Shreder Scale Lengths... Why?

[verhoevenc]

I'm thinking about building a shred style guitar. IE: 16" radius, wide bridge and nut, f-spaced high output humbuckers, the works. But then it dawned on me... why do all the well known shred style guitars (eg: Ibanez's Jems and RGs) have a 25.5" scale? Wouldn't as a shreder you want you frets to be smaller and closer so you could move around faster and with greater ease and not having to move/stretch as far?

I'm asking this because I want to know if there is a truely particular reason they are like this, or it just tradition, cause I've been thinking about making my shred guitar with the above specs, but with a Gibson (true 24.75") scale instead.

Thoughts?

Chris

[IplayMayones]

I'm thinking about building a shred style guitar. IE: 16" radius, wide bridge and nut, f-spaced high output humbuckers, the works. But then it dawned on me... why do all the well known shred style guitars (eg: Ibanez's Jems and RGs) have a 25.5" scale? Wouldn't as a shreder you want you frets to be smaller and closer so you could move around faster and with greater ease and not having to move/stretch as far?

I'm asking this because I want to know if there is a truely particular reason they are like this, or it just tradition, cause I've been thinking about making my shred guitar with the above specs, but with a Gibson (true 24.75") scale instead.

Thoughts?

Chris

I'm not sure why most shred guitars are 25.5" scale. It could be because they are based off strats. Personally I like 25.5" scale, easier to play the higher frets. Caparison's Horus model is 24.75" and has 27 frets. I don't think it will matter too much for shredding as long as you like it.

[radrobgray]

my thinking is that most "shreding" occurs 12th fret and up most of the time, so you would then want wider frets up there to make it easyer to fit your fingers in. btw caprison are shred oriented guitars, and they have a 24.75 scale so i dont see why you couldnt make one like that.

i play alot of heavy metal and instrumental stuff (jason becker, yngwie malmsteen, paul gilbert), so i guess i shred, but, i dont like some things that most people associate with shred guitars like these "thin" necks. i dont think how thick your neck is has anything to do with shredding, as i like thick necks (the neck i made is just under 3/4"). sorry about my thin shred neck rant, i just hate how people associate shredder guitars with thin necks.

[verhoevenc]

I don't like them either, I make my necks to be 13/16", even thicker than yours

Chris

[TimS]

I agree with what was said above - most shredders had guitars built as "super strats".

I like a 25.5" scale, but I have long arms and big hands. If you're the one to be playing it, make it so it's comfortable for you.

[Mitja]

Many of the "shredders" use floyd rose bridges, and the longer scale makes the bridge more stable to use, due to bigger tension from the strings.

For a shredding machine i would choose as big and high frets as possible, because it gives almost scalloped feel for the neck. You don´t need to press the notes so hard. Also tapping is much easier with jumbos than with some "banjo" frets.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Mitja

[Acousticraft]

The shorter the scale length the lower the string tension is, and it feels softer and is easier to bend strings. A long scale is a bit brighter than a shorter one that is described as having a warmer sound.

I am using the Gibson scale length fret board from Stew Macs but it is actually a 24 9/16" scale.

Look at Stew Macs website and they have all this information on the fret spacing / scale length calculator page.

On my last guitar I used a 25" scale length so I will definitely be using 11 gauge strings for my new axe.

[Mattia]

All else being equal, the longer scale has a bit more snap/bite to it. There's also the issue of whether or not people detune; I'm considering making a 25.7" scale acoustic for drop tunings, and that's with 12's or so. Tension doesn't scare me, but I like my bass notes to thump properly. Most of my electrics, though, are 25" scale with 10-52 strings. Acoustics, 13's or 12's.

(and I'm with the folks who hate thin, tiny, cramp-inducing necks)

[guitar2005]

Shredders have always used guitars that allowed great access in the upper registers. That's why you won't see a lot of shredders playing a Les Paul.

Also, when shred first started, it was with super strats, mostly thanks to Eddie Van Halen and his frankenstrat. Ibanez, Kramer, Charvel and Jackson started to market these super strat models and sold tons and tons of these guitars. All of the super strat models were based on the Fender Strat, hence the 25.5" scale, bolt on neck and double cutaway. Things have evolved since then and you'll see more shredders playing different styles of guitars these days but the basic Ibanez RG / Jackson Dinky design remains because it works.

On a personal note, I would add that a 24.75" scale doesn't leave a lot of room for fingers. I have slender fingers and the shorter scale makes it harder to get clean sounding notes past the 15th fret.

I've tried 25" on my flying V and it plays beautifully. Not much of a difference between that and my Fender Strat in terms of feel though...

In the end, a lot of shredder style designs comes from what Eddie and Yngwie used. Even Randy Rhoads went to longer scale lengths after the Les Paul with the 25" Scale Sandoval polka dot V and the 25.5" scale Rhoads V from Jackson. Again, better access and playabilty in the upper registers.

Edited November 15, 2006 by guitar2005

[crafty]

There are plenty of "shredders" who use scales that are all over the map. 25.5 might be the most popular, but not the best.

[fookgub]

Buckethead shreds up a storm on a Les Paul. It's just a matter of preference.

[El Dangerouso]

I agree, you will play best on whatever guitar feels best/you enjoy playing, but for the record, Buckethead's guitar is not a standard Les Paul. I read some article on him/it and it has either a 25.5 or 25 inch scale length. It looks normal on him because he is a huge guy, like 6'4" or maybe more.

[chewer71]

I agree, you will play best on whatever guitar feels best/you enjoy playing, but for the record, Buckethead's guitar is not a standard Les Paul. I read some article on him/it and it has either a 25.5 or 25 inch scale length. It looks normal on him because he is a huge guy, like 6'4" or maybe more.

yeah, i saw him live in march and he's even bigger than that! i'm about 6'4" myself and he was maybe 6'7" or 6'8"... anyway his LP is HUGE they made the body bigger for him and i'm sure they made the scale length longer as well

[Nitefly SA]

He is 7 feet tall with the bucket so, figure that one out. I was at his concert a while back and his Les Paul always looked normal but I saw his tech playing it and the body was huge. Pretty funny to look at actually. It bothered me that they didn't make the headstock proportionately big like on his KFC V.

[egdeltar]

I have large hands and fingers... Gibson scale just doesn't cut it for me. I find my self tripping over my fingers on a 25.5 still.

[guitar2005]

I just noticed today that the Kramer Nightswan (Vivian Cambpell) was 24.75" scale. Cool.

[Drak]

He is 7 feet tall with the bucket

That has got to be the funniest thing I've read all week.

[Xanthus]

A cool idea I picked up from the WOMD guitar was to use tiny banjo frets, so you can get more room for your fingers.

If I wasn't so hesitant about fretting my own neck (Or rather, not the fretting itself, but the playability), I'd try that idea from the 12th fret upwards or whatnot.

It seems like a solid idea no matter what scale length.