A Single Cut Multi Scale

[killemall8]

Definitely think you should have hit that with grey primer before you shot the color.

[Ripthorn]

I've never shot automotive stuff before, so pardon my ignorance, but what does the grey primer accomplish, aside from requiring fewer coats to get a full hide? I was under the impression that several coats of color over any base color will eventually get to the same color. Is this not so? In any case, it's too late, I kind of got caught in that case where I can spray without the primer now, or wait 7 months before the weather will good enough to spray again.

[LightninMike]

The reason for using the primer is to give the paint a consistent finish to stick to.... it has less to do with making certain that you use less to cover any filler .....

In looking at your finish as it is, there are a few areas that seem raised.... set up a light and look at the shadows and the way they fall across the body.... this will help you getting the finish you really want..... and be certain that it is flawless.... with all the work you have done so far, and very high quality work i might add, you will want to ensure that your finish is perfect or you won't be satisfied....

You have time to work on it... Keep up the great work

[westhemann]

You'll be okay.The grey primer would have just saved you expensive extra color coats.

Next time you use bondo,go for the good stuff....the can where you mix the hardener in.For one thing,you can get it in a more gray/white color which won't be so hard to cover,for another it dries tougher(and more quickly) and sands to a finer finish.

In case you are wondering,I have only used it on one guitar,way back(not that it's a bad thing),but in my line of work,part of which is installing steel handrails on buildings including the ones on the capital grounds in Austin,where everything must be beautiful or they won't accept it,the real stuff is the only thing that gets the job done

[westhemann]

By the way,if I were to use bondo on a guitar with a solid color,I would use it like a pore filler and cover the entire body,then sand away most of it.That is how you get the nice consistent surface.

(tonal voodoo)There are many who consider that heresy on a guitar,but if it's done right it can look great and there won't be a thick enough layer to really affect much.(tonal voodoo)

There are many high end guitars being played on stages right now around the world that have a thick layer of substrate below the finish,and in a lot of those cases that substrate is equivalent to bondo..I know because I have refinished a few of my own way in the past when I believed getting that layer off would "improve the tone"..it made a difference you could hear,but it was in no way "better"

I do agree it seems as if you didn't get all the lumps out,might just be a trick of the light...but it's not too late

[Ripthorn]

When I was doing all the sanding, I set up a work light to give me a really harsh raking light to try and get all the minor imperfections out, but you are right that there are still some there. By not too late, do you mean sand back potentially through the color coat and get everything? This poplar seems kind of tough to carve because it is so soft. I do agree that the lumps need to come out, I'm just a little bummed that this won't get finished until May (starting tomorrow, it is not likely that we will hit 60 degrees again for a very long time). But you guys are right, I won't be happy until it is all squared away and looking right. I just have to figure out how to do it....

[Prostheta]

Although late in the process, I would have advised scraping rather than carving. A gooseneck scraper is the ideal tool for working within the concave areas of a carve such as this to cut down high areas.

Bondo or equivalent products are good products if used sparingly and for good reason rather than as a rule.

Primer coats are also very useful and cheap ways of checking your substrate's curves or flatness. One trick is to lay down a thin mist coat of black primer or even colour coat over the raw wood (hold the can further away than you would usually do) to show low and high spots as you sand the carve. A hard flat sanding block carries this out on the flat areas (of course) whilst a bendier material (such as a school eraser or a cork block) works within the carve as it conforms to the shape. After this you need to lay down a consistent and solid primer coat.

Primer is an essential intermediary coat between the substrate and the colour coats. Primer grips to wood and paint grips to primer. Paint does not grip wood well. I would not regard it as optional in any way, shape or form. At the very least, it provides an opaque basecoat to work from. Most importantly it ensures top coat adhesion and makes the final finish durable. Primer provides a barrier between relatively solvent-heavy colour coats and the wood, which would otherwise absorb the solvents instead of letting them dissipate outwards into the atmosphere. Meanwhile, your badly cured paint falls off.

I would stop with the paintwork and go back to ensuring that your wood is perfectly even. You can't fix that in the mix later and this is what will cause you to kick yourself more than anything when the build is complete.

[Ripthorn]

I did shoot several coats of sealer over the wood, so the color is not directly on the wood. I just didn't use primer.

As for stopping the paint work, that's what I will do. I'm just a little disappointed that I wasn't able to get it right before getting going on the finish work. I suppose my question is whether I should just treat the trouble spots, or if I should strip it all off (not what I would prefer). Any advice is welcome, as I have never done this kind of carved top before.

[westhemann]

I can see there are quite a few differing opinions on this,but let me just say that "paint" is just clear with color added,and many people on this very forum have great success with applying clear coats directly to wood.I particularly use a catalytic 2 part varnish which I sometimes use CA as a pore filler,and sometimes I don't...depending on the wood.I have never had adhesion problems.It is meant to be applied directly to wood or over a sealer,either one is fine

Some types of paints require a primer.You have to know what you are using and what it requires.

Finishes are very misunderstood and there is a ton of specific info on specific products that get bandied about as a "general rule" when that was never intended.You would do best to find a specific product line that does everything YOU want it to do and follow the instructions specific to that product and ignore generalities

[westhemann]

I also like to use primer as flavoring for soups...

[Maiden69]

If I was working on that guitar, I would go ahead and touch up the entire top. It looked good bare, but as soon as you painted it, all the flaws on the carve showed up big time. Get a grinder and some flap wheels and practice on some scrap pieces. Once I got use to them, they are the best tool I have found to shaping. Once you get it close to perfect, sand it all the way to 400 and prime it. Get a good primer also if yo u are using automotive paints. Don't go with cheap rattle can stuff and have the paint lift it or end up with a chemical reaction that will make the primer turn to rubber.

Like Wes said, also don't use that "glazing putty" it is the worst thing you can use. It is intended for filling up pin holes, and not contouring. Get a 2 part glaze, Dolphin glaze is cheap, and flows nicely for guitars. Bondo is good too, but you have to know how to spread it as it is less forgiving as glaze, with glaze having the added bonus that it sands as easy as primer does.

Use guide coats once you prime it to check on low/high/un even areas. Once all is good, then paint the guitar. All you should need is may be 1 dust coat and 1 full coat of color and 1 tack coat and may be 2-3 medium coats of 2K poly.

[Ripthorn]

I shaped the top with a grinder, but obviously didn't do as well as I hoped. I am thinking maybe I will start off with a cork block and some 220 and work on the problem areas and see where that takes me. Thoughts?

[ScottR]

That is a good start. When I'm sanding my carved tops I start with a rigid block with leather or cork face and sand all the way around the contours--just like you were tracing the edges of the routed ledges you made. You want to make long sweeping strokes as opposed to short ones concentrated in small areas. This is how you get the high and low areas leveled out. The rigid block is small--maybe 1.5" x 2.5" and it will follow the curves as you go around the contours. Then I go over the same area with the same grit using a sponge block that comes with the micromesh sheets. This cleans up the curves. You pretty much need both and the long strokes to get a nice level contour.

SR

[LightninMike]

To mirror what the others have said, you will want to refinish the entire top.... if you use automotive paints and then go to polish them, you can wind up with witness lines from the different layers....

Take your time and get the finish you want.... the one that makes you say: Yes, I MADE THAT

[Ripthorn]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just a note, this is lacquer that fully burns into itself, but I will still have a go at the top and see what I can do. I think I will just need to step back for a few days and not think about it, then approach it with a level head again.

[LightninMike]

As far as that being a lacquer, it is, but it isn't..... if it were a traditional lacquer it would not be ready to final finish in 36-48 hours..... BUT, the Duplicolor paints do blend well with each other..... Be careful using a traditional clear lacquer to top coat; it would be best to use the Duplicolor clear

(I dig this guitar and the time you have put into it, and really want to see it be everything it can be)

[Ripthorn]

Necro bump! I started working on this again about a month ago. I sanded down the entire top, got rid of all the glazing putty (man, that was a dumb idea) and refinished. The top is still not absolutely perfect, but pretty darn good if you ask me. I made the pickup rings, finished the bridge, etc. Anyway, I need to take some good pics, but here is one crappy one to tide you over:

[Anthony]

That is incredibly cool. I'd play the hell out of it.

[Ripthorn]

I haven't been able to put it down. Plays effortlessly, sounds great, and is so amazingly comfortable. The multiscale neck just plays so naturally.