Heavy Guitars.

[Guitars by Jake]

I recently purchased a large board of african mahogony to build some solid 1 piece body guitars. When loading the board into the car, I noticed it was fairly heavy. I figured once the body blanks were cut out that they wouldnt be too bad. Well, I cut one out today, and weighed it. It came in at about 8 lbs! I still have to shape and route it, but I dont think these will be light weight guitars. This is some seriously dense wood! Hopefully that translates well into good tone. I know some people like a more solid feeling guitar, but the majority will want lighter instruments. any body here build/play heavy guitars?

[NotYou]

I recently purchased a large board of african mahogony to build some solid 1 piece body guitars. When loading the board into the car, I noticed it was fairly heavy. I figured once the body blanks were cut out that they wouldnt be too bad. Well, I cut one out today, and weighed it. It came in at about 8 lbs! I still have to shape and route it, but I dont think these will be light weight guitars. This is some seriously dense wood! Hopefully that translates well into good tone. I know some people like a more solid feeling guitar, but the majority will want lighter instruments. any body here build/play heavy guitars?

If you're building it for yourself, it's no big deal. Most people don't want to buy a heavy guitar, though. My first build was also a one piece African mahogany and was definitely on the heavy side.

Personally, I like them heavy. Although, I'm also 6'1" and 225 lb (that's a fit 225 lb ). If it feels comfortable to you, go for it. Some people argue that a heavy guitar gets a fuller tone and more sustain. I can't say that's true, though. I haven't compared them enough myself.

[Keegan]

My body has finished in at just under 6 pounds. I think the blank was like 9-10. I think it's mostly going to be a recording guitar anyways, and I like heavier guitars when I don't have to carry them.

Never been a fan of those little 5-pound guitars though. They feel like toys. 8-9lb is a good weight.

edit: Weight doesn't really mean crap for tone. Maybe sustain, but tone depends more on the type of wood and even more on the pickups. People might think heavier guitars sound fuller and get more sustain because Les Pauls are made of mahogany which happens to be heavy.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Keegan

[DC Ross]

I try to build light without being obnoxiously light. My fanned-fret baritones weigh in at just under 6 lbs. and it sustains for days (super-thin carved Alder body, super-thin Maple neck). Practically everyone I've spoken with prefers lighter guitars.

[NotYou]

I don't think weight changes much anything regarding sound, actually. I thought I'd throw that out there since some people seem to insist on it.

I don't think it effects sustain either, at least not the weight of the wood you're using (how much wood is there is a different matter). I've been messing around with redwood a lot lately. That stuff is so light it doesn't seem real, but it will resonate as long or longer than most woods I have experience with.

Edited April 25, 2009 by NotYou

[avengers63]

I don't think anyone would argue that lighter guitars are more comfortable to play. It's all subjective to what one considers light, but taking that into consideration, lighter generally feels better.

The main drawback I can see is that in some cases, a light body can become unbalanced if mated with a heavy neck. A lot od this can be rectified (or at least fought off somewhat) with body design, but the possibility remains.

BUT... it's clear that weight and comfort to play aren't nearly as important to some as sound, as evidenced with the long-term popularity of the Les Paul.

BUT... some still prefer style over substance. The reverse Firebird is completely unbalanced, yet remains a favorite to some. Likewise, some Vs have balance issues. The BC Rich Warlock is DANG heavy, but has the right look, so it's been a great seller.

BUT... some prefer substance over style, hence the Klein-inspired ergonomic designs.

So, like pretty much everything else in life, it's all a matter of personal taste and what's important to you.

[Narcissism]

My bass weighs in at 11 or 12 lbs. Yeah, its heavy. Does it look good? Yep. Does it sound good? Yep. Is it comfortable to play? I'm comfortable playing it for 2 hours straight with a wide strap. Honduras Mahogany's a little heavier than African, and Les Pauls are made out of African. Strats would be just as heavy if they weren't chambered, and were made of mahogany. I personally don't think weight is a factor, unless its obviously a pain in the butt to lug around. 11's kinda pushing it for me but I can deal with it.

[Guitars by Jake]

Most of the guitars I build using that shape and setup are in the 7, or 8 lb range. I have made a 10 lb guitar, but it had a marble wood back. I fear these guitars I am going to start soon, will all be around that weight if I dont do something like chamber them, but I dont do that because of the way I carve them. Maybe its time for a new model!

[Akula]

My 5 string bass is pretty heavy. I havnt weighed it, but I'm fine with it. On the other hand, my cheap strat is rediculously light, and I find that alright as well.

When it comes to guitars, weight isnt an issue for me. When it comes to huge bass amps I have to lug around to band practices, yeah thats an issue

[Prostheta]

Has the wood been seasoned properly? The additional weight might be excess water? I'm not sure how much weight mahogany loses from green to seasoned, although I would be interested in hearing if this a factor. I've always found "African mahogany" (Sapele?) to be light, so this is interesting from my perspective.

[Guitars by Jake]

Has the wood been seasoned properly? The additional weight might be excess water? I'm not sure how much weight mahogany loses from green to seasoned, although I would be interested in hearing if this a factor. I've always found "African mahogany" (Sapele?) to be light, so this is interesting from my perspective.

I have used alot of african mahogony, and have seen some really light stuff, and some really heavy stuff. This one is a monster! I got it from the same place I have been getting my wood from for quite some time. The guy I work for has been getting it there too. Never had an issue with unseasoned lumber. I might know someone with a moisture meter though.....

[foil1more]

My first guitar weighs in at about 10lbs. It is 2 inches thick chambered mahogany with a maple top that is about the size of an Ibanez artcore. It's really well balanced though and it is also really comfortable to play sitting. My bass is lighter but it is neck heavy and not as comfortable to play.

[Prostheta]

From what I can find, there are a few different African Entandrophragma "Mahogany" with weights varying between species, although in the region of 42lbs/PCF give or take one or two. Sipo and Sapele seem to be the most common timbers sold as "African Mahogany" from what i've seen when whilst shopping around for blanks.

An unchambered 4.5cm thick Superstrat shape with no cavity routing carried out has just under 4000cm³ in volume, which is around 0.14ft³ translating to roughly 5.9lbs. That 8lb body result is a monster for sure! Calculating back, that would be around 57lb/PCF....

I hope i'm thinking on the right lines here, and whether this helps at all i'm not sure. Still, it was fun.

[Drak]

Like has been said, common sense and knowing who you are building for should rule the day.

Personally, I am building for me, and I like a little variety here and there, I have built African Mahogany-cored Teles that are heavier than typical, but not stupid heavy, and they sound fantastic, love 'em.

But they are heavy -within normal standards-.

OTOH, I built a 2" Walnut guitar (chambered) that in the end, I jettisoned for 2 important reasons:

1. It was too heavy, even tho I chambered it

2. I had made the upper horn too elongated (more like a bass) and it placed the fretboard in a position that was not optimum for my playing comfort.

It looked great and played great, but those two common sense facts made the guitar forgettable for me, it didn't last long and was dissasembled for parts later on. I learned my lessons and moved on.

I didn't try to rationalize it away and say everything was fine, because it wasn't.

It can be a double-edged sword I guess.

One the one hand, I think the mark of a good luthier is the use of his common sense.

He has gotten thru his exploratory years where he tries everything at least once (we all have to do that)

Then he calms down and starts to put to use all that he has learned over the years, he starts to define

what is important and starts to implement those important things, and discards what doesn't work.

If you are still in your exploratory years, then you are going to do things based on lack of experience, and there's not much you can do about it except know that as time goes on, your collective wisdom will increase and your builds will become more stable, more solid, more full of common sense.

On the other hand, exploration and creativity are things not to be cast away either.

I guess it comes down to how you harness your experiences to work for you.

We all start out as immature builders, and we all progress towards being a mature, seasoned builder.

What does your common sense tell you, based on how long you're been building?

Your answer will be found there I think.

One of the things I always try to remember is that my time is important and valuable, and as soon as I determine that a build is inferior in some way, I immediately abort it, it's not worth my time to do half-assed builds, I just learn the lesson and move on.

I would maybe build ONE and see what you think, I wouldn't do a series of guitars based on your common sense giving you a warning like that, part of being a seasoned builder is listening to what your common sense is trying to tell you.

[eljib]

From what I can find, there are a few different African Entandrophragma "Mahogany" with weights varying between species, although in the region of 42lbs/PCF give or take one or two. Sipo and Sapele seem to be the most common timbers sold as "African Mahogany" from what i've seen when whilst shopping around for blanks.

An unchambered 4.5cm thick Superstrat shape with no cavity routing carried out has just under 4000cm³ in volume, which is around 0.14ft³ translating to roughly 5.9lbs. That 8lb body result is a monster for sure! Calculating back, that would be around 57lb/PCF....

I hope i'm thinking on the right lines here, and whether this helps at all i'm not sure. Still, it was fun.

that's cool math. thumbs up!

[Guitars by Jake]

Drak... As far as being a seasoned luthier, I certainly feel that noone should judge their own merit. So I will not. But on your advice, which I fully agree, I don't plan on using this board to create a series of heavy guitars. I WILL buid one, just cause I cant help it. The rest of the wood will go to chambered bodies, or neck splices and the such.( nothing goes to waste in my shop!) But Ill tell you one thing, My common sense tells me that this is some heavy stuff! (Might make a great table top!)

[SD83]

any body here build/play heavy guitars?

Depends on what you mean by "heavy". I agree with Keegan, 8-9 seems comfortable to me, maybe up to 10. If you look like Kerry King, I guess 12 or 14 would be no problem either I just finished a maple baritone, just over 7 lbs and it feels like a toy to me. On a strap it feels like it weights nothing at all. I guess I'm one of those who want to "feel" the instrument...

[SJE-Guitars]

I've never made a guitar that weighs less than 9.5lbs . . . in all honesty it's pretty much impossible to make one weighing less with the woods available in this part of the world.

[westhemann]

The problem with asking this question is that you don't get honest responses because of the nature of a man's psyche.

Most guys think it is a matter of pride to haul around a heavy guitar,as if it somehow makes them tougher to do so.They always quote height and weight at you as if to somehow say "Look how tough I am...I could carry a 40 pound guitar through an 18 hour show if needed..."

Kerry King plays Warlocks and Vees...They weigh about 9 pounds for the warlock...about 7 pounds for the V.

One thing you notice(if you pay attention) is that the more strain a man's back is under,the sooner it goes bad...The heavier a guy is,the sooner it goes out,so the whole "I weigh 245,I am impervious to guitar weight" theory is B.S.

Something else to think about...if you have a belly,then when you strap on a guitar your guitar is further from your center of mass,creating more leverage against your back,thereby increasing strain...

My main guitar is a V...weighs about 5 pounds...and I have no belly to speak of so strapping it on to play(I am always standing when I play)is like holding nothing...that is the way it should be.

Alder is one of the most often used woods in any style of music...it is also very light....tone does not depend on weight.

[NotYou]

The problem with asking this question is that you don't get honest responses because of the nature of a man's psyche.

Most guys think it is a matter of pride to haul around a heavy guitar,as if it somehow makes them tougher to do so.They always quote height and weight at you as if to somehow say "Look how tough I am...I could carry a 40 pound guitar through an 18 hour show if needed..."

One thing you notice(if you pay attention) is that the more strain a man's back is under,the sooner it goes bad...The heavier a guy is,the sooner it goes out,so the whole "I weigh 245,I am impervious to guitar weight" theory is B.S.

LOL, sounds like you're talking about my post.

I was being serious though. Unless he's fat, a guy that weighs 240lbs is going to be able to carry a 10lb guitar a lot easier than guy who weighs like 160lbs. It's nothing about being macho, it's just proportion. I like guitars to be a bit on the heavy side because they just feel more solid when strapped on. Nothing else.

I mentioned redwood earlier. I've never been more excited about a guitar than the redwood one I'm building right now. It's total weight will likely be way less than 8 pounds, even though it's almost two inches thick. Tonally, I expect it to blow away everything else I've done so far.

[ihocky2]

Your weight comparison is not about proportion either though. 160 lb guy and a 240 pound guy with the same type of build and height are going to be two different men in strength. I'm not saying that all heavier men can and should play heavier guitars. But a 175 athlete is going to haul around that weight easier and less noticably than a 225 lb weekend warrior.

[Daniel Sorbera]

I agree with what Drak said. I would never use wood that I thought would result in a guitar that's heavier or lighter than what I'm going for in the final product.

This becomes even more important when the customer has very specific desires. For example I've built a lot of guitars with varying weights from a 4lb mahogany single cut to a wenge double cut that was a bit over 10lb and they all sounded amazing. But the lighter guitars were *much* easier to play for long periods of time without fatigue. I warned the customer that the solid wenge guitar he was asking for would weigh 10-15lbs but he said that's exactly what he wanted and he was thrilled with the end result.

I didn't notice any less sustain in the 4lb guitar from the 10lb one. If anything, the lighter guitar was slightly louder and more resonant unplugged, but the sustain was so similar plugged in that you could contribute it to the other design differences and not the weight.

You should be more worried about building the guitar you want to, taking weight into consideration more for comfort and less for tone.

.02

[westhemann]

I just mean that if you want to feel strong,lift weights...with proper back support...

Pick a nice light and comfy guitar to play on stage...in the studio you can sit down and play whatever...

I record with an LP studio...because it records better...I play and practice with my V

[westhemann]

Not to get too far off topic,but it is not about the muscle mass you carry all by itself...It's more about the percentage of muscle mass you can recruit for use...

Ever meet a smaller guy who is stronger than a guy who looks much stronger?Chances are he is recruiting more of his muscle than the other guy...