1nf1d3l Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 what kind of sound would a pine with mahogany top body have? mahoganys bright, but i dont know about pine. thanks from teh noobie guitar builder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Are their any tone characteristics of pine? i dont think so im not sure, but i dont think it would have nice acoustics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MzI Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 the problem with pine is it is beyond soft, any lil bump will ding it and what not, also it will gun up your saw blades and what not and is not advisible for building a solid body out of, im sure there is countless threads on this topic, honestly if i were you i wouldnt waste the money, if you want cheap wood just go get alder or basswood, if you really must use pine go for it the warnings are out there MzI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nf1d3l Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 well, its kinda cuz i have it.. would the mahogany help out any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MzI Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 no, basically dont use pine, stick to the tried and true woods, pine is for furniture not solid body guitars MzI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slayer63636 Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 its true, pine is very very soft. when i first made a concept strat guitar(i have so much pine and time to waste) i droped it and it dented like crap. As far as tone dont get ur hopes up. it produces such a thin sound that its barly there and with distortion is sounds like the crap. im willing to bet that a wal mart guitar would sound better than pine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kench Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I remember someone built a solid body guitar using pine. Must be somewhere in "In Progress" Forum. But that was an experimental project if I remember correctly. I wouldn't recommend pine either. It is soft and not dense enough. You can also see that by comparing its weight to the mahogany. The density affects the tone and sustain. Also, you may have troubles with the hardware on it. It mey not strong enough to hold the screwed hardware, especially the bridge and strap holders. Although there are some types of pine. The one we call "Red Pine" here are a bit more harder than regulars. They grow in higher plateus. But that is not dense enough for solid body either. But then again. If that is your first built and you want to have experince, Pine would be a nice choice to start, without expecting a good sounding and long-life guitar. Btw.. You are wrong about Mahogany has a bright tone. It has a warm tone. Probably the warmest in popular tone woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perhellion Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I've seen so many discussions of pine bodies, I just had to jump in. It is soft and will dent. A new pine board is much softer and less dense than an old one. Also, with the more tightly spaced growth rings, the old board looks much nicer. From some of the old boards (over 100 years), I'd guess they are at least as hard and dense as basswood. Granted, pine is not a common body wood, so everyone assumes it would sound bad. But check harmony central and the guitar reviews under Zachary Guitars (or search out Zachary Guitars) and there is a guitar made from a pine board from a Home Depot dumpster. The reviewer likes the sound. Also, some early Telecasters (could be Broadcasters) were pine, and I think the pine was abandoned not for sound but for it not taking a finish well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 at about $20 for enough alder at a cabinet shop to build a body,i don't think cost is much of a factor pine is hard to work.it tears out easy when using a router,chisel,drawknife,etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTLguitars Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 So pine is soft - what about spruce then? - yes, it is even softer - and spruce is one of the most used woods in acoustic instruments...just had to say it! So it is soft - then you have to take better care for your instrument- thats all. As someone mentionned above - pine changes much with age - due to its high resin content. It can be artificially aged with heat (and sunlight/UV-light) - some weeks at 40-50 deg. Celsius does a lot! (Try to find more about this on the internet) There is also a big difference wether you use pine grown slowly (mountain-pine) whit close grain or what is called broiler-pine - fast growned too produce building materials. It is not as hard to work as people here says - here in Norway it is the most common wood species and is widely useed for interiors and floors as well as furniture - sharp tools and clean them with acetone. It could be an interesting match to mahogany due to their difference in characteristics, but it is extremely important to have the pine completely dried -and preferably a few years old! As it is soft, it could be an idea to use a set-neck design for added stiffness to neck-joint. Give it try - Robert Benedetto has made very nice jazz hollow body guitars from pine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiggz Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 hey fellas pine is not good for much else than construction, regects some waterbased stains and bows like a mother chucker, if u leave it out in the weather it will lose its colour very quickly. it comes up fairly nicely with an estapol or other clear laquer, and as was previously mentioned is very soft, if u got ur heart set on this guitar of pine, i would try and get some australian grown or other area which take the branches off so the wood doesnt have knots, new zealand pine is absolutely full of em. luke 380 hayden u beast ps. for all u people out there spruce is a type of pine, which is considerably lighter and less oily/wet, and origon(spelling?) is a harder more heavy duty pine commonly used in indoor wooden stairs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 (edited) auccually kench, mahogany is prety bright as tonewoods go. It is warmer than most solidbody woods, but acoustic woods (ie rosewood) are much warmer/bassier Rosewood has the most bass. If I had an unlimited budget I would build a guitar out of cocobolo. Right now i'm building one with a cocobolo neck but thats just a neck also KTL, spruce is NOT softer than pine. And the reason it is used in acoustic guitar tops is they need the warmth of a less dense wood as the top matters most in an acoustic. (do you see a acoustic guitar top made out of rosewood or ebony?) My brother has a guitar with mahognay back and red ceder top(now thers a SOFT wood) that ceder has got so many dents it is un belivable, It is unavodiable with ceder. It is just too darn soft. Edited December 17, 2004 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I live in Pine country, everywhere I look around me there is a Pine tree, but that doesn't make it a good choice for making a guitar. Just because you have access to something doesn't make it worth a dime. Don't get me wrong Pine has it's uses, just not in making professional guitars. I later found out through studying, that Lite Swamp Ash that grew around here also was a top notch guitar wood, tone wise it's very nice, looks great transparent where the grain shows, and easy to work with. What I find is that if you search hard enough you can find a local wood that will work for you, but you have to do some research first... So, I'd recommend using Pine only for test purposes, since it's really not a good tonewood in my opinion, same with Oak, which is abundant here, it's good wood for building high dollar funiture, but not right for guitar building. Good luck.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kench Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 auccually kench, mahogany is prety bright as tonewoods go. It is warmer than most solidbody woods, but acoustic woods (ie rosewood) are much warmer/bassier The thread was about solid bodies and I was talking about POPULAR woods. Like Alder, Ash, Maple, Poplar, etc... Rosewood is way too far from being a popular wood to build a solid body. (I know its been used.. but not mainly) I know mahogany is not the warmest sounding wood in whole botany. And you can build a very bright sounding electric guitar out of it. But the mahogany itself, as a solid body tonewood, can't be considered as "bright". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 since it's really not a good tonewood in my opinion, same with Oak, which is abundant here, it's good wood for building high dollar funiture, but not right for guitar building. What about lace wood or silky "OAK" as it is also caled I use it all the time I look's good, sound's good it's great for guitar's in mind, but then again my mind is twisted !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I'm talking about the white and red oak that is around here. It's very high dollar wood, but for one thing it's just too heavy for my liking. Also it isn't considered a tonewood either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syxxstring Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 You know you guys make me want to make a pine guitar just cuz you say I cant and shouldn't. 1. Leo Fender did make pine guitars at first, and did switch because the finish wasn't durable enough. SO, Maybe someone wants a relic? The custom shop also made reissues of these in pine. 2. I've seen article that Les Pauls prototype "Log" was made of pine. I believe the guitar is still in use today. 50 or so years later. 3. Maple. Have you worked with it? Scratches and dings like crazy in my experience. Easily gets fingernail scratches after sanding. So long and short of it. Make a pine guitar body if you wish it may or may not sound great. If you have the wood and need the practice try it. IMHO its pickups and pickup placement that effect tone the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 First off, I have built a guitar out of Pine when I was in the learning phase. Everything I built was with Pine just to make sure that I had everything down before I started working with good wood. I have played it, but I never went as far as to put pickups in it and paint it. So yes you can make one out of Pine, but then you've got to ask yourself, "if I'm making these for people, then who would want a Pine guitar in the first place?". I could care less if anyone wants to build Pinebox guitars or whatever, that's their personal preference, but personally I'd rather make a guitar that's gonna sound good, will hold a finish, and be stable. Why do you think Fender and others quit using Pine? Because there is better wood available? I think so. Those was early experiments just as you wouldn't want to fly the original Wright Brothers airplane today would you? Just some food for thought. As far as maple goes, there is two types soft maple and hard. If you think maple dents easy then maybe you was dealing with the wrong kind. I have only built 7 guitar necks so I probably don't know what I'm talking about though. As far as pickup placements goes, it does make a difference but wood does also. I know this because we built two guitars and one was with heavy ash and one with lite ash, same electronics and everything. The heavy ash had a bright tone to it, and the lite ash had a warm balanced tone. If you heard it you would know what I'm talking about. Basically, everything makes up a guitars tone, even finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nf1d3l Posted December 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 ok but since im gonna be using mahogany as a top, would pine be alright for the rest of the body? its prett much gonna be a test guitar, but i intend for it to sound good. i know the pickups are most of it, so im going for a carvin, they intrigue me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nf1d3l Posted December 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 ok ok, new idea, im gona do the pine as a test, but how does fir do in guitars?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MzI Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 (edited) stick to hardwoods unless your building an acoustic or a hollow/semi hollow body MzI Edited December 18, 2004 by MzI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 There've been a couple pine threads already. http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...wtopic=1396&hl= http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...wtopic=8461&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 A good, cheap alternative to maple or alder or mahogany is poplar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1nf1d3l Posted December 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 is there a list of "hardwoods" on here? *is very unknowing about wood, well, THAT kind of wood at least * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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