Project Lucy-- my first

[MKGBass]

Things are developing, and looking nice while their at it!

[GregP]

Note:

A few more things I haven't mentioned until now, but are VERY important:

1. Always wear safety glasses. I should also be wearing safer clothing, but I never do without the glasses.

2. Use earplugs if you have them. I worked the first time without, and the high-pitched whine of the router made my ears ring for the night. I quickly got some earplugs.

3. ALWAYS unplug your power equipment before fiddling with things. Like when I was sanding the bit, or when I tighten the collet up. I ALWAYS ALWAYS unplug my router.

[MKGBass]

Good advice, I would take it a step further and say wear safety GOGGLES. I had glasses, but the router and belt sander create so much wind that chips and dust make their way around.

I scratched my left eye twice in a week, and then decided that it was time to make some changes.

[GregP]

Yes!

Actually, although I said the word "glasses" I am in fact using goggles. With glasses I would still feel a bit vulnerable.

Thanks for the comment, btw; I hadn't seen it as we must've been posting at the same time.

Greg

PS, mdw3332-- how's the guitar coming?

[krazyderek]

looks like i missed this thread until now, interesting to see some pictures of your work greg, my only critic is that if you were going to go with such a round lower end of the guitar, i would have used a circle maker with my router to make that part of the body template (or body it's self) to get a cleaner line in that section. Also get some fostner bits so you can drill bigger pilot holes for your router bits

Keep us posted

[GregP]

Not a bad idea with the circle cutter.

Things are looking fairly clean (there was one pic previously that didn't have the limba's outline completed, and it was WAY off, if that's the one you noticed), but there are a few .5 mm anomalies here and there, which I'll end up having to smooth out with sandpaper. In person, it's really tough to find them, but the perceptive eye can see a few wee deviations here and there. Luckily the deviations are symmetrical.

Nothing new to post. I've been waiting for parts from Uni Jems (backordered; not Brian's fault) and LMI (that damned radiusing jig/machine of theirs that's been offline). Theoretically I could be cutting the channel for my truss rod, but I'm still mulling over how best to accomplish that with the tools I have. I could also be making the neck template, but that one's got me a bit stumped as well. The only other thing i can think of to do at the moment is cut a channel for the pickup wires and glue the top into place.

In the meantime, I made some spool clamps. Also, I picked up some ebony, as it's always been my intention to do something similar to Myka's blue guitar on the top, and it made sense after seeing his guitar to use ebony to anchor the strings on the underside, as well, instead of using ferrules.

Cheers!

Greg

[GregP]

OK,

Well, might as well look for answers here to keep all my 'from being a dumbass to making a guitar' motif going. Plus, it works as a bump for people who don't know anything about my slowly-moving project.

Today, though, no update... and no pics... bummer.

Well, a minor update-- my fingerboard and headplate finally arrived from LMI, and they're pretty nice. The ebony fingerboard is 2nd grade in order to get some streaky bits. As it turns out, the streaking is very even, and a very dark brown, so it's still a nice dark fingerboard. Of course, the headplate is made from a different tree or part of the tree, so it doesn't really match, but it IS more 'classic ebony' in its darkness and uniformity, so that's still a good thing.

Now, to the problem: I am unsure how to procede and I have an unnatural paranoia of doing something "out of turn" which will make it impossible or difficult to do later. Here's a list of what remains other than finishing:

Guitar body

-------------

-Carving the top. I'm hoping to do the 'topographical map' way of carving, but it's throwing me off a bit, and I'm wondering if there's a better solution. I don't mind spending days and days doing it, so time's not a factor. However, I don't want to hand sand through 5/8" of maple, and I'm not doing very well when I've used the scraper on practice pieces.

-Routing the humbucker cavities

-Creating an electronics cavity (there's the hollow bit already, but I haven't cut out an access hole)

-Drilling / dremeling holes for the pots and the blade switch

-Fitting the jack (and?) routing a channel for the wiring if necessary

-Gluing the top. I imagine this'll be one of the last things, and the procedure's pretty fool-proof... add glue, line up, and clamp.

-Neck pocket. Incidentally, I have to decide real soon whether to stick to my bolt-on plan, or go mortise-and-tenon

-binding

Guitar Neck

-------------

-everything except the scarf joint, which is complete

The only thing I need to do first for sure, that I know of, is fit the truss rod. Everything else, I'm not sure the best order.

-taper

-profile

-attaching fingerboard

-inlaying fingerboard

-binding

-attaching headplate

-shaping headstock

Do I attach the fingerboard before tapering? Or taper the neck and use it as a guide for the fingerboard? I'm worried that if I try to use my router on the ebony, I'm going to crack and chip it to ****.

Anyhow, if that's too much to ask, and too much to sort through (I HAVE both the Hiscock and Koch books, but I'm getting burned out on them), then you could limit the focus of your answers to the best 'order' in which to do the neck. That'll narrow things down enough to not be a total pain in the ass.

Incidentally, I have absolutely no budget left for tools, but I don't want to screw up my guitar, either; so if it means waiting until I can afford a binding router bit, I shall do so.

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

Greg

[monkey69962000]

thats a cool tuitorial. please send more pics when you can

[truerussian558]

pictures would be apreciated

[daveq]

Wow, I forgot about this one. You have a great way of presenting this stuff - you don't seem to have that attitude of "here, you can see how perfectly I did this, and here - we did something incredible also, ..." - you "keep it real" and I like it!

One thing that I can offer is on the subject of the ebony fretboard and tapering issue:

I have done this several ways in the past. My favorite method, by far, is to leave the ebony about 1/16 over-sized and glue it to an already shaped neck (the back of the neck still flat - not rounded over yet).

Once the glue has cured, I take it to the router table. I use a pattern bit (with the bearing on the bottom) and adjust the height appropriately. I check the rotation (because I can never remember ) and plan the way I will hold it and move the piece. I like to feed it against the rotation as opposed to climb milling (with the rotation). Climb milling is supposed to help avoid tearing out but it makes me very nervous when I've got my hands over a router table and an exposed bit. For that reason, I go against the rotation (the normal routing direction).

If there is an overhang, I have to remember to stop short of it and do that part by hand. It's not a big deal - it goes quickly. As I move the neck along, I try not to go too quickly. I'm not concerned much with burning but more concerned with tearing out.

In the 4 necks that I've done this way, only one had a bit of tear out. That was my fault though - I left a little more than 1/8" and moved the neck too quickly. I have never burned the neck or ebony by moving slowly.

The nice thing about ebony is that even if you do have a problem, you're mostly likely going to be able to fix it easily and it will not be noticeable.

Other methods I've tried are sanding the ebony flush to a maple neck (an awful mess but it does work). The main problem I have with this is the ebony dust is constantly contaminating the maple. Routing doesn't create this. I've also tried using a scraper but it tends to leave dents from where the slots in the fretboard catch the scraper as it goes by.

For those people that shape the fretboard and then route the neck to match - I don't know how they handle the overhang and heel of the neck - do they pre-shape that part only and then route?

I hope I didn't confuse you with all of this - the point is that I like to taper the neck first (and get the heel shaped the way I want) and then glue a roughly shaped fretboard on. Not THE way, not the ONLY way but the way I like to do it.

Keep those pics comming!

[a bicycle made of anarchy]

great project, just found out about this after the "bump".. i as well would love to see new pics!

[MKGBass]

Ok Greg....Your post as you said was somewhat hard to sort through, here's what I can sort through and my OPINIONS on how you should go about it.

1. I would glue the top and route the binding channel BEFORE you do the carve. I just did a body yesterday this way and it was much more relieving than the hollowbody I am working on in which I am forced to do the channel after the top is carved.

I would also route the pickup cavities before you carve as well. This will give you a flat surface to route on and you wont have to worry about things like hand leveling the router.

2. Since your budget is dead, hmmmm. Do you have a drill press? If so, I suggest you follow Robert Benedetto's method of carving, I'm in the process of my 4th carve using this method and it has come out great so far every time. You just need to drill a series of concentric holes at ascending depths (from the outside). The go back with a chisel and hack away all the extra wood until you have a bunch of very shallow holes on a sloped top...From there I use my belt sander to get rid of the extra, so far this takes about 30-60 minutes, so virtually its hassle free.

3. I generally prefer to do the taper of the neck and fingerboard at the same time. The way derek describes sounds completely logical as well. IN the past I've had problems with trying to level them out and inadvertantly creating curves or dipes in the taper of the neck on accident. Definately profile last either way. I prefer to do the taper with a template and a template bit on my router, and just take small passes until its flush.

4. It MIGHT be simpler to inlay the fingerboard before you attach it. I believe I've seen a couple people on here that have done it this way, though, so far I haven't had a problem doing this after the neck is even profiled. I guess it depends on if you're just doing dots, or you've got something complex in mind.

5. Is there, in fact, an overhang on the end of the fingerboard? If so, you'll probably need to create some sort of guide for a router bit to ride on while you cut the binding channel. I would suggest doing this whole binding step before you do the rounding of the back simply because I think it would be easier to have a flat surface for a bit to ride on.

Other than those things, which are just the way I would go about them, I've loved this project from day one, and I've actually kinda been wondering where you were!

Also, just as a kinda "tips and tricks" thing. Wes showed in one of his threads how he used screws on the outside of an untapered fretboard to keep it from moving while it glued to the neck. This way, accidental sliding that could ruin your intonation is completly prevented. I've found this method very helpful. (thanks wes!)

[GregP]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm a picture fiend, too, so don't worry about that side of things-- as soon as there is anything new to take a picture of, I will do so.

So basically, here's what I'm thinking--

I was planning on binding the neck anyhow, which means that at some point or another, I'll probably be using a binding router bit. So to my mind, the process should go something like this:

-inlay the fingerboard

-glue the fingerboard to the unshaped neck

-taper the neck using a template or jig

-route the binding channel and install the binding

-shape the back of the neck (haven't decided which method yet)

A detail I mentioned earlier but which may have been forgotton is that the fingerboard is already pre-slotted and radiused (15")

As for overhang, I wasn't planning on having any. I almost never go beyond the 15th fret anyhow, so I'm stopping her at 21 or 22 frets, whichever makes it easier to have no overhang.

SO, that means that until I can afford more parts and tools, I'm pretty much screwed, because I don't have my inlays yet. I hate being broke.

Which means I could do a bit of work on the body at least--

From what I can tell, most people are recommending that I just glue'er up and go from there! That means there's at least one tangible step I can get done. I won't be able to do the carve yet (I agree about cutting the binding channel first), leaving me with the following that I can get done:

1. Cut a channel for the pickup wiring into the limba body before gluing the top

2. Glue the top

3. Rout the pickup cavities

4. Create the access panel for the electronics cavities

As for the carving, yes I do have a drill press, but it's one of those small ones and so I may not have full access to the surface of the guitar in order to get the holes drilled in the right places.

On a related note for the carving-- it will be a fairly shallow carve, not a 'holy crap, look at that' kind of carve, but I want it to be symmetrical/uniform, ya know? I was thinking that the topographical map and router idea was very similar to the drill press idea, so I might still stick with that-- the problem I have, though, is that I don't trust my router bit 100%. It is/was a nice Freud bit, but somehow it got dinged.

Also, I suppose I can cut the shape of the headstock pretty much at any point in time, no?

Greg

[MKGBass]

yeah the headstock shape can be cut whenever, it would be easiest if it were cut prior to the shaping of the back of the neck, so you can form the transition to the headstock at the same time you form the back of the neck. However, this isn't necessary, because you can always form that transition later.

How small of a drill press? Mines an 8 incher and I did a carve on an archtop (20"x17") and it worked fine.

[Setch]

Greg, take a look at my Les Paul thread. I show how I bind the neck. I don't recommend routing the binding channel on a glued up neck, I think it adds a lot of difficulty and potential for screw ups to a very simple process. What I do is taper the board ( however you prefer to do it) then use a binding bit in the router table to narrow the board, leaving a millimetre or so for the bearing to run against. I use a block plane to remove this, which leaves the board the correct width. Then I just tape and glue the binding, then scrape everything flush before inlaying and fretting.

I agree with MKG about the binding channel on the body - definately cut before you carve.

[gpcustomguitars]

OK, just my .02.

About carving the top - I do it like this (presuming you want to do a LP-type of top=neck angle-pup plane angle mostly flat):

-glue the top onto the base

-get the sides clean

-if you are using a handheld router cut the binding chanell at this point, while the top is still flat, if you plan to have thicker portions of binding (think modern LP cutaway) you'll need few passes starting at the top for the bearing to have something to ride on and going down

-route the binding chanel to it's final thickness, 4-5mm, max 1' wide around the top, you'll need a few passes to do this, and you have the final side thickness established - you need to stop at the ends of the horns

-plane or route off the neck angle plane and the pup plane. I use overhead router, you can check my HP for some pics to get better idea, but you can also use a handheld router on some angled rails - for measurements you can use trigonometry, or just draw it out sideways ( I feel better with that). Using a wider bit helps, but not too wide as it can be too much for the router's bearings - don't ask how I know this Also, use very small steps, you want a fine cut. I do the pup plane first, neck angle second, cause the pup plane is shallower, so less strain on the router.

Now you're all set for hand carving - you can get some more excess material off using the stairstep method you mentioned - but you can perhaps use that material to calibrate your hands and get the feel of the wood until you get close to final specs.

From that point I use a spokeshave for rough stuff, then go with Ibex 10mm, than scrapers, and then hand sanding. Might use a wide chiesel here and there, also a rounded chiesel (no hammer, just scary sharp). Be patient, make some cardboard profiles and check often, you know, like doing a neck. Then you do the binding, and then you can add the recurve if you want. If you do the ABS binding, keep in mind you can glue it with plane acetone, it goes easyer on your fingers than superglue.

About the neck - I taper the fboard, glue it to the still-square neck (also, I do the fretting before rounding it - doesn't rock, and you don't need to worry about dinging the wood, can be held in a wise), cut off the thin excess using a jigsaw, just leave something to scrape/sand off later, then blocks, dots whatever, radius it, fret it, dress the frets, shape the neck. If you're gonna bind it, I'd do it straight after glueing the fboard on, just make sure your fret slots are deep enough, and will stay so after the radiusing. Also, for that I'd use superglue in any case, ABS or not.

Just my way of doing it...good luck!

BR

Goran

[GregP]

Thanks for those VERY helpful replies!

Setch-- I'll check the LP thread, but if I'm visualizing what you're saying correctly, that method of binding the neck not only sounds like a good one, but one more in keeping with my comfort level in how to get things done.

MKG-- I'm not sure what the 8" size refers to for the drill press. It's small. Is that the distance from the bit to the nearest obstacle (the support post or whatever it's called)?

Goran-- thanks for the reply. A few points I won't be able to follow through on, because my fingerboard is already radiused and slotted (by LMI); also, the very last thing I'll be doing on the neck is getting a fret job done... this, I will take to a local guitar wiz to do. He'll be letting me sit in on it and will sort of "teach" me as he goes so that I can possibly do my own fretting for the next guitar.

For the binding, I won't be doing anything fancy whatsoever. In fact, it's barely binding at all, just a single piece of .60 ABS from StewMac with no purfling. I'm not going to worry at all about having some portions wider and/or thicker.

Back to the carving-- I'll tell you all one thing... I wish I had the balls and skill to just take a sander to it like some of the members here do. <grin>

Thanks, all. I have some more research and planning to do. Thankfully, my personal deadline is to have this guitar completed by May 2005, so I have all the time in the world. <laff>

Greg

[Guitarfrenzy]

Your doing a great job.. Keep it up!!

[lucky1]

Edited September 19, 2004 by lucky1

[GregP]

Well, I'm finally starting this one up again. It's still been sitting in bits and pieces, but I finally got the binding router bit on order (I went with the basic one for .60, not the one with the swappable ball bearings), along with some extra binding.

Inspired by Gigabyte's carve, I think I'll try my hand at using an orbital sander instead of doing the 'stepped' carve.

While I'm waiting for the router bit, I can get busy and cut the pickup cavities and neck pocket, but here's a question--

The pickup cavities will be deeper than just the 3/4" top-- would you guys glue the top and THEN rout the whole thing at once, or do you figure I should route "right through" the top and then use it as a guide for the Limba? I mean, it'll have to be done in multiple passes anyhow.

Man... I'm pretty scared of screwing this step up, but I guess you have to take the plunge at SOME point in time. I guess that's why I've put it off for so long-- I've officially done all the bits that you can't really botch up, and now it's time to REALLY do the difficult work. Even though it looks like I'm 1/3 done, I'm actually only more like 1/8 done when I think about it... wiring... the precision routing that's coming up... the paint job... inlays.

Maybe I'm about 1/10 done, actually.

Greg

[GregP]

Actually, one more set of related questions--

I was thinking of switching to a hard-tail Hipshot bridge instead of the recessed TOM. But I've only seen them in chrome, and the rest of my guitar is in nickel. SO--

1. Do you think it would throw off the visuals too much if the pickup govers and tuners were nickel, but the bridge was chrome?

2. Has anybody seen a hardtail bridge (that looks at least half decent like the Hipshot) in nickel?

Greg

[Mickguard]

2. Has anybody seen a hardtail bridge (that looks at least half decent like the Hipshot) in nickel?

Greg

←

[GregP]

Hey that's pretty cool. If I don't find nickel, I'll still go with chrome instead, but I have to keep the black one in mind for future projects.

[GregP]

After all that, it's back to the TOM and string-through after all.

So... I got the final tool that I "need" to do this guitar, and now I don't have any more excuses to not continue... sort of...

As mentioned on the Steinberger-copy thread, I'm pretty much quite nervous about effing up my neck. On the bright side, I finally remembered that the wood wasn't all that expensive and that I have permission to screw it up. I just don't want to have to do the scarf joint again, as it was a hassle (see earlier in the thread).

I'm torn between ordering a neck template from somewhere (guitarbuildingtemplates.com or whatever it's called) and just trying my best. Thing is, I don't see how, with the tools I have available, I'm supposed to cut a neck with any sort of accuracy?

What do the folks here do? Draw the neck out on the wood, rough cut it, and then go by hand to the right spot? Is it hard to get straight edges that way? How do you avoid geting a wavy, unprofessional looking edge?

PS, right now I'm just referring to the shape of the neck as though you were looking directly at the fingerboard-- not referring to contouring the neck yet.

Hrmm... off to do a forum search, but since I've already posted this much, I'm going to hit the submit button anyhow.

Greg

[Gorecki]

After all that, it's back to the TOM and string-through after all.

So... I got the final tool that I "need" to do this guitar, and now I don't have any more excuses to not continue... sort of...

←

Well it's about time, thought this guy became fire wood.