What Do I Charge?

[toddler68]

After showing my guitar to some coworkers, I got a request for a custom job! Very cool but I don't have any idea what a reasonable price would be. Could some of you who have built from-scratch guitars give me a range for what I should charge?

Keep in mind I'm only nearing the end of my first build - I don't know how experience factors in. The end product will essentially be a duplicate of the guitar I'm currently building with a few minor changes. Here's a link to my project:

My project...

I'd appreciate any

[Primal]

Wow, first off let me say that that is a KILLER guitar! I wish my first build had turned out that well!

Now, onto the question. I think that at your level of experience, you really shouldn't charge more than what the materials cost ya. Don't think I'm trying to make you give the buyer an excellent deal, though! But seriously, you can't expect to charge over $1000 really. I would say, depending on how much you spent in materials, around $400-$500 would be a good bet. I would also discuss this with your coworker and work out a price from there.

Hope this helps.

[Scott Rosenberger]

I agree, I think since this will be your second guitar (Even though the first one is a Killer ) you shoudn't charge more than the materials cost

[erikbojerik]

Ditto. Even though your first project is really coming along great, you still haven't had a chance to give it an intensive test-drive.

I don't know your level of playing experience, but here's something to consider. You should also find a VERY experienced player to try out your axe and give you some players feedback; maybe a jazz player if you know any, they tend to be really really fussy about action & playability.

The thing about prices is that they carry expectations; people will be much more demanding on little details if you charge $5500 vs $1500 vs $500 (aren't you that way?). If you get rave reviews at $500 and more orders start coming in, then think about moving up in price.

[rhoads56]

if you need to ask that question here, you aint ready to sell.

[jay5]

if you need to ask that question here, you aint ready to sell.

Unfourtunately, that was my initial feeling. On the other hand if these are friends of yours AND they know your skill level and experience (unlike with some other people we know ) I don't see anything wrong with charging them for materials only. That would be a great way to further your skills. As long as everyone is on the same page as far as skill level and experience are concerned I think its all good.

[crafty]

Nonsense. That guitar is top-shelf. If you are putting in $500-$1000 worth of work, then charge the $500-$1000 over the cost of the materials. If your friend feels like you didn't put in that much work when it's done, then take a step back and look at the guitar. Look at it and see if you really put that much work into a quality instrument. If not, give him a break ON YOUR LABOR COST, but only IF the guitar is not up to par.

Talk it over with your friend and see how much he'd be willing to pay for the guitar, then go from there. You will not, however, find a finer handmade instrument for less than $1000. I really think you should get a fair price for the quality of the finished product instead of low-balling it just because it's only your second project. You seem to be a well-seasoned woodworker and I believe that the time and energy you put into the project (instead of say, your family) should be fairly compensated.

Remember, it only costs Fender about $100 bucks to build an American Strat, and they sell for $850-$1500 depending on options. I'd say take your Costs x 2 and figure in about $20/hr. for labor. It doesn't hurt to make a profit--use it to buy more tools or take your family on a vacation.

[jay5]

The point is Crafty, this is the first guitar he's ever built. Am I debating that it is'nt a fantastic example? Absolutely not. However this does'nt mean he is an expert by any means. Toddler would probably agree with me. He seems like a very mature, reasonable person, otherwise we probably would'nt be having this conversation and he would "toddler custom guitars" somewhere.

Think about this, what if his friend wanted a Les Paul copy? That involves a totally different construction process; set neck, binding, inlays etc. Things his current guitar does'nt have. Am I confident that toddler could handle this? Judging from the guitar he has built, yes I am. That doesnt mean that he should charge $1k plus for his first attempt.

On a side note, I think that too many hobbyists build a few guitars, are happy with the results and automatically think that makes them a professional. I am not insinuating that this is the case with toddler as he has already told us this would be for a friend. My problem is when someone "thinks" they know it all and then sells themself as such. Anyone who has been here long enough will remember several times where this has been an issue with a not so good track record.

Im done ranting, deep breaths Josh

[LGM Guitars]

I have to side with Perry for a couple reasons.

First, there is no such thing as a customer who seems to be happy with a guitar if there is something not right with it regardless of cost. It doesn't seem to matter if they spend $400 or $4000, they all bitch just as loud as the other guy.

So having said that, I don't recommend building a guitar for somebody until you are 100% sure you're ready and you are willing to charge for it.

Secondly, just like airbrushing, any artform, etc etc etc, doing guitars for next to nothing cheapens the entire industry, this is why even on the very first jobs I did, I charged regular price. Yeah, I had one come back, but because I did charge full price, I was able to justify redoing it, it would have come back if I'd done it for free, only then I'd have lost out. Imagine that a year down the road, you're wicked at building guitars, the same guy comes back and says I want another guitar, now you tell him $2000 instead of the $400 you charged the first time. One thing that many people don't seem to understand, is this is what people do for a LIVING. I get the same attitude with airbrushing, "it's fun, you enjoy it, you should do it for less" Bullshnitzle. NEVER tell anyone what your material cost is or they'll question your price every single time. Then they'll want to know, "the last one was only $400 for materials, why do you want $1600 to build it this time, I thought you enjoyed this?"

Last of all, even if you do it for next to nothing, if something is wrong they will complain and expect you to fix it despite whatever agreement you have made. If you've at least charged a fair price you can justify rectifying a problem a lot more than if you've only charged for materials.

It's entirely up to you, but it sickens me when I see people offering to build for "cost of materials" because I've been down that road in the past (not with guitars thankfully) and it puts you in a horrible position for future jobs as well as the rest of the industry.

Don't do a guitar for somebody else until you are 100% confident that you can charge $2000 and they will be happy.

For a bolt on neck I wouldn't do one for under $1500, neck thru, $2000, and go up from those prices.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary

edit: changed a comment to read what I meant, not what I typed LOL!!!

[LGM Guitars]

Here is a prime example, not to point fingers, but it's a perfect case in point of "doing it for material cost"

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...c=11215&hl=lazy

[jay5]

don't do a guitar for another person until you are 100% sure you can charge $2000 and they will be happy

Wow, very good advice. I think my position on building for cost, even for a friend, might just have been swayed.

edited

[LGM Guitars]

Re-reading that quote I realized I worded it wrong, build as many guitars for you as you like, don't do a guitar for another person until you are 100% sure you can charge $2000 and they will be happy.

The way I worded it sounds like don't build another guitar at all LOL!!! sorry about that

[krazyderek]

Don't.

[Setch]

Nonsense. That guitar is top-shelf. If you are putting in $500-$1000 worth of work, then charge the $500-$1000 over the cost of the materials. If your friend feels like you didn't put in that much work when it's done, then take a step back and look at the guitar. Look at it and see if you really put that much work into a quality instrument. If not, give him a break ON YOUR LABOR COST, but only IF the guitar is not up to par.

Talk it over with your friend and see how much he'd be willing to pay for the guitar, then go from there. You will not, however, find a finer handmade instrument for less than $1000. I really think you should get a fair price for the quality of the finished product instead of low-balling it just because it's only your second project. You seem to be a well-seasoned woodworker and I believe that the time and energy you put into the project (instead of say, your family) should be fairly compensated.

Remember, it only costs Fender about $100 bucks to build an American Strat, and they sell for $850-$1500 depending on options. I'd say take your Costs x 2 and figure in about $20/hr. for labor. It doesn't hurt to make a profit--use it to buy more tools or take your family on a vacation.

With all due respect, that is pure conjecture. It's a great looking first instrument, but unless you've played it, you're in no position to comment on it's worth - a guitar is primarily a tool, so it's appearence is secondary to it's functionality. Most guitar builders with established names and a ton of experience earn minimum wage, purely because the hours invested in a guitar make it economically impossible to pay yourself the wage of a skilled engineer or computer programmer. That's why most builders also do repair work to pay the rent.

[guitar_ed]

Hi,

I think that I am going to disagree with a lot of people on this forum. You should damn well charge for your time and experience. They are worth something to you. Also, odd as this may sound, people tend to more appreciative of things that they spend their money on, provided that they get VALUE for their money.

How do you think Bennedetto charges $40k for a guitar? They use pretty much the same materials as everybody else, they just do it really, really, well. Just like your first guitar. Or was your first guitar a fluke and not representative of the real quality of your work?

Don't take this to mean that you could, or should, charge $40k. But how many hours went into that first guitar? By this I mean real working hours, not learning hours. How much do you make at your regular job? Multiply those two numbers, and you know what your time is worth to you, swapping one job for the other. Now you can adjust the fee according to your requirements and your friends desire for a guitar.

One other word of advice: Contracts. Use one. Who owes what and when.

Guitar Ed

Yes, I am an @sshole on occasion

[jay5]

You should damn well charge for your time and experience.

Thats the problem Ed. He doesnt really have any experience. One instrument, regardless of how nice it looks dose not constitute experience that you could charge for. Bennedetto can charge 40K because of how long he has been building.

[american_jesus]

well, technically having one guitar under his fingers does constitute experience...no matter how you cut the pie, it's experience.

but does minimal experience mean he should be charging a whole lot for one of his instruments? definately not.

my advice to you toddler is to make another guitar, or make 2 or 3, hell make 20 more, but make sure they're all perfect. if you feel confident enough to sell your guitars afterwards, then do so, but definately take some time and perfect your sklls.

when you do end up selling, make sure you're not doing it for cost, because even if you're just charging for the costs of the woods, you still bought your saws, spoke shaves, sandpaper, plus you spent a long time working on a piece for them. make sure to make some money in the process, or it's just going to bite you in the @ss, and you're going to feel like you've wasted your time.

[crafty]

I'm still standing by my post, simply because of Jeremy's post. If you put the time into making an instrument that is worth $2500, you should get $2500.

Now, I'm not saying that's what he should charge for whatever guitar he's building, but quality craftsmanship comes at a premium price. If I asked anyone here to build me a $2500 guitar and you delivered a guitar that was up to that standard of quality, I would pay that $2500. It doesn't matter what your experience is--it's just like what Jeremy said--if you can do it and you do it well, charge for it or it will just cheapen your reputation. If you don't have the confidence or time to do it right for the money that you're expecting--don't do it until you are ready for the responsibility.

As for the quality of the guitar, I don't really care if it plays well or not. From what I've seen in the pictures and the quality that is evident, I believe he has the skills to do the job. I'm sure if his friends saw and played the guitar, that would probably be the reason WHY they WANT him to build it. I think with the guitar he built, a built-from-scratch, handmade, laminated-neck through with a carved cap, he gained a lot more experience than some of the people on this list who've put together 1,000 bolt-on guitars made from Warmoth or USAG parts for 10 years.

When I used to repair computers in college, I started out lowballing for my time because I was sort of a newbie, although I did have formal education with computer repair. But after a couple of days I realized that my work was every bit as good, if not faster and better, than some more experienced people. I didn't want word to get out that my time was better AND cheaper, so I went from charging $15.00/hr to $20.00. I didn't want to fight my old labor charges for years, so I charged a fair, competitive rate for my services.

If you go low end, you'll be in the low end forever. Charge what your time and family time is worth to YOU.

[litchfield]

Its good to see this kind of feedback

[toddler68]

Wow, I didn't realize the discussion I was spawning! All really great feedback btw. Let me get more into the specifics:

I'll add that the client did indeed like the playability and action despite the fact it hadn't been set up yet and had thick-ass strings on it. He is an experienced blues/classic rock player and knows guitars, so I do have one objective opinion to my credit. (I would like to get more, however.)

Here is my opinion regarding labor. I am an experienced industrial designer and have built product models professionally - I am no stranger to standard shop tools or woodworking. Regardless of whether I have guitar building experience, I have experience building objects to tight tolerances with extreme attention to appearance, finish and detail. These are valuable skills in just about any craft profession and should be rewarded accordingly. What I'm lacking is speed - something that I'm sure will improve with time.

I am going to take all this feedback under advisement and have another lengthy discussion with the client. I really want to build this guitar for him, but I want us both to be comfortable with the price and the outcome.

[crafty]

I have experience building objects to tight tolerances with extreme attention to appearance, finish and detail.

So THAT'S why the guitar looks damn near perfect and you proto'd the electronics!

It was kind of funny reading some people's reactions when you freehanded that router to form the edge of the top curve. Some people really do have the touch, others have to build up to it. If you are of the latter, I'd say your experience blows away (at least) 90% of the people here.

I think the key is going to be working with your Client. If he's been around the block, he's going to know what kind of sounds he wants and how to get them. The beauty of custom work is the ability to bring the ideas and dreams of your Client to life.

BTW, I don't think Ned Steinberger had even played a bass before he turned the guitar world upside down with the original Steinberger basses and guitars. Graphite guitars? Active electronics? Transposing bridges? NO HEADSTOCK??!! People still paid some good scratch for 'em, though.

Let the design and craftsmanship speak for itself and stand alone.