Snork Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Which do you think does a better job and why? And where can you buy a buzz feiten tuning system. i've only been able to locate the earvana which is very decently priced. I think the buzz feiten might be over the top price wise. not sure though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Maybe I'm just dumb, but could someone explain what he's talking about...I'm lost. heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 they're nuts on the top of the guitar that hold the strings. buzz feiten is some weird metal crap involving like tightening how close the strings are together i dont know much about that. but the earvana is a piece of plastic that holds strings closer together so that they stay in tune with eachother or some crap like that. all i know is that it sounds like something that would go well with an acoustic. the main pros for it are chords apparently. with buzz feiten i dont know, vai supports it so i guess its good for legato **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 You might as well add Yamaha's "Fretwave" system to these as seen on the Frank Gambale Model: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckguitarist Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 thats freakin weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 buzz feiten is some weird metal crap involving like tightening how close the strings are together i dont know much about that. what in the?????? run a search for earvana.... u'll find info on it and somewhere in that thread we uncovered some info on the buzz system... (just for the record there's no "metal crap" envolved) or help out the site with a donation and the info is in the download section. ps, that yamaha is pretty nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DividedByJames Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Yamaha is not that bad, although the frets look kooky regardless if the tuning is better. Black is good...he used to play bright ass yellow and pink Ibanez Sabres. Well if we're talkin frets...don't forget the Novax guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basey Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I talked to a guitar tech at a local Washburn dealer about a month ago. He said the buzz feiten system has to do with the nut, the relief in the neck, intonation and even the angle of the frets are changed. He said if he told me anymore he'd would be forced to kill me. I guess those guys have to pay a lot of money to learn and use that technique. Honestly, I can't tell any difference between a regular guitar or a feiten Washburn guitar. It must be fairly subtle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAI6 Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I talked to a guitar tech at a local Washburn dealer about a month ago. He said the buzz feiten system has to do with the nut, the relief in the neck, intonation and even the angle of the frets are changed. He said if he told me anymore he'd would be forced to kill me. I guess those guys have to pay a lot of money to learn and use that technique. Honestly, I can't tell any difference between a regular guitar or a feiten Washburn guitar. It must be fairly subtle. Yeah it's very subtle. SO subtle in fact, that the frets are NOT angled differently. The Feiten system involves relocating the nut, adjusting the intonation (it has to be "off" by a certain amount), and following specific guidelines when tuning the guitar. Korg makes a tuner that has the settings pre-programmed. If the Feiten system involved angling the frets, it would probably cost more. The current price for a retrofit is around $175, and there is no way that could include pulling off the fretboard, installing a new one, a full fret job, as well as moving the nut... And Mr. Buzz Feiten also gets a little cut of that $175. Thank God for patents! And it costs around $400 to become a licensed Feiten retrofitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I thought it was like $5,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAI6 Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Last time I checked it was $400 to become a Retrofitter. (i.e. to convert existing guitars to Feiten) You probably just get a basic set of instructions and plans on how it's done. To become an Installer is probably (alot) more. If you want to be a full-on installer, you have to go to Feiten for a week-long class or something like that. You bring your own acoustic guitar (they're harder to convert), and leave a fully licensed Installer. Now, it doesn't really make any sense to me. Once you know how to convert a guitar to Feiten, it cannot be that hard to make a guitar from scratch that has the Feiten... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 the buzz system has a compensating nut, and the frets are crowned in such a way that the guitar is perfectly intonated across all strings and all notes. BUZZ FEITON FRETS ARE NOT STANDARD FRETS. they are angled so the parts of the fret that actually touches the string is in the right place for intonation. the compansating nut compansates for the scale of each string to maintain a perfect 25.5, 24...etc. it is a precise system, but it's not voodoo. i had a Tom Anderson with the system for a few years, it's a big difference in sound, but not in feel. once you hear a guitar in perfect tune, it makes all other standard fretted guitars sound like poo poo. just run a google seach, you will find all kinds of explainations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 once you hear a guitar in perfect tune, it makes all other standard fretted guitars sound like poo poo. Please don't forget, the guitar is not in perfect tune, speaking of the mathematical relations of frequencies at intervals, it's rather well-tempered. Point is, we've grown to be more accomodated to the "well-tempered" tuning, although it has a certain amount of "off"-ness. so long ace P.S.: What I could gather from the last thread was: The Earvana does about as good a job in improving intonation and is $30 plus installation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Actually, what the Feiten system does is to attempt to adjust the theoretical string length for the pitch changes resulting from the increased tension close to the nut as compared to around the twelfth fret. It's really not clear to say that it's capable of making a guitar play"perfectly in tune" - it compensates for some of the guitar's inherent inotnation problems, especially in first position. That said, it has it's own problems: 1. You have to tune the guitar strings according to the system, which involves dropping some strings slightly flat of their "normal" pitches, so you have to have either a very accurate calibrated tuner, or one that is setup for the system. 2. The guitar can only be set up for a specific set of string gauges, so if you change your setup from say .009-.046 to .010-.052, you'll have to have it redone. 3. Any chromatic instrument is inherently out of tune, since the notes are based on a mathematical average, not on the actual harmonics of a given key. How much it helps depends very much on how good your ear is. I've played the Anderson's, and while I can tell a difference, for me it's not worth the setup cost - your mileage may vary. I'm not knocking Buzz, he's spent a lot of time doing the research, and basic physics says it will work, I just don't personally find the results compelling. Hope I don't lose my "Tune it, or die!" t-shirt over this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 After seeing that Yamaha I just grabbed a chisel and hammered my frets.Bent the snot out of `em,but it sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 you just randomly bent the frets? i dont think it would sound good after doing that. 175!!!! screwwww THAT! ill just do the earvana thing fer 25. heh. the yamahta thing looks pretty cool. I was hopin buzz feiten was just a simple install but i guess not. oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 dang.goat,you are going to have to reign in your sense of humor! i don't think snork understands what a joke is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Bell Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 The earvana nut only makes a difference when you are playing open strings, the Buzz Feiten makes a difference on the whole neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 dang.goat,you are going to have to reign in your sense of humor! i don't think snork understands what a joke is Yeah,I won`t tell him about the guitar I made out of I-beam to play heavy metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 dang.goat,you are going to have to reign in your sense of humor! i don't think snork understands what a joke is Yeah,I won`t tell him about the guitar I made out of I-beam to play heavy metal hehe...ironworker humor...i love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryeisnotcool2 Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 ha ha goat you rule! i personally dont think its worth it, unless you play alot of open cords. i dont so i wont spend that kinda cash. and if i understand correctly the nut is moved towards the bridge by 1 or 2 mm. i have a freind who has a tom anderson with this system maybe he'll let me borrow it and i will get the lowdown for you guys. we dont need no stinkin coarse ! we can do it our selves! buzz feiten, buzz shmeiten thats what i say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 buzz feiten, buzz shmiten thats what i say! Yeah! "I`ve patented perfect intonation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryeisnotcool2 Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 yeah well ive patented burping the abc's so your not alowed to do that anymore! unless you pay me 2 cents a letter and give full copyrights to me! and charge others 2 MILLION dollars to learn the "proper technic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkle Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 they're nuts on the top of the guitar that hold the strings. buzz feiten is some weird metal crap involving like tightening how close the strings are together i dont know much about that. but the earvana is a piece of plastic that holds strings closer together so that they stay in tune with eachother or some crap like that. all i know is that it sounds like something that would go well with an acoustic. the main pros for it are chords apparently. with buzz feiten i dont know, vai supports it so i guess its good for legato **** Well put! I just don't personally find the results compelling. Hope I don't lose my "Tune it, or die!" t-shirt over this I've heard the description that, if a normal guitar is 80% in tune, the Feiten system will get you 90% in tune. I have a hard time justifying the expense. I'd do a Plek way before I'd do a Feiten. I never realized that they actually relocate the crowns of the frets with the setup - how do they do that I wonder? My compromise is to tune my guitar to all fretted notes, rather than open tunings (like Buzz has you do it with his system). -Sven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm not against moving forward with technology but if the standard tuning system was good enough for SRV, Jimmy Page, Jimmy Hendrix, Randy Rhoads, David Gilmour, ... I would think that it would still be good enough for me to continue on with it. I also understand that some people are cursed with having "Perfect Pitch" hearing - which should drive that type of person away from playing a guitar. If someone has that curse and insists on playing guitar, then maybe the Buzz system is a blessing. I'm staying old school on this. A little slop never bothered me - actually I think it gives music a little personality. Jimmy Page wasn't always "right on" with his playing but it still sounds great to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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