Mahogany & Tru-oil

[Rick500]

I've been looking through tons of posts about grain filler, Tru-Oil, mahogany, sanding sealer, and various combinations thereof, and I think I'm more confused by the choices than when I started. (I do appreciate those who answered some of my previous questions on the subject. Thanks!)

Here's the ribbon mahogany body to be finished (the cavity cover split; I'm making a new one...pay no attention ):

The only thing I know for sure is that I'm going to use Tru-Oil.

I *think* what I need to do is use CA or epoxy to grain fill, then do a bunch of applications of Tru-Oil.

I haven't decided whether I want to use a clear grain filler, or if a dark reddish brown might be cool.

I know I can tint epoxy. Can I tint CA, and if so, with what?

Is either CA or epoxy easier and/or better than the other, used as a grain filler? Or would I be better off with something else altogether?

Do I need to apply a sanding sealer first, then grain fill with something, then Tru-Oil?

I've looked up all this stuff and found suggestions here and there (sometimes conflicting), so I figured I would lay everything out here in one post and try to come to a plan. I know there are lots of ways to do this, but I'm hoping someone can suggest a few steps that are likely to produce a good outcome.

Thanks!

Edited March 9, 2008 by Rick500

[Jon]

Rick, looks like we'll be finishing our bodies up around the same time, as well as Matt Harris. Should be cool to compare all the tru-oil results.

And sorry, but I don't have any advice to offer. I'll be experimenting with the tru-oil on scrap to see what I can get out of it.

[mattharris75]

Yeah, like Jon said, i'll be doing my walnut body soon. I really don't know the 'proper' technique, but Jon posted a link to a tutorial the other day that he's going to follow. See if you can find that. As for myself, i'm doing a test piece right now, and it currently has 12 coats on it. As far as prep goes I just sanded to 320. I put the first coat on and then used a piece of 1200 grit micro mesh paper on the second coat, wet sanding with the tru oil as a lubricant in order to try to fill the pores. It may have helped somewhat, but it didn't fill them entirely. So I continued to put coats on it, and then for the 8th coat I repeated the wet sanding with tru oil process. Now it's got an additional 4 coats on and starting to look pretty good. I'll probably wet sand it again after another coat or two, and then once i'm up in the 15 to 20 coat range and it's looking really good i'll wet sand up all the way to 12000 grit micromesh and we'll see what we get. I'll post a picture in my build thread of it once I get the test board done.

[erikbojerik]

I finished a maple-padauk-walnut-ebony-bocote bass with Tru Oil, about 40-45 coats. No pores showing in the walnut, but some subtle shrink-back on the bocote, and big ol' pores showing in the padauk. But I wasn't going for a totally glossy finish to being with (although its close).

You can use epoxy to fill the grain, but CA will take many many applications because it is not very good at building up any significant thickness.

Both epoxy and CA will also seal the wood, which will keep the Tru Oil from penetrating and thus it will subdue the depth that Tru Oil gives you. Worse yet, the sealing will probably be variable, which means you run the risk of getting a blotchy Tru Oil result.

The best bet would be to follow what Matt is doing with wetsanding while the Tru Oil is wet, but a standard grain filler would work as well.

[Quarter]

I've had luck with the wet sanding with Tru-Oil on mahogany.

I applied a good wet first coat, let dry a day, then used 320 to wet sand, wiped excess off cross grain, wait a day, couple more coats, then lightly blocked with 600, then more coats.

[Rick500]

Thanks, guys.

I really dislike working with epoxy for any reason anyway, so I think I'll try the wet sanding with Tru-Oil method on a scrap piece and see how it turns out.

[bentwood999]

I would like to know how that test comes out 500

[kiem]

if you grain fill with epoxy, youl seal the wood right, so how can you use oil finish when youve sealed the wood?? doesnt make any sence to me, but maybe im missing sumtin.

[Rick500]

The idea behind the epoxy was to just use it as a grain filler, and sand back all of it except what stayed in the pores of the wood, leaving the majority of the surface of the wood unfinished and penetrable by the oil.

[Jon]

I plan on testing some tru-oil out on my Ibanez neck to get a feel for how the stuff works. I was wondering if I could mix some brown powder dye with the tru-oil or if I'd have to dye the neck beforehand?

[Rick500]

Check out this Turner Model 1 -inspired guitar.

Epoxy grain filled, shellac, then nitro.

Beautiful.

[erikbojerik]

I was wondering if I could mix some brown powder dye with the tru-oil or if I'd have to dye the neck beforehand?

I'd dye the neck before. I don't see any reason why you couldn't blend the dye with Tru Oil, but if you're not going for a completely glossy finish (i.e. only 4-5 coats), then you won't use very much at all, and with small volumes the mixing becomes tricky. At 4-5 coats you could easily do 5 necks (or more) with one bottle of TO.

I did 40-45 coats on a whole neck-thru bass and used only 3 bottles.

Also the TO really begins to skin over when you expose it to air, so if you mix then you have to keep it in a closed container with not much head space.

[DanielM]

I was under the impression that a good way to use Tru-oil was by using a Shellac Sealer first. then applying the oil. I plan on doing a Zebra-wood bass like this. well a test piece first ofcourse. using Rustins Shellac Sanding Sealer as the shellac sealer.

[komodo]

OMG that Turner inspired guitar is unbvelievable. Thanks for the link.

[marksound]

You guys want to know more about the guy behind the guitars? Check out John Catto's Myspace page.

[Jon]

I was wondering if I could mix some brown powder dye with the tru-oil or if I'd have to dye the neck beforehand?

I'd dye the neck before. I don't see any reason why you couldn't blend the dye with Tru Oil, but if you're not going for a completely glossy finish (i.e. only 4-5 coats), then you won't use very much at all, and with small volumes the mixing becomes tricky. At 4-5 coats you could easily do 5 necks (or more) with one bottle of TO.

I did 40-45 coats on a whole neck-thru bass and used only 3 bottles.

Also the TO really begins to skin over when you expose it to air, so if you mix then you have to keep it in a closed container with not much head space.

Thanks Erik, although I got to a start without reading any of this advice.

First off, the powder dye is water soluble. Mixing it with oil sounds pretty stupid to me, no idea why I even had that idea. Recently I sanded my Ibanez neck to where the poly was paper thin and much more comfortable to play on. Mainly because it was sanded up to a higher grit (around 1000). So I sanded it down to bare wood the best I could with 150 grit then took a test dye to see the spots I missed. After sanding down those spots and making the dye job a little more consistent I put another coat of dye on the neck. This time I only needed to take out 2 spots so I went over the neck with 400 grit to even out the dye job. I did a total of about 6 coats of dye. The rest are trade secrets!

Just waiting for the tru-oil to ship in. Should be here Friday and I need this bass for Saturday night.

[ooten2]

Hey Jon, if you need Tru oil ASAP, Wal Mart here in Houston has it in the sporting goods section with the guns. I would guess Fort Worth Wal Marts would be the same. Might be worth checking if you don't want to wait for the shipping.

[Jon]

I was actually going to check out some local gun stores for the same reason. I'll report back if I find anything, thanks!

[CrazyManAndy]

Yeh, you should be able to find it at any good gun shop.

CMA

[Jon]

Located 3 bottles at the gun section in Wal-Mart. Price: less than $5. I'll have this neck complete tomorrow and will have the bass wired and strung before the end of the night. Also got some more batteries for the camera so I can get some nice pictures.

My process for doing the dyed neck will be:

Apply coat

Wait 2 hours

Wetsand with 600 grit

I'll be repeating this until I'm happy with the results.

[Jon]

Wet sanding at 600 grit just isn't working out for this kind of finish. Maybe if I had some higher grit sandpaper, but 600 wont do. So I tried some very fine Formby's steel wool inbetween each coat and it's working amazingly well. Infact, I'd say steel wool and an oil varnish go hand in hand. About to apply coat #3 and the neck is looking amazing. I plan on taking a picture or two of it tonight / tomorrow.

[Rick500]

Can't wait to see pics. Thanks for posting, too. You'll be done with yours before it's time for me to start finishing.

I went out to Wal-Mart this evening and found a couple of Birchwood Casey products, but no Tru-Oil. I'll have to check the super Wal-Mart tomorrow.

$5 is a good deal too. I paid $10.99 for an 8 ounce bottle at Woodcraft last weekend.

[ooten2]

Yeah, for less than $5, you can't beat the price for that finish. The Wal Mart closest to me is a super and they always have it. Thanks for letting us know about the 600 sandpaper, I've never tried that with Tru-oil, probably won't try it now.

I've always had really good results using steel wool. Can't wait to see the pics!

[Jon]

$5 for 3 ounces, or $10.99 for 8 ounces? I'll take the 8 ounce bottle.

So I just applied the 5th coat of Tru-oil. It was sort of un-level in some areas so I wet-sanded after the steel wool on the 4th coat. I used 1000 and would recommend 1000-2000 and really taking your time taking out the inconsistencies. Once you get a wiping technique down, it really starts to look amazing just after applying the varnish. Here's a picture after the 4th coat after the steel wool before the wetsanding.

I plan on doing this until I find a better method or run into issues:

Apply tru-oil

Fine steel wool

Repeat oil / wool 4 times

Wetsand

[Rick500]

Ahhh, 3 ounces. Well then. Guess I don't have to make that trip to Wal-Mart now after all.

That neck's looking good!