rhoads56 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 this pic the neck is not laquered? Looks like a lot of water to me, which has now upset the moisture content, exapnded the timber, and seeped into the glue join. Bad idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKGBass Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 this pic the neck is not laquered? Looks like a lot of water to me, which has now upset the moisture content, exapnded the timber, and seeped into the glue join. Bad idea.... not to mention the gaps. Doesn't that worry you litch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 A little water. Less than you put in dyes. If it were going to hurt, we wouldnt use waterbased dyes. Anyway, anyone interested in what happens can email me. This is my last post. Bye. The email link will still reach me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 A little water. Less than you put in dyes. If it were going to hurt, we wouldnt use waterbased dyes. Anyway, anyone interested in what happens can email me. This is my last post. Bye. The email link will still reach me. what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 This is my last post. Bye. well apparently not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Just tyin **** up. I'll be gone by morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 leave your key under the doormat on your way out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I decided to stick around. I got something to say. hey litchfield, that package should be on its way tuesday, just to let you know. That is in reference to a neck you will all see progress on soon. I hope you arent making necks for people on this forum. Nothing personal, but you arent at a stage where you can do that yet. Buyer beware. Well, it seems you have a lot to learn. And dont tell me it's nothing personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I hope you arent making necks for people on this forum. Nothing personal, but you arent at a stage where you can do that yet. Buyer beware. Well, it seems you have a lot to learn. And dont tell me it's nothing personal. Again Litch, this is not intended as a personal attack, but I thought pretty much the exact same thing that Perry posted. Brian's rules are quite clear about users following the 'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all' policy, so I (and I imagine several other users) have been less than frank about some of the work you have posted. However, I think it's reasonable to comment if you believe that there is a possibility of somebody paying up for a product you honestly belive will not be of 'profesional' quality. In short, your work tends to show a willingness to settle for good-enough, which is not inline with the very high standards expected from a profesional guitar builder. For example, I cannot imagine a situation where Perry Ormsby, David Myka, Scott Rosenberger or any of the other experienced pro' builders would settle for visible gaps in a bookmatched centre seam, or using filler on a body which will recieve a clear finish, or having obvious gaps around the base of their neck joint. If you're building guitars purely for yourself, then you have every right to do as you please, and settle for the highest, or lowest standards you choose, but if you are selling your work (regardless of price) you have an obligation to meet certain standards which will be expected by the customer. None of this is intended to suggest that you are dishonest, or trying to cheat anyone, but simply that you are not honestly assessing your own work. You have to be your own harshest critic, because if you're not, somebody else will be, and if that happens publicly, it may be an uncomfortable experience for all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I hope you arent making necks for people on this forum. Nothing personal, but you arent at a stage where you can do that yet. Buyer beware. Well, it seems you have a lot to learn. And dont tell me it's nothing personal. Again Litch, this is not intended as a personal attack, but I thought pretty much the exact same thing that Perry posted. Brian's rules are quite clear about users following the 'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all' policy, so I (and I imagine several other users) have been less than frank about some of the work you have posted. However, I think it's reasonable to comment if you believe that there is a possibility of somebody paying up for a product you honestly belive will not be of 'profesional' quality. In short, your work tends to show a willingness to settle for good-enough, which is not inline with the very high standards expected from a profesional guitar builder. For example, I cannot imagine a situation where Perry Ormsby, David Myka, Scott Rosenberger or any of the other experienced pro' builders would settle for visible gaps in a bookmatched centre seam, or using filler on a body which will recieve a clear finish, or having obvious gaps around the base of their neck joint. If you're building guitars purely for yourself, then you have every right to do as you please, and settle for the highest, or lowest standards you choose, but if you are selling your work (regardless of price) you have an obligation to meet certain standards which will be expected by the customer. None of this is intended to suggest that you are dishonest, or trying to cheat anyone, but simply that you are not honestly assessing your own work. You have to be your own harshest critic, because if you're not, somebody else will be, and if that happens publicly, it may be an uncomfortable experience for all involved. What he said! Litch, you have a long way to go. You have drive, which is something a lot of people lack. You have enthusiasm, which is fantastic. But, for gods sake, shut up and listen to people. Ive posted a lot of subtle hints to you in the past, which all seem to have flown straight over your head. If you want to make the best guitars you possibly car, listen to the guys who have taken enough interest in you to tell you when your wrong. We arent "picking on you", we are pointing out ways you can do things better, or letting you know about your errors. Would you prefer people said nothing, but sat back and sniggered?? If you cant take criticism, them stop making guitars RIGHT NOW, because more people will not like your guitars than love them (that goes for everyone, including me, and every guitar maker in the world). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 With the whole if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything; how bout you take your own advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Litch try to be fair here!!! Its only constructive critisizm. These guys really know whats goin on, have you seen their guitars? In no way were they rubbishing you, man alive you are touchy if you think that!!! They could save you hassle if you take their advice, instead of gurning! You could sell a neck to someone, and have to re-emburse them because they say its not good enough, im not saying you will ,but when people are paying for something, they want something good, so you will have to offer something on a par with WD music etc... otherwise they wont buy from you. summary: Dry your eyes, and see that these guys are trying to help you!! I think wes should shut this topic if nothing further of your building goes down, ,and all it is is a moaning event. Close thread and delete all the extrenuous replies!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 delete all the extrenuous replies!! Mike Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I hope you arent making necks for people on this forum. Nothing personal, but you arent at a stage where you can do that yet. Buyer beware. Well, it seems you have a lot to learn. And dont tell me it's nothing personal. Again Litch, this is not intended as a personal attack, but I thought pretty much the exact same thing that Perry posted. Brian's rules are quite clear about users following the 'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all' policy, so I (and I imagine several other users) have been less than frank about some of the work you have posted. However, I think it's reasonable to comment if you believe that there is a possibility of somebody paying up for a product you honestly belive will not be of 'profesional' quality. In short, your work tends to show a willingness to settle for good-enough, which is not inline with the very high standards expected from a profesional guitar builder. For example, I cannot imagine a situation where Perry Ormsby, David Myka, Scott Rosenberger or any of the other experienced pro' builders would settle for visible gaps in a bookmatched centre seam, or using filler on a body which will recieve a clear finish, or having obvious gaps around the base of their neck joint. If you're building guitars purely for yourself, then you have every right to do as you please, and settle for the highest, or lowest standards you choose, but if you are selling your work (regardless of price) you have an obligation to meet certain standards which will be expected by the customer. None of this is intended to suggest that you are dishonest, or trying to cheat anyone, but simply that you are not honestly assessing your own work. You have to be your own harshest critic, because if you're not, somebody else will be, and if that happens publicly, it may be an uncomfortable experience for all involved. look litch...nobody would have ever said anything if you were only building for yourself...but like setch said...ALOT of us are worried about you building for newbs who may see the "custom gutars" on your name and think you are a seasoned pro... you seem like a nice enough guy,but before you build for others for money,i personally think(along with many others)that you needto show that your stuff is up to par i really don't like to have to bring this up...but really setch said it best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Litch seems to be saying that it's fine to change his name, so if that'll solve some problems, I don't see why not. I also think it would help for the critics to admit that every now and then in their 'frustration', their criticism has stepped a bit into 'harsh' territory that could have been interpreted as more of an attack than constructive criticism. I think this realization that things have gotten heated is implied by the positive change in tone on more recent comments, which have been fair and civil. Not so, some of the comments before these--in this thread and in others. With both 'sides' admitting a few shortcomings, the only possible outcome is an improved forum in the end. Not that I'm saying it needs to be a big public thing or even a post, but if the critics just step back and admit at least to themselves that they've been a bit less than civil recently, things can only get better. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maher Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Litch I like your stuff dude, and i like seeing your work progress and i have learned alot from you and and others feedback, so keep building and keep posting pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 snobby snobby snobby. im sure rhoads could have said that in a PM. we all need to stop behaving like idiots. Litch, the only 2 people you need to worry about liking your work, is you and the customer. if they dont like it do it again. if someone on these forums doesn't liek it you justs take it with a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 snobby snobby snobby. im sure rhoads could have said that in a PM. we all need to stop behaving like idiots. Litch, the only 2 people you need to worry about liking your work, is you and the customer. if they dont like it do it again. if someone on these forums doesn't liek it you justs take it with a grain of salt. yeah...you would know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 snobby snobby snobby. im sure rhoads could have said that in a PM. we all need to stop behaving like idiots. Litch, the only 2 people you need to worry about liking your work, is you and the customer. if they dont like it do it again. if someone on these forums doesn't liek it you justs take it with a grain of salt. yeah...you would know i wasn't going to even bother mentioning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 right back atcha big guy. (not wes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Jeff, I'll be frank with you, I don't like your work. To me it looks like you're trying to invent the wheel again with your body shapes. Nothing wrong with some personal touch, but you're taking it over the top. I agree with others that you seem to settle for "good enough" and that mind set will get you nowhere. I realize this post would be a slam unless I'd offer you some advice: Why don't you concentrate on building one guitar the right way? Concentrate on one project at a time and be determined to do it right. Take your time to get each detail in the building process right and accept nothing less than the best you can do. Copy a shape you really like and make/buy a template, that way you'll get way cleaner results. I know what I'm talking about. My first guitar came out really good, then I wanted to build build and build and noticed my work got sloppier untill I reached I point where I realized I should concentrate on one project and give everything to make that guitar the best I can. I'm not a pro builder by any means. I still make alot of mistakes and to be honest, my guitars are just copies of ancient designs. I'm a professional working musician. making guitars is just a hobby, but I reached a level where I can say that my guitars are better than the factory built guitars, simply because I prefer to play my guitars rather than the factory guitars I own. That's not an ego thing. I just can't afford to play a pos. This is a forum where alot of people haven't built a guitar and go "oooh!! that's awesome" with every guitar they see. It really doesn't help you alot. You really should pay attention to the people who criticize your work, because criticism will make you better. It will make you think, even though it might piss you off in the first place. When I release a new album, I always pay attention to the bad reviews more than the raving ones, because the bad reviews usually point towards a weak point. I learn from that and try to do it better the next time. 90% of the time, the criticasters were right anyway..... Making guitars is not rocket science. I'm sure you can do alot better if you'd concentrate on one guitar and give it your best. pay a little more attention to detail and I'm sure it'll come out just great. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Too bad we're not in the rant section so I can speak just as I think...oh well, I can still pull off brash, can't I? Litch, as everyone else said, your a great guy, no problem-o here with you as a person and all that, I would never want to see you leave here, you are MOST appreciated...but dude, if you're soliciting work out for sale, you should be shot, your junk ain't in that trunk baby. Most of your work reminds me of where I was at my 2nd, maybe 3rd year. You see, you wouldn't be getting a hard time lately if your posting went along with your talents, but with you, for some reason, there is a great chasm between what you post about and what you really can do. And in doing that, you are truly misrepresenting yourself, and no one here is about to just let that sail by unnoticed. Dude, the saran wrap did it for me. I would rate you absolutely as still a newb, maybe an experienced newb, whether you want to hear that or not, it's your mind that's having a hard time with it, we all see it. Somehow, over time, your posts got ahead of your experience, maybe it's an internet thing, I don't know...but somewhere in time your posts got more and more convincing, so at this late date it seems to a lot of people here that you are quite experienced, and you are -not- quite experienced, you are a newb going thru your first experiments with building guitars. Your ego has somehow bounded far ahead of your actual talents, and that is your dilemma, not ours. We are still being cool about it. We are not bullys, we are simply stating the obvious. If you didn't come off as a 'pro', and were humble about your talents as most newbs are, there would be no problem here. You are presenting your own problem, we are just the 'mirror' reflecting it back at you. No one is out to 'get you', but if you don't lasso that ego in check, then you will have a problem, but we are not the catalyst for your problem, it's in your own mind. Sucking in your ego kind of sucks, but it's just another lesson in life to be learned, it's your willingness to open your mind to friendly criticism that will win the day. Storming off in a huff will win you nothing. You really don't want to leave, but your bruised ego will make it a necessity unless you just relax and let it happen, chill out, re-asses your skills, humble yourself a little, and joke about it and hang around another day to get better. PS, leave the saran wrap in the kitchen where it belongs, save your money, and go buy some clamps for chrissakes. You're good people, this is a small deal if you lasso it and put it back in the OK Corral now. PPS, Perry does not hate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Snork, Thank you, I needed to hear that and from you it shows more maturity. Regardless of snide remarks made, good job Drak, you may be right about Perry. This thread is comprised of my own person projects. Production work is between me and clients, unless otherwise specified. I will enter in the GOTM when I have some things that I feel are the best I can do. No I havent done that yet, mainly because with my own things, I get impatient. It is good for finding faster ways, but bad because I rush and settle. That is what I am using these projects for, taking my time to be perfect.....and getting pissed at when the production stuff annoys me. If I drop a cigarette on this, I will not be happy, but its better than doing it on someone eles piece, which I wont smoke around Somehow, over time, your posts got ahead of your experience, maybe it's an internet thing, I don't know...but somewhere in time your posts got more and more convincing, so at this late date it seems to a lot of people here that you are quite experienced, and you are -not- quite experienced, you are a newb going thru your first experiments with building guitars. Your ego has somehow bounded far ahead of your actual talents, and that is your dilemma, not ours. We are still being cool about it. Most of my posts have been in this thread posting pics recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 PPS, Perry does not hate you. No, i dont hate Jeff. If i did, id let him go on his merry way, and let him find out the HARSHER way, eg: by walking into a music store and having them all laugh and pick on his work. Im not saying thats going to happen, but i have had my work on display in state based competitions (unrelated to guitars) and it is a killer when someone speaks their mind not knowing your listening. Drak and TLS put my thoughts down, in a way i couldnt, so thumbs up, i agree 110%. Nobody wants to see you go, we are only offering advice. If you choose not to take it, good luck. Please please please, simply hang around, absorb ideas, take notes, and come back and kick my arse in a future GOTM. Please rethink the advice your giving out. The saran wrap/cling wrap idea was not the best idea, and while it may have worked for you, this time, there are many people out there who have now taken it as gospel. I did try your methods, and used a scale to determine clamping pressure. I think you'll be suprised that ten layers of wrap had less than half (a lot less) that two clamps. Within ten minutes, the wrap had fallen to less than 1/4 of the pressure. Just remember, the difference between a good and bad join, is only 1/64" (or less!). Im sure you can see the consequences now... However, if your short on tools, there are many alternative ways of doing things that are cheap, for example, using rope as a clamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Dude, the saran wrap did it for me. I would rate you absolutely as still a newb, maybe an experienced newb, whether you want to hear that or not, it's your mind that's having a hard time with it, we all see it. Well, it worked. So what if it is unconvention to this field. Its shrink wrap, not saran wrap, and it worked perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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