radrobgray Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 ive been thinking about getting/starting a rack. any body ever tryed the Rocktron Prophesy or Prophesy II. i read some reveiws but i would like to hear from you guys as i trust you more. is it a good preamp and are the effects great? im not really into uber amounts of effects i just like some reverb/delay on leads, plus the sparingly occational use of other effects. i was thinking about this for my rack: Furman Power Conditioner *some random wireless unit* maybe Rocktron Prophesy I or II Rocktron solid state 50/50 poweramp (lessons, practice) Marshall El34 100/100 poweramp (live and band practice) midi foot switch of some kind any thing im missing? any special condsiderations im not, well, considering? thanks rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 If all you use is a little bit of delay, why not just get a decent head with a switchable effects loop and stick a delay pedal in the back of it. Doesn't seem to me you have enough gear there to get a rack! unless ur dead set on the prophesy. Get a rocktron midi pedal. then you can run it through a 7pin cable (no power cables etc then). Not quite sure what the point of two power amps is. Just makes it heavier and larger. Only thing i'd be sure of, as with all rack systems is your wiring. Make all your cables yourself. Make them the perfect length with as little slack as possible. Keep power and signal cables on separate sides of the rack (i have power on the left, signal and midi on the right). That should keep the noise down. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 +1 on the Furman. Same as Sambo said also - I'd also consider cable routing from back to front, as some rack gear isn't as obliging to have all the connectors on the back instead of on the front :-D - BBE Sonic Maximiser - Seperate compressor and gate, possibly dualed - Large EQ for overall EQing of the rack - Humfrees or non-conductive shims to reduce ground loop problems through your rack (I think the Furman should suffice!) If you go for the Marshall power amp, consider leaving plenty of space above it for good airflow. As far as trust goes, you can trust us further than we could all propel Ed Roman. Given a trebuchet and a decent running start :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I would suggest going head/cab personnally, I have had a rack setup for the past 5 years and it has given me nothing but grief, if you are set on a rack though, I might suggest an engl e530 tube-pre and go with what else you have there, rocktron makes great stuff, but be prepared to go through TONS of menu's to get a decent tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 (edited) Dude, menus are cheaper than going through amps :-D If you know your equipment is right for the application then getting the tone you're after is just a formality and a case of growing with the gear. Rob has based his opinion on reviews only, but I think it would make life a lot easier if (ROB THIS IS WHERE YOU COME IN!) Rob kind of specified the usage of the setup a little further than lessons/practice/live. Rob, do you play in a regularly gigging band and support your habit with students? If so, I would use something simple and one-shot like Line 6 for students. You're not working with tone in that aspect, but you have all the dialling in you need! For what it's worth, live doesn't require the volume ie. 50w vs. 100w - just get the sound right! I pull half my tubes to break up more in the power section *JCM800 2203 100w > 50w* and you get better results without thwanging your amp. Anyway. Perspective given, do tell and we'll try and help you out more. </bottle of JD> Edited February 3, 2007 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 If all you use is a little bit of delay, why not just get a decent head with a switchable effects loop and stick a delay pedal in the back of it. Doesn't seem to me you have enough gear there to get a rack! unless ur dead set on the prophesy. Get a rocktron midi pedal. then you can run it through a 7pin cable (no power cables etc then). Not quite sure what the point of two power amps is. Just makes it heavier and larger. Dude, menus are cheaper than going through amps :-D If you know your equipment is right for the application then getting the tone you're after is just a formality and a case of growing with the gear. Rob has based his opinion on reviews only, but I think it would make life a lot easier if (ROB THIS IS WHERE YOU COME IN!) Rob kind of specified the usage of the setup a little further than lessons/practice/live. Rob, do you play in a regularly gigging band and support your habit with students? If so, I would use something simple and one-shot like Line 6 for students. You're not working with tone in that aspect, but you have all the dialling in you need! For what it's worth, live doesn't require the volume ie. 50w vs. 100w - just get the sound right! I pull half my tubes to break up more in the power section *JCM800 2203 100w > 50w* and you get better results without thwanging your amp. Anyway. Perspective given, do tell and we'll try and help you out more. </bottle of JD> i have a decent head that i like, but its a one trick pony. its a Marshall JCM900, 100watt, one channel, head and cab. it cant really do clean, but it does do good rhythm and lead, but, it wont do both at the same time. i do have effects in my loop im just tired of doing the pedal dance. ie. volume boost, delay, reverb, and then either wah or phase, sometimes digitech wammy. my reason for wanting two power amps is i practice 4-8 hours every day. about 3 hours with my band. if one of the preamps is solid state i wont have to worry about burning up tubes just playing by my self at lower volumes every day, if my logic makes any sense? my drummer is very loud, when i play wiht my marshall i have to turn it up to 7 thats why i want the tube poweramp. i do play in a regularly gigging band (currently were on a break but, we played shows 1-2 times pretty much ever week). i dont give lessons to support myself tho. i have a pretty good paying job and i still live at home (thats why im trying to get this now because i wont beable to once i leave). i guess i want the rack because its more versitle and theres less pedals to push when you want a different sound. i was thinking about an engl originally, but the rack isnt too much more expensive and it has more features and flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 well...the engl powerball is nice...depending on what you want... it has an insanely versatile clean channel...it is very,very clean...then it will do the "vintage" type rock thing,and the two high gain channels are great for metal...if you like the jcm 900 it has a similar cutting tone...but the engl has gobs more gain,plus the ultra channel is very bottom end oriented,if you want thump... i don't know....it's the most versatile head i have ever used...but i wish it had built in reverb.that would really make it perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 well...the engl powerball is nice...depending on what you want... it has an insanely versatile clean channel...it is very,very clean...then it will do the "vintage" type rock thing,and the two high gain channels are great for metal...if you like the jcm 900 it has a similar cutting tone...but the engl has gobs more gain,plus the ultra channel is very bottom end oriented,if you want thump... i don't know....it's the most versatile head i have ever used...but i wish it had built in reverb.that would really make it perfect. i ve tryed one my other guitarist has the ritchie blackmoor sig. there both nice and versitile but, as stated that still would require the pedal dance, im no tom morelo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Rack's are excellent for live use if you have a set of songs that you want to reproduce perfectly every night. I had a MIDI setup with an ART X-15 controller for several years & that pedal could control almost anything but I doubt that it's still in production. As well as the usual channel switching, the two expression pedals would control different things dependent on the patch (volume, pitch, eq, wah, delay, distortion....) & each pedal could also be used to turn on/off individual effects (like stomp boxes). The most fun was using the expression pedals to control a Novation A-Station synth module which I'd put my guitar through as well as keyboards. The most useful feature of the rack was being able to blend between EQ settings to lift the guitar out of the mix without resorting to extra volume. OK....the bad points. They're heavy & fragile. They shouldn't need much maintenence but if one thing goes wrong you can spend ages trying to figure out what it is. They're not very "experiment" friendly...sometimes a venue will need a different eq, sometimes you'll want to try a different delay setting, sometimes you'll want a different amp sound....that's when they become frustrating. As soon as I started to look for a new band & started jamming with people I sold everything, bought a nice little valve amp & about 15 stomp boxes. I love my effects but I love being able to select what I want, when I want more...& unfortunatley rack's don't offer that. They're more of a set up & leave concept. If I ever get to the same stage of needing a decent live solution again I'd probably keep the pedals & go for something like the Gig-Rig, which acts as a patchbay for effects. You connect all your effects - rack, pedal, whatever...& then select which loops are active when a pedal is pressed. You then also have the option of selecting any effects within the loop seperately.....a bit like a cheap Pete Cornish solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 I disagree with the last post! (sorry!) If you get a decent rack case, they're not fragile! And as for set up and leave? I agree once you've got your signal routing sorted i'd leave it be, but you can then program the thing to do pretty much anything. Take a Mesa Triaxis, 2:90 and a G-major and you can get pretty much anything out of it. As for what rob has said. Instead of buying two poweramps, why not just split your rack? Put the poweramp in another case and your preamps and effects in the other. Then take the preamp case to practice and plug into the PA, and when it comes to gig time, put it ontop of the power amp case (easy if you get cases that interlock well like the gator ABS ones) and plug em up. If you're clever about it you can make them plug and play. Oh, makes them lighter too What i like doing in a rack is having a 1u panel on the back with neutrik power and jack connectors (the locking types) and that way its like a plug and play unit. Very handy, very quick and looks pretty cool too. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 I meant setup & leave as in, they're best for programming a set of consistent sounds that can be controlled in realtime but if you want to tweak your sound from gig to gig or to try out something different....well, the rest of the band might get fed up with waiting for you to go through several menus. The Triaxis was great, so was the ADA MP1, G-Major, Eventide... but none of them can be tweaked easily mid-song unlike a regular amp/effects combination....which is why I see them as, "spend time to setup for the sounds you need & then forget about it" I've not heard of many people using their racks for recording sessions, they tend to be used for tours when a consistent sound is needed...that's why I said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Get ya. One thing that pisses me off about rack stuff.... PRICE. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 they look bloody cool though I had an Alesis dual channel compressor in mine for about a year, it was hooked up to make the lights go up & down but I never used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Have to admit, on the topic of compressors.... The DBX i've got in my rack is the single best thing in it Its last in line, just before power amps. Acts as gate and comp. Makes the overall sound soooooooo sweet. I also have a gate and comp before the preamp... thinking of getting another DBX to go in there too. Just sounds like recorded guitar when you play live. Cool cool. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr_XD Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 my limited knowledge on this just allows me for a single piece of advice: midi control = fcb1010 (and it's cheap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 well i just got a $2500 loan and tomarrow i will buy me some rack stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted March 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 i ended up getting: furman PL8 power conditioner shure pgx14 wireless Rocktron Prophesy II VHT 2:90:2 power amp and a 10 space Roadrunner case need to order the all access controller soon* the prophesy sounds really awsome, you can basically make it sound like anything(and it sounds very tube-like). lots of useful features, 4 built in EQs (pre, post, global and the amp eq), all effects are assignable to be before or after the preamp and effects in the loop can also be assinged before or after the preamp. easy to understand interface. sure does make my marshall sound lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 sounds pretty funky let us know how it turns out. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 my limited knowledge on this just allows me for a single piece of advice: midi control = fcb1010 (and it's cheap) I've been looking into getting one of those because it seems so flexible. Most of the Behringer gear I have tried was very poorly made, though. What is the build quality of the FCB like? Would you trust it for regular gigging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted March 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 after some more time with the amp, ive decided it was well worth the money. but, i need to learn how to use a parametric eq and eq basics or i wont get the full potential out of it. im used to doing what "sounds" good, but with all the sets of eqs it gets confusing. could someone explain how i should go about eq the 4 eqs on the amp? it has Pre Eq, the actual Preamp Eq, Post Eq and Global Eq. the pre, post, and global eq are peremetric and ive never used one before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted April 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2007 i finally got the VHT 2:90:2 it makes the prophesy sound phenominal. i honestly cannot beleive how good it sounds, im in awe. now i just need a new cab...any reccomendations? i heard avatar cabs are good, and theyre cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted April 27, 2007 Report Share Posted April 27, 2007 could someone explain how i should go about eq the 4 eqs on the amp? it has Pre Eq, the actual Preamp Eq, Post Eq and Global Eq. the pre, post, and global eq are peremetric and ive never used one before. Just a suggestion - try to get by with as few eq tweaks as possible. If you have a good guitar and amp, too much eq will start to sound "artificial" and detract from the "organic vibe". IMO For a long time I used a MIDI tube preamp + tube power amp rig... it worked pretty well. But I've since gone back to a "real" tube amp head and just using the guitar volume for clean/dirty. There's something to that classic guitar-->amp-->cab setup that you can't recreate with rack gear. I do like rack processors post-amp, though. I've only heard good things about Avatar cabs. For speakers, though, I highly recommend WeberVST. Email Ted and tell him what tone you want - he probably has just what you're looking for. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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