Best Blues Rig For Under $500

[johnsilver]

Let's say you already had a guitar (alder body Tele, maple neck & fretboard, 2 humbuckers - SD Pearly Gates bridge and SD 59 neck) but no amp or effects. What type of rig would you buy for under $500 if you wanted to set up for Blues?

What would you do differently if the limit was $1000?

[lovekraft]

A Tweed Champ clone, and your favorite overdrive pedal - a classic blues rig. If you've got some cash left over, you can pick up a bullet mic and double on harp.

[Drak]

These amps all have good built-in 'grit', and are all known for being very 'touch sensitive' so it's natural to the amp and you can dial it in or pluck harder as you see fit and they all sport very simplistic control sections, all good for blues...I don't really know the current prices for the Marshall 18-watters, they might be above the $1000.00 limit.

The grit factor is built into the amp on all three, and all 3 sport really basic controls on purpose, so to me, that's a perfect blues 'plug-straight-in-and-play-yer-blues' rigs.

Interestingly enough, none of them have reverb either. But of course we all know surfin' and blue ocean water and blond busty babes does -not- give one reason to play the blues, so natch, no reverb necessary...

A (used) Dr. Z Carmen Ghia

A Marshall 18-watter clone

A Pete Cage 18-watter (search under 'The Audio Cage')

Then again, most all my blues heroes never used grit or distortion much anyway, ala Albert Collins, Roy Buchanan, Guitar Slim, Magic Slim (who is not 'slim' at all:lol: ) , Muddy, BB, bla bla bla, most of those guys used natural amp dirt if they needed it, but if you want to do a Gary Moore thing, you definitely need some singing distortion...from what I hear, all three will do both, although you might want a nice overdrive to get really dirty.

[Southpa]

Those Fender and Marshall amps cost WAY over $500, at least around here. Johnny Winter has used Musicman combo amps for quite a while now. If you want a clean sound that would be the amp of my choice. I've tried to overdrive my 210 Sixtyfour and no matter how high I set the volume (hurts the ears at 8) I can't get any natural distortion. The components of Musicman amps are just too robust for that kinda thang. Its funny how Fender amps sell for more than twice as much as a similar sized Musicman. But they were both designed by Leo Fender.

[lovekraft]

Those Fender and Marshall amps cost WAY over $500

Damn, you're right! You could pick up a decent Champ clone for about $350 not so long ago, but they've gone through the roof! OK, let me try again - Peavey Classic 20 and a used OD250. Any cash left over, replace the speaker with an Eminence Patriot of your choice.

[Drak]

OMG, playing blues thru a Peavey, you could just kill me first and get it over with.

Although I admit my 3 are all probably over $500.00, at least 2 would be under $1000.00, and are perfect blues amps.

John, you're not some 14 year old with paper route money, you KNOW you want a nice amp that is the right choice the first time out.

PS, the secret weapon to those high-priced vintage Fenders is a Traynor Bassmate modded a little.

I have one modded by one of the Traynor hounds and it's a mini-Marshall, got the crank and grind and everything at about 18 watts or so, but it's still quite ballsy and loud, just not deafening. But as with any vintage amp purchase, you'll spend just as much behind the initial purchase as you did on the amp, for new tubes, speaker, tuneup, etc.

That's why I like the 3 I picked, they would most likely need no servicing.

Check out a Carmen Ghia, they're around in decent quantity used these days, and are available in head-only or combo, as the other two are also.

[JPL]

How about a pignose?

[Daniel Sorbera]

How about a crate?

Seriously though. With the right guitar, speaker, and tubes a peavey classic 20 can be a very nice amp for little cash.

[johnsilver]

Hey guys, thanks for the tips. Lots to think about.

Those Fender and Marshall amps cost WAY over $500, at least around here. 

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Yes, they do. I did some limited checking. I also checked a few sources for the Dr Z Carmen Ghia. Reviews are great. They are priced at $1249 for a combo. Look really cool. I didn't find any used in a quick search on the net. I'll look more later.

John, you're not some 14 year old with paper route money, you KNOW you want a nice amp that is the right choice the first time out. 

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Damn!!! I hate being caught out.

You are absolutely right Drak, and I do KNOW it as you pointed out. I am just a bottomfeeder by nature ( ) and always find a way to "cheapen out" at the time of purchase. I know I need to fight that tendency.

Thoughts about Fender Blues DeVille Reissue or a Fender Blues DeVille 40Watt combo?

Also, what would your answer be for an amp head if I had a Marshall JCM800 Lead 1960 4x12 cabinet sitting in the spare bedroom? Right now it has a TV and a lacy doily thingy on top. Not getting the tone I'm looking for from that combination

[Drak]

Wait like a snake in the grass for a used Ghia, they are out there, but you have to have patience...or give Pete Cage a call and check out his website 'The Audio Cage'.

I think the 18W Marshalls are probably too pricey.

Pete lives in the same town as I do and is a very renowned boutique amp builder, but his prices are really reasonable for boutique equipment. Nice guy too, and is a regular at the Weber BBS.

Who the hell needs 4-12's anymore besides Wes?

Thoughts about Fender Blues DeVille Reissue or a Fender Blues DeVille 40Watt combo?

Well, I was trying to stay to those 'basic is better' boutique amps with minimalistic controls, basically plug in, turn up, and play.

But if you're looking at Fenders with reverb and lots of controls.....

Before I did something like that, I would buy one of the Lee Jackson era- Deluxe Reverb II's or Princetons and let Lee Jackson do his mods (reasonable cost too) to them. The last of the really good all-tube Fender amps those Jackson-era's were, and last time I checked, $450.00 or so.

Check out his website for a clip of the modded amp. I have one actually, but haven't sent it to him yet, very nice amps, very well-built, and you can still catch them for reasonable prices, but probably for not much longer.

They sound tremendous for jazz and rock, they don't sound as 'surfy' or 'country' as the older Fenders, but much more ballsy, much better for rock-influenced blues or jazz. They have a MV too, so you can dial it down or crank it up, they get LOUD!

I put an old Electro-Voice coffee-can alnico SRO in mine, it is a KILLER amp, but weighs a ton.

I was trying to keep you in the basic/easy/light/great tone catagory with those three listed.

Most of the ones I see on e_bay (bought two of them) are damn near MINTY condition, both of mine were as near-mint as you could ask for, one I got for $450.00, the other closer to $500.00, both Deluxe Reverb II's. I sold the second one later on, being too fat with amps, a few had to go.

[westhemann]

Who the hell needs 4-12's anymore besides Wes?

the 1960 marshall 4 by 12 is my god...i have a stack of those and for metal there are no others.

but for blues they will do you little good.they are much too warm and boomy.send it to me and i will run a stack and a half

[ooten2]

I have a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2X12 that I got for just under $500 (scratch & dent). It gets a great tone for blues and is fairly responsive to the touch. You can go clean or add quite a bit of dirt, either way it sounds good. Great feedback when using a Les Paul with some volume, and strats sound good through it, too. Great amp for blues, classic rock, southern rock, etc.

Down side is that it weighs a ton, I went to pick it up one day; the rubber handle broke off in my hand and the amp didn't move! lol

Another gripe I have is that you can't read the labels on the knobs. Fender put white lettering against a mirror-like metal control chassis, and you have to get at just the right angle to read the labels. My solution was to put masking tape under the knobs and label them myself with a sharpie.

But for tone and price, I'm happy.

[VanKirk]

I have a 2x12 Fender reissue tweed Blues Deville and I love it. It goes great with my tweed cable, tweed case and sunburst Strat, hehe.

Very responsive to picking dynamics and finger picking on the clean channel sounds sweet.

I let the tubes get nice 'n warm and with just a bit of distortion it nails the blues tone I want.

For effects I use a Johnson J-station. It's cheap but gets close to the sounds I want and I have fun editing the presets.

[Scott Rosenberger]

line 6 Flextone II or III Combo

[Drak]

Muddy, Freddie, Buddy, nor BB would have -ever- played a Line 6.

(jez ribbin' ya, I'm serious 'boud mah blooze )

[Gemleggat]

My advice would be to get something tube ,low wattage and don't worry about the overdrive from it. You can always use a good OD pedal to get nice tubey/blues thing.

Anyone tried Conford Amps? The little 5 watt thing?

[johnsilver]

Wow. This is great. Everything from boutique amps with nothing but vol and tone knobs to Line 6 digital amps. Now, its all so clear.

Drak, the "purity" of your recommendations appeals to me.

Wes, the Marshall 1960 cab has a fair bit of road rash but still sounds fine. My oldest son used it for years. Then youngest son used it until he got a Line 6 4x12 cab. He goes to school in San Antonio and had it up there for several years until he deposited it back here a few weeks ago. In fact, he interned in Georgetown, TX this summer and had it there. Went to some metal club in Austin - happened to be Satan night or something. Right now, its a TV stand.

Scott, two of my sons have Line 6 Flextone II heads. My oldest ran it through the Marshall 1960 cab for his metal band. Youngest is using his now for his band - I don't know enough to characterize his music but I do know he drop tunes a 7 string and produces a crushing sound.

Got a couple of votes for the DeVilles. Cool.

[johnsilver]

You can always use a good OD pedal to get nice tubey/blues thing.

Anyone tried Conford Amps? The little 5 watt thing?

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Name your favorites.....

[crafty]

You know, I think the blues is all about finding your own sound. What if I DON'T want to sound like BB or Johnny Winter or Muddy Waters?

Man, Robert Johnson didn't need no boutique amps or Eminence speakers--just a slide, a six string, and some hooch. He had the SOUL and I think that's what people miss when they try to assemble the "perfect" blues setup. There is NO perfect blues setup! If you can't make your axe or harp sound good through a basic Peavey (which are still good amps, no matter what the tone snobs say), it ain't going to sound any better through a $1500 boutique-of-the-month with a $500 Pete Cornish handbuilt pedal.

My God, didn't you people WATCH Crossroads?!!

*ducks*

Anyway, take your favorite axe around to the music stores until you find a good amp and effect setup for YOU. Everything that everyone else says is hearsay until you hear the way you sound through it. I personally don't like the way I sound through a Tube Screamer. But I do like playing through a Blues Driver or a cheap Arion overdrive. I like playing through Peaveys and Fenders, but I'm not yet convinced of the benefits of buying a boutique amp.

[lovekraft]

OMG, playing blues thru a Peavey, you could just kill me first and get it over with.

Yeah, it certainly lacks the authenticity and rich cultural resonance of an upper middle class white guy playing the blues through a hand-made boutique combo that cost more than Howlin' Wolf's house.

Different strokes, I guess. Actually, any small dual EL84 combo will get you a bit of nice bluesy crunch, so to avoid the Peavey stigma, check out the Fender Pro Jr and Blues Jr (the speakers will almost certainly need upgrading), Gibson's GA-20, or the Carmen Ghia Drak mentioned earlier. A blackface Deluxe is another option, if you like that sound, as is the Marshall 18 watt. And if you can find a Danelectro Viscount or an old Valco/Supro dual 6V6 combo, you're blessed with strong mojo.

[westhemann]

i have a blues jr...it was around $400 and when i unplug the stock speaker and plug in a 2 by 12 of jensens,it reall sounds pretty sweet.

Went to some metal club in Austin - happened to be Satan night or something.

must have been the "back room"..it used to be REALLY metal in the 80s and early nineties...it has tamed down somewhat but they still are the most consistently metal club in austin.

it's on the "east side" in a pretty ratty neighborhood of course.

[Drak]

Yeah, it certainly lacks the authenticity and rich cultural resonance of an upper middle class white guy playing the blues through a hand-made boutique combo that cost more than Howlin' Wolf's house. wink.gif

Dammit, I hate the logic of that.

[Scott Rosenberger]

I was suggesting the Flextone because of the versatility and price. I know Drak's a purist as am I it was purely a suggestion because of the price. Since you have access to a flextone why not give it a try on the fender models and see how it does for you. cant hurt and it wont cost you anything

[johnsilver]

Yeah, it certainly lacks the authenticity and rich cultural resonance of an upper middle class white guy playing the blues through a hand-made boutique combo that cost more than Howlin' Wolf's house.

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Hey, I'm starting to feel a little self conscious here.

must have been the "back room"..it used to be REALLY metal in the 80s and early nineties...it has tamed down somewhat but they still are the most consistently metal club in austin.

it's on the "east side" in a pretty ratty neighborhood of course.

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Yeah, that's it. The back room. He didn't tell me it was ratty. I just assumed...

I was suggesting the Flextone because of the versatility and price. I know Drak's a purist as am I it was purely a suggestion because of the price. Since you have access to a flextone why not give it a try on the fender models and see how it does for you. cant hurt and it wont cost you anything

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Good idea and I would if I could. I like the Line 6 equipment. One Flextone is in Shreveport and the other is in San Antonio. Not sure when I will see them again.

[frank falbo]

Hughes & Kettner is always making a 20-ish watt tube combo. They always smoke at ALL volume levels. They don't have to be cranked and they can get the gain from the preamp if you want it that way. The preamps are very good. And yeah, the Line 6 stuff is about as bluesy as Nelson back in 1992. The Crate vintage tube stuff is okay too, like the Peavey classics. But sometimes I think they get the right amp paired up with the wrong speaker/cab. So if you try one and it's not sounding right, go one "cab size" up or down. They have 1x & 2x12's, 1x15's, and some with 10's. I'm sure Peavey does the same thing.

But you have to try the H&K stuff. The ultimate setup for me would be the Hughes & Kettner Tubeman pedal (or Tube Factor) in front of a CLEAN old Fender. Like a Bassman/Bandmaster/Showman that you're not trying to overdrive. Or if you are, its just a little, to get the grit on your pick attack. One of my preamps is a H&K Attax, and after one or two fx loops it hits my 68 Showman head (lightly modded) and that combination IS my blues combo. I have other preamps for other sounds, but H&K is speaking my language. Until recently I used an H&K Tube 50 1x12 combo at church and it smokes. I brought some gear from home and now the other guitarist uses it.

The new affordable Fender supposed "blues combos" are a joke IMO. They're all marketing. I don't think they have the sound at all. Even the clean tones are wooly and ambiguous, even when compared to a CBS Bandmaster head.