DrummerDude Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I like it when the nut is just another fret with the slotted string holder behind it. What is the point in having a bone, tusk, ivory or wooden nut on your electric guitar? I mean, when you are fretting the strings, you are getting the sound of a nickel or brass "nut" (the fret). Why would you want to have a sound that is different from the sound of your fretted string every time you hit an empty, unfretted string?! This has been puzzling me since forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I mean, when you are fretting the strings, you are getting the sound of a nickel or brass "nut" (the fret). To be a little more precise, you are "getting the sound" of a string pressed down to the fret with minimal, to moderate, finger pressure (moderate or more, for the guys who don't have great technique or a neck that plays well enough to do otherwise). That finger is acting like a "tone sink" capo, absorbing quite a lot of the string vibration. The good thing about that kind of string dampening, is that it allows low string action. Then the nut :. Much more string pressure bearing against the nut, plus no "tone sink" laying right next to it (finger). This makes it possible that if the nut is the same material as the frets, it will be a little louder/ have more sustain than fretted notes, and it also means something like a Corian nut, can result in a very balanced fretted note to open string match. But it can be so subtle, you might not be able to make up your mind if one is better than the other, or if what I suggested is really happening on the particular guitar. No exact rules on this stuff (watch one of the engineer types who think they know everything, say they have the exact answer ). I recently used Nylatron for the first time because the strings just slide across it, like nobody's business. Should be great for tuning stability, which to me is extremely important. Tonal-wise, it seems to provide a good balance between the open and fretted notes. It was on a customer's guitar, and he's raving about how great the neck plays and sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 My English is not what it used to be in high school. Are you saying that the nut actually changes the guitar's sound all along the fretboard and even on fretted strings because it serves as a tone sink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 no that's not what he said...he said he believes your finger behind the fret you are pressing is the "tone sink",and that the nut needs to be a bit softer to keep the volume swell of the note similar...rather it is fretted or open. i don't think my wording is any clearer...he was pretty clear.he also said it wasn't a very obvious difference. i am not saying i agree...that's just how i interpret what he wrote.i believe once the string hits the fret,the fret isolates it completely from what is behind it...but who's to say?i have not studied it,so i very well may be wrong.it's all just theory...or "voodoo" if you wish. i don't get into all the voodoo theories any more..i used to,but now i just concrentrate on improving my build quality,regardless of nut,fret,or paint type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 i don't get into all the voodoo theories any more..i used to,but now i just concrentrate on improving my build quality,regardless of nut,fret,or paint type +1 The only reason I use bone is because it looks good, works well, and wears down very slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 This idea became very popular at some point during the 80's. Some people decided to change to brass nuts for this very reason. Lots of people at this time had brass nuts on there guitar - most of them dont now! I cant explain why it doesnt work as you suggest it should. I can tell you i have tried quite a few different nut materials and brass is my least favorite. I like bone, graphtech or one of the synthetic bone substitutes for my nuts. I hate the soft plastic that comes as standard on a lot of guitars. I dont mind guitars with a zero fret and nut that acts as a string guide but i dont build that way. Nuts are cheap, try a few different types and you will soon be able to decide for yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Brian Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I was thinking about using either an ebony or purpleheart nut. Anyone had experience with that? I'm kinda curious if it would do anything to the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Probably not much, like all the others :-D I can subscribe to the "tone sink" idea, as there is only a very small amount of surface area on a string contacting a fret, so vibrations over the fret are going to get dampened by whatever is behind there. I've found that putting a block of foam rubber behind your nut under the strings to dampen headstock length vibrations alters the sound a bit. I'm considering a "dampener" behind my tune-o-matics also as an experiment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganBoySB Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I never looked at it how an open string when played could be louder than a fretted string! I mainly thought the importance of nut material is longevity... pretty neat. This luthier who's got my guitar right now says he's using the material that bowling balls are made out of ... is it corian? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Rubber, polyester or urethane. I would like to hear how your rubber nut sounds of course :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I like the concept of the 'zero fret', though I don't seem to be in posession of one. However, I will say this-- there's something to be said for having access to the different 'sound' of the open string as a different colour in your tonal palette. An open G chord and a G barre chord sound different not only because of the absent B, but because of the sound of those ringing open strings vs. their fretted counterparts. Having that choice isn't so bad! And the choice of nut material will in turn affect the resulting open-chord or pull-off-to-open-string sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Drummerdude, as Greg pointed out, you're talking about a 'zero fret' --there's a discussion of this somewhere else. They used to be more popular--Gretsch used them, maybe Rickenbacker? I know Hofner did, because I have an archtop of theirs with a zero fret. Obviously the Fender nut slot design is based on the zero fret--no doubt this was part of Fender's modular approach, because zero frets wear out like regular frets but are much harder to replace than a nut (this is just conjecture on my part). But the zero fret fell into disrepute because a lot of the early Japanese guitars had them, so they became associated with cheap, poor quality guitars. The main advantage to using a zero fret isn't tonal, it's playability--the zero fret is only slightly taller than the other frets, so on the one hand your string action at the first three frets can be made quite low, and on the other, there's less chance of the tuning going sharp there. It's much more fussy cutting a nut to achieve the same result --it's also the reason why most guitars ship with their nuts only roughly cut...it's a more labor-intensive process that the companies prefer to avoid. It's part of the reason why you're supposed to take that brand new guitar you just bought and pay again to have it set up. People do say there's a difference in tone with a zero fret guitar, because the 'open' strings are no longer open, but are in fact fretted like all the other strings. And the zero fret being the same material as the other frets, any difference in tone because of material is eliminated. I suppose this all makes sense in theory. And my Hofner might sound different if it had a regular nut instead of the zero fret, hard to say. It does sound great though. And it's the most playable acoustic I've had. So simply changing nut material doesn't go far enough. Regardless, as soon as you fret the string, the nut no longer comes into play, except to help determine if the guitar is properly intonated in the lower frets. On the other hand, I've been working on an idea to convert a regular nut (or nut slot) into a zero fret...And there's a company out there that is selling something similar (an insert that is essentially a fret without the tang). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 My next nut is going to made from fingers then. mmmmmmmmm, where's my boss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 My next nut is going to made from fingers then. mmmmmmmmm, where's my boss? I hear mice work pretty well too. And lizards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherokee6 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 My recent readings into the area say the difference is so minimal, any bone material will work as well as any other promoted material; it's all in the advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) Is the nut made of plastic? Or is it made of blued steel? Edited February 16, 2007 by DrummerDude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.