know that she is an attractive woman...I see no shovel marks at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I apologize the harsh words. I could have said it more nicely. I really think these will be fine instruments. I have absolutely no doubt about that. The upper bout is not wrong. It could be better balanced though, and the un-continuous curves do look unintentional. But like said you have every right to do it the way you want. And I should shut up. Sorry about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) I've found mock-ups can be misleading as well. I've re-proportioned my Marlin shape 3 times now because the way it looks in CAD isn't always a perfect representation of how it will look in person. The first time she was too hippy. Then the one I'm working now I've decided I went too far the other direction. So now, in the newest iteration of the shape I brought the horn and upper bout in a little more again for a happy medium between the overly hippy version 1 and the too-wide upper bout version 2. Chris Same goes for things which really need manhandling in the real world like plane totes and buns. I apologize the harsh words. I could have said it more nicely. I really think these will be fine instruments. I have absolutely no doubt about that. The upper bout is not wrong. It could be better balanced though, and the un-continuous curves do look unintentional. But like said you have every right to do it the way you want. And I should shut up. Sorry about this. Be quiet and get some sleep Henri. It took me a long time to get used to Finnish direct to-the-pointness. The only thing I would have left out is the word "wrong" though. Your re-mockup takes the shape into more familiar LP/PRS territory which I think Hoogle is (quite rightly) working away from. It's very difficult to design singlecut guitars without leaning towards the proportions of Les Pauls but that is only natural since the LP design works well and is very commonplace in our consciousnesses. Edited January 15, 2012 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 There might be a cultural difference like Carl pointed out Finns are direct-to-the-point... I have a university degree in industrial design and over 13 years working experience in product, service and user interface design. While all that alone does not make anyone a good designer it gives some understanding of form and shape. But it also it makes me understand you don't need all that to make great design. That should also make me to think what to write and not to write what I think... Oh, and I know I can be wrong too and given good arguments I am happy to admit it. We come from different worlds, I guess. In the design world if you get that barely noticeable nod from your colleague you know you have done a good job. Sometimes you don't get even that but it doesn't mean you have done a bad job. Because if you have you will always hear about that. And it's not "I don't like this or that". There is always argumentation too. Critique can sometimes be very harsh and we can long argument about some tiny small detail that no one would ever even notice. It is not easy to remember that not everyone can take it. I try to be more constructive with my critique and be more exact and clarify what I mean. My design thinking is very much Scandinavian and I know very well that is not universal thinking. Anyhow the international design world shares some principles and rules that are good to know. When you know you should try the limits are break them. It is very much an advisable thing to try the limits and go away from usual patterns, i.e. the LP/PRS shape here. It is not an easy task. LP shape is designed very close to "golden ratio" which makes the shape pleasing and easy, but when you break something you easily ruin the whole thing. Like I said before you have done some very good thinking here. This should be it for now, keep up with the good work. /henri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avi ten Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hello to all We, beginners, planning without CAD, carving without CNC, makers of not perfect guitars, makers of unusual designs, enjoy and love what we are doing and thus we are proud abut our disability to create balanced and perfect guitars. Avi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 My designs were done on a sketch pad with Crayola colored pencils then painstakingly recreated in MS Paint and then again painstakingly recreated in inkscape in full size vector format and smoothed out. I think I would rather do it all by hand than learn to use a cnc. That sounds like college material to me. Good luck on the rest of this build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Speak for yourself. Engineering and artistry may be polar opposites but in the right combination are beautiful companions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 its really hard to take pictures of the carve. it looks really square edged, but its all curvy i promise. the bit on the flat part that looks like a bit of torn out wood is just that. it will either be sanded out with sanding, or it can be filled if not as this ones the goldtop. its not as deep as it looks in the pics though also, stupid me buggered up the fretboards. both of them!! so i got new ones which are just waiting for binding, then sanding, then fretting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not sure how you need CAD and CNC to make balanced, artistic, proportional and aesthetically pleasing guitar designs? I did just fine with CAD for years, and continue to without CNC. Don't let a lack of tools be an excuse for poor design or craftsmanship. I'm not saying you do, but your post entered that territory and I wanted to let future noobs reading this know that you can indeed build amazing guitars with minimal tools, etc. I like having more tools now a days, but I had a great time and did fine before then too. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Not sure how you need CAD and CNC to make balanced, artistic, proportional and aesthetically pleasing guitar designs? I did just fine with CAD for years, and continue to without CNC. Don't let a lack of tools be an excuse for poor design or craftsmanship. I'm not saying you do, but your post entered that territory and I wanted to let future noobs reading this know that you can indeed build amazing guitars with minimal tools, etc. I like having more tools now a days, but I had a great time and did fine before then too. Chris Not sure whether you meant me or not, but I'll wade in anyway. I never advocated CNC directly (not that I can remember) but I believe that the geometric possibilities that come from using CAD are a great complement to traditional organic drawing and hand drafting. These things are a relatively modern invention in comparison to the guitar, and they definitely haven't revamped the instrument except for perhaps in the manufacturing sector. I think that if it is productive and a great tool, then by all means use it. Whether that be a new type of rasp, a CAD/visualisation package or whatever. I'm right in the middle of "minimal tools" right here as I type this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 both fretboards are done - again - (not glued on in the pic, just pinned), and the goldtop has its pickup routes done. both have the back cavities and cover recesses with the inserts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 the tap tone of the goldtop was brighter than the burst, and after carving the neck and doing the back contours its darker. hmm. we'll see if the burst darkens after its had the same treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 TEASE!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 just a test. its really hard to take pictures of it, but it looks really nice. it'll be a while before its on a guitar though, far too cold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 got a sealer coat on them both. heres the flamey one. its yummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooglebug Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 after refinishing a tele, reshaping a body and halfway to making a neck, i thought id get some sparkly action going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 What grit do you sand up to before finishing? That flamed top looks smooth as all hell! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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