SwedishLuthier Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'm all for people selling their builds and all, but how is this not an outright copy of an Ormsby? Sully Ok, looks like there's a bit of an issue over my headstock design here... Similar comments were also said on the Ultimate Guitar forum too. Basically, as I explained there, it is extremely difficult to come up with totally original designs nowadays as there are so many already, and in this case, it's purely coincidental and I would have no intention of deliberately ripping off one of Ormsby's designs. Although I would recognise his 6-inline headstock shape, I had not seen his 3x3 shape (of which mine resembles) enough until I Googled it yesterday to consciously copy it. With this coming to light in such early days of me using this particular headstock design, I will be withdrawing it as an option on my custom and stock builds and making my way "back to the drawing board" in an attempt to come up with an alternative 3x3 shape for Serpentine Guitars. Ormsby; if you're reading this, my apologies for any concerns or offence I may have caused. . That is IMHO a really mature and humble responce. Cudos to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGtars Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'm all for people selling their builds and all, but how is this not an outright copy of an Ormsby? Sully Not to be contentious here, but both are much identical to a PRS headstock with "slight" modifications. Id say they are both equally different from each other as they are from a PRS! I mean... cmon...http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/116/1347db8d01024971b1302369a8f3ef75/l.jpg Vshttp://www.obmart.com/images/MickEquipment/PRSArtistHeadstock.jpg That aside, the build is looking sick! I see exactly what you're saying, and this is the problem when it comes to designing new shapes. What doesn't help is when you subconsciously incorporate an existing shape that you've seen and like. Well, I'm back to the drawing board now, it's not easy so going to stick with my 6-inline head now - which I've been told looks like ibanez headstock?! ... http://www.serpentineguitars.com/img/800x316/contact.jpg I'm all for people selling their builds and all, but how is this not an outright copy of an Ormsby? Sully Ok, looks like there's a bit of an issue over my headstock design here... Similar comments were also said on the Ultimate Guitar forum too. Basically, as I explained there, it is extremely difficult to come up with totally original designs nowadays as there are so many already, and in this case, it's purely coincidental and I would have no intention of deliberately ripping off one of Ormsby's designs. Although I would recognise his 6-inline headstock shape, I had not seen his 3x3 shape (of which mine resembles) enough until I Googled it yesterday to consciously copy it. With this coming to light in such early days of me using this particular headstock design, I will be withdrawing it as an option on my custom and stock builds and making my way "back to the drawing board" in an attempt to come up with an alternative 3x3 shape for Serpentine Guitars. Ormsby; if you're reading this, my apologies for any concerns or offence I may have caused. . That is IMHO a really mature and humble responce. Cudos to you! Thanks SwedishLuthier. I have also been in touch with Perry who has been really cool about the whole thing... really nice bloke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) For sure, making a new headstock is certainly a difficult task. Making a new headstock that is BOTH appealing AND usable AND hasn't been done before... well, I wish you luck sir! That's not the point though. A Yamaha Pacifica headstock (for example) is derived from the Fender Strat style. It doesn't mean that a headstock which highly resembles it can be defended by saying they are both Stratish Well, we can agree to disagree on this one. They both clearly use the same inspiration off of PRS, so to compare them to each other seems silly to me, especially with the clear differences in style (Serp is ADDING material, ormsby is REMOVING). That said, it is what is at this point, I don't feel like this was anything malicious or foul minded. I just don't feel its fair to call this guy a "rip off" of ormsby is all. Edited June 11, 2013 by bob123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGtars Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 For sure, making a new headstock is certainly a difficult task. Making a new headstock that is BOTH appealing AND usable AND hasn't been done before... well, I wish you luck sir! That's not the point though. A Yamaha Pacifica headstock (for example) is derived from the Fender Strat style. It doesn't mean that a headstock which highly resembles it can be defended by saying they are both Stratish Well, we can agree to disagree on this one. They both clearly use the same inspiration off of PRS, so to compare them to each other seems silly to me, especially with the clear differences in style (Serp is ADDING material, ormsby is REMOVING). That said, it is what is at this point, I don't feel like this was anything malicious or foul minded. I just don't feel its fair to call this guy a "rip off" of ormsby is all. Not sure about the PRS "inspiration" but thanks for your support. I will say now that as far as I'm concerned, this matter has been fully addressed directly with Perry Ormsby and I don't really have anything else to say on the matter. New update photos on the build itself will be coming soon - I'm about to do the inlay work (PRS 513 birds... I wonder if this will open up a new debate?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 With so many builders in the world and the fact that a headstock has to follow a basic function over form I'm not surprised that something like this doesnt happen more often. Didnt Fender and Gibson both drew inspiration and derived their headstock designs from existing designs from older 1800's European designs? Again like Bob said its damn hard to come up with an original headstock that hasn't been done before. I for one spent an ungodly amount of time coming up with my design which I think is reasonably unique. I wouldn't be surprised if someday I see an example of something similar that pre-dates my design. Wasn't it Picasso that said "Good artist copy but great artists steal? <---(that outta add fuel to the fire. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Well, a Strat headstock possesses a profile a little like a cello headstock so who knows. I think you mean "artistS" otherwise sound like Tonto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Tonto fix letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGtars Posted June 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Had a spare hour this afternoon to start work on the inlays - design (PRS 513 birds) copied to fretboard (on masking tape), cut out and routed with the Dremel... Should be able to reveal the finished fretboard at the weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 If guitar headstocks were jazz musicians, we'd all be "paying homage". Liking the progress of this one so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 My weekend started early. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGtars Posted June 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 My weekend started early. :-) Haha! Well, I had hoped to have the Paua inlayed by now, but due to moving house in a week's time, everything is up in the air at the moment and it's slowed progress down. Could be a few more days now, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGtars Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 My apologies to those who were following this build. Unfortunately, due to a technical hitch, the build was terminated and the guitar sold in its unfinished state to someone else. Here are the only photos I have available... I have new builds in progress, but find it difficult to fit in time to keep up-to-date online. I hope to get on top of things in 2014, so watch this space! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Sucks for the guy. Looks like a nice rosewood neck and that carve it very clean. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.neckel013 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Nice work, I feel the technical problem that occurred? just thought the lack of a photo guitar full body, front and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 What happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGtars Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Just pinched these off the eBay listing (sorry for grainy quality)... The problem was contractual, nothing to do with the guitar or workmanship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Should have finished it and put it up as just a spec-built sale IMO. Oh well, someone will make it their joy. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGtars Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Should have finished it and put it up as just a spec-built sale IMO. Oh well, someone will make it their joy. Chris I would've done had it not been in the workshop since March. To be honest, there'd be no real profit once I'd paid out for hardware and finish, etc. I was very happy with the guitar itself, especially the Ash, Flame Maple and Rosewood combo, but I had to sell it on the first chance I had to recoup my costs, which I just about did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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